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    Homeowner angry at Viesmann (107 Posts)

  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 9:35 PM
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    Service Mans Kit ..

    Triangle tube has a very nice "Service man's kit" I've used it the other night on a midnight call.It is worth every penny for the Grand that i payed for this kit, The customer had heat in not time (Blower was broke)This was on a Saturday after they came from the ski slopes, so no part's until Monday or Tuesday .... I've asked The big "B" on multiple occasions and the answer was that they do not see being able to sell this for the American market>>> Too expensive<<<. so even i do not sell there product anymore. i still have a blower and some Small parts.As per the baxi I've made my own Kit.Well and as i said before i have one TT...and One Baxi Luna as spear boilers in a "Display Trailer".Because that is what i do....Sell/Service comfort systems ... The Heatmeister.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 9:16 AM
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    MPF,Italian HP never heard of this Company? HM.
  • N/A @ 9:42 AM

    Fancy Italian Heatpump...

    I've already bored most of these guys to tears with it but: There is a US site, click on the US flag lower right. Gas Absorption Heat Pump. Various products. I installed 2 GAHP-AR here in CT. I may see some case studies soon. So I hear. Assembled in Italy with parts from the US that were probably assembled in Mexico. ;) I met the engineers at ASHREX in NYC. Smart people. Very receptive to even the craziest of my ideas. LOL... This link will take you right there: What you REALLY want to do is walk into Viessmann's showroom in Warwick with your clients and tell Viessmann about 1/2 way through the tour that you're interested in a lot of their products but might not be using a Viessmann boiler. That'll get the feathers flyin'!! Hee heeeee...
  • Rob Blair Rob Blair @ 9:02 PM
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    Sorry but ...

    I couldn't help posting just to take the count up to 100!!! Rob
  • mtfallsmikey mtfallsmikey @ 8:38 AM
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    Forgive me, Bob!

    Didn't mess with too many Lennox's til the later years...they were in almost every home in the Front Royal / Strasburg Va. area at one time..and I did keep a belt for those. They were like the Thermo-Pride brand, built like a tank! IMHO, one of the smoothest running quiet scorched air furnaces ever made.
  • GLENN GLENN @ 12:14 PM
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    I have been reading this thread with some amusement. It is something to see the "blame game" going on here. So many of you want to buy direct insted of dealing with the Wholesalers and you question what value they add. First you should try and contact the average manufacturer. Can you get someone??? Now try this with all contractors calling direct. The result?? No one getting anything done. What value does the wholesaler add to the product lines??? Training on the products they support, Tech help for the products they support, and yes parts inventory for the products they suppport. If the wholesaler is refusing to stock parts then you should get after them to get their inventories in order. If you are dealing with this wholesaler because their price is the lowest then welcome to the world of "walmart" wholesalers. You can't have it all. Lowest prices, best quality and best service. You will always get only two out of three. So pick what you want. The homeoner who started this has every right to be upset over the dilema they were placed in. I wonder if the wholesaler and manufacturer have shown this to their "people" to act as a training exercise for how "NOT" to take care of their customers in the future?
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 9:25 AM
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    Mtfallsmikey, Your "Service Suitcase with:RA117, RA832,R8184,L4064, right/left Sunstrand "J" pumps, shaft couplings, burner motors, 1/3 hp blower motor, some belts, nozzles, couple of universal Honeywell gas valves,thermocouples, nozzles,electrodes, Dongan Multi-Former, even an old Detroit Lubricator strap-on high limit control for the "special" occasions. MAY need a upgrade if you "Don't want to fade away". Or do you think that if you take a "386"/Commodore Computer in of repair some one would actually fix it.BTW do not get rid of those parts, I've got some of those to. Good to have....Just pick a line and try to stick with it..Everything is getting specialized/More Expensive i know.. HM.
  • Timco Timco @ 7:10 PM
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    All I know is that when I needed a controller for a top end Mestek boiler that was going into lockout (NOT a no-heat situation, cust could reset boiler) Mestek sent me the controller DIRECT to my house, no BS, PO's or mark-ups via supply houses. (part was still under warranty) Must have a different policy... Tim
    Working on steam and hot-water systems isn't rocket's actually much harder.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 10:17 AM
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    MPF..And that is why I as a "little Guy" Stock Three "spare" Boilers.
  • gary gary @ 3:06 PM
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    Couldn't agree more. If you're gonna be installing the unit and this is the product line you're going to be pushing to your customers, it makes sense to have spare parts available. I guess commen sense died a long time ago.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 8:48 AM
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    MPF.His contractor apparently has 20 Viessmanns Installed.
  • N/A @ 9:09 AM


  • mtfallsmikey mtfallsmikey @ 6:45 AM
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    Time for .02 from The Geezer

    My, how times have changed..My old "suitcase": RA117, RA832,R8184,L4064, right/left Sunstrand "J" pumps, shaft couplings, burner motors, 1/3 hp blower motor, some belts, nozzles, couple of universal Honeywell gas valves,thermocouples, nozzles,electrodes, Dongan Multi-Former, even an old Detroit Lubricator strap-on high limit control for the "special" occasions. Very few customers went without heat,not many that I couldn't make run.
  • gary gary @ 7:31 AM
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    But look at all the money he's saving by having this state of the art boiler that you must get parts Fed ex'ed in and many techs have difficulty working on it. Just disregard the 600 bucks for the gas valve, 200 in fire wood, 100 in space heaters. AND 130 hours with No Heat. Heaven Forbid if the ignition system goes.... Whoops there goes another 600 out the window and several days without heat.
  • Bob Bona Bob Bona @ 7:16 AM
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    forget the Lennox sewing machine pump belt :)
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 10:28 AM
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    g,Do you drive a 427 Mach 1 every day? How about that 386/commodore computer?..Modcon Boiler(reliable ones like Viessmann/TT) have not been in The US very long now!!So most of the"Plumbers"( Not the ones that are on the "Wall" of course) do not understand or have the proper training/parts. Therefore we get what we got here today:What we go here a failure to communicate! Or: Ask not what your Country can do for you...Ask what you can do for your country... Which in my case is to "Clean it up" and try to get off of as much fossil burning as possible/ Feasible. That is a Hard task trying not to offend or step on someones feet. Just wait a couple years loose those savings now then jump on that wagon..PS: Fuel Pricing will drive you to do it!Thank you, Richard GRAVES from Heatmeister.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 5:11 PM
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    Ahhhh Old school.Nothing wrong with that!!But again ,Sooner or later(more sooner) some of the "dinosaurs" will disappear I have seen it in europa,Fuel cost. HM.
  • MPF: My contractor currently has 28 Viessmann systems installed; mine was around the 20th he'd done. When building the house, I specified that I wanted hydronic heat. The contractor suggested Viessmann. I researched systems, and agreed to his decision. I did question his expertise, saw systems he'd previously installed, and did ask about his maintaining common repair parts on hand. For the umpteenth time, he'd never had a gas valve fail, hence didn't have one on-hand. He has also requested of Viessmann several times that they offer contractors (through their distributors) a "suitcase" assortment of most common repair parts based on Viessmann's repair and replacement experience. None is offered.
  • N/A @ 2:46 PM


    "For the umpteenth time, he'd never had a gas valve fail, hence didn't have one on-hand" For the umpteenth time, that's no excuse or at least a poor one. "He has also requested of Viessmann several times that they offer contractors (through their distributors) a "suitcase" assortment of most common repair parts based on Viessmann's repair and replacement experience. None is offered." He can't make up his own? You go ahead and feel whatever way you want to, I'll make sure I have the right parts on the shelf or they are readily available so MY customers are covered.
  • Mark Hunt Mark Hunt @ 1:27 AM
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    You really won some fans with that post. I can tell it was from the heart too.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 11:33 AM
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    Mike D yes i can agree with that to. but also we are in the Service industrie which means that Especially when something goes wrong with one of the systems that we installed we should be there to fix it.Which means that we Support Viessmann (In this Chase).So i Just Stock one or two "Spare Boilers" that: #1 I use as a Trainings tool. #2 As a Sales Tool. #3 As a emergency heating unit in a trailer. #4 As a parts Boiler. I also do this with the two other boilers that i Support (Triangle and Baxi luna).That means that if anything ,and i mean anything goes wrong with one of my boilers i will have the part available that Fri night not on Monday! Just think about it this way : you get stuck on the side of the road ,A tow truck comes and does not tow you out of there because he has to order a chain first to hook you up . It's Friday so he cannot get the chain until Monday. Monday comes around the chain is not Available localy so they order it!. The chain arrives the next day. then he tows you out of there. to make thing's worse you where on Vac. with your Fam. going across the USA. stuck in a small town. not at the Grand canyon."Do you think this towing comp. should be in business with out a chain? some thing applies to some "Heating" Contractors.!I am not saying everybody should go thru the extremes of having a spare boiler ! but at least inform your self of which parts it is that you should have on your truck .. I also have Common spare parts for Common boilers..Lot's of Honeywell. Just think about it! Richard from Heatmeister.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 4:19 PM
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    g Are you a Home owner or a heating Contractor ?
  • gary gary @ 4:59 PM
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    I was a heating contractor. Retired.
  • Brad White Brad White @ 2:21 AM
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    I Hate (Fill-in-the-blank).com

    The originator of that site could have inserted any name and had a similar story.... anything mechanical can fail. Personally, I find Viessmann to be a superior product and their service as good as anyone's, better than most. Add to this their training, allowing an owner to maximize their benefit. The comment about $90 for firewood used over 132 hours in conjunction with space heater output tells me that there are other issues if not an agenda at work here. I don't think Joan of Arc whined that much on the stake.... My $0.02 Brad
  • gary gary @ 11:56 AM
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    Of course I had some breakdowns with my oil boiler. Anything mechnical can breakdown. Would I have to get a Nozzle Fed Ex'ed to get my boiler working?? Would I have to get a new set of electrodes or transformer Fed Ex'ed??? If I had gas heat and had a basic standing pilot gas valve and it malfunctioned would I have to Fed Ex one in??? Why buy a heating system that parts must be UPS'ed in??? 500 bucks for a gas valve, plus all the aggrevation. Where's all your savings in effeciency??? Give me a heating system that when it's 11 PM, temperature is 10 degrees and the service tech has the parts on his truck or will have the part once the shop opens in the morning. And the tech knows how to repair the unit. Why would I want a heating system that allot of techs don't know how to work on it???
  • Paul Pollets Paul Pollets @ 1:47 PM
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    no matter what part, no matter what boiler, some are just "not in stock", and require shipping. I've had to order parts for every major boiler manufacturer. Standing pilots aren't allowed in most states anymore...they waste too much energy. There are 48 wall hung boilers, at last count, available in N. America. Most techs have a familiarity with 1 or 2 types. Servicing any others will most likely require tech services of that particular company. "Reliable" is the key, and an oxymoron, in some cases. As the technology increases, the complexity increases. Mechanical (or circuitry component) failure is inevitible. I too would like every heating system to use the same parts that are on every tech's truck. That's very unlikely. And no service truck carries ALL parts for ALL equipment. BTW, the energy efficiency comes from the boiler's modulation. It has nothing to do with a defective part. What if your oil burner required an oil pump that wasn't available locally? I've had it happen, and live in a major city. To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Ross Ross @ 10:37 AM
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    No one..

    should be without heat for that long. No matter what brand of furnace, boiler, or otherwise. I can understand the homeowner's frustration. I don't think he needs to create a website stating that fact, but it is a free country. Ross
  • N/A @ 5:40 AM

    Good one!

    "I don't think Joan of Arc whined that much on the stake...." LOL, couldn't have said it better myself! Also good to hear a few dissenting opinions as I believe I'll be working with Viessmann more closely in the near future. ;)
  • Todd S Todd S @ 8:24 AM
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    I hear you

    Its like that other time the I had a light bulb burnout and the CEO of GE wouldn't call me back. I called demanding to speak to someone higher up and I wanted a warranty! I ended up burning candles for a week while I was waiting for a new light bulb. None of the local stores had them in stock and the sparky I was dealing with didn't have them either, he said that to keep his overhead down he couldn't possibly stock things like this.
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 8:10 PM
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    Ever see a broke down Roll's on the side of the Road? HM.
  • Mark Hunt Mark Hunt @ 10:11 PM
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    But I have never seen one running on the road where I live. How many John Deer tractors have you seen on the side of the roads where you live? Must be John Deer is as good as a Rolls?
  • Tony Tony @ 8:48 AM
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    John Deere is BETTER than a Rolls :) 4x4, AC & heated cab, stereo, nice bucket seat, good view. Not the fastest ride, but able to take "shortcuts" :)
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 12:48 PM
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    Yes maybe it was Stretched a bit or the house is Loose.Or the fire place is a bad Design ,Who knows? The thing is that the End user of this Boiler is P.O. and you cannot blame them for that,I would be too. But then again you can also look at the "Non supporting Orig. Installer".IF this happened on a Friday at 18:00 .Then he still would have to wait until Monday to order the part. Maybe have it that day or the next day,SOOOO regardless the Customer would be with out heat and HOT H2O for at least 3 to 4 days because he(The Orig.installer) is to "Cheap" to stock that gasv.!!!Think about it and i bet that there are some Service Industries that can preform in a "Jiffy" i.e. Emergency Service.EMT'S. Police. Electrical Conedison.BTW Did someones life depend on it?I guess it is up to us to stock the parts for the boiler's that we Support!!Think about it! Richard from Heatmeister. HM.
  • Bob Bob @ 11:09 AM
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    Viesmann parts problem

    Interesting read: What are other contrcators finding with parts availability? Bob
  • Steve Eayrs Steve Eayrs @ 10:39 PM
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    couldn't dissagree more....

    Veissmann has possibly the best tech support and response time on parts of any company out there. Makes me wonder what the real problem is. Steve
  • Bruce M Bruce M @ 3:53 PM
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    Premium Priced Boiler

    If you buy a premium priced boiler you are entitled to expect premium service and parts availability. With the amazing ability of the Google search engine, those manufactuers that provide poor parts availability and rude customer service, do so at their own peril.
  • Tombig Tombig @ 3:16 PM
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    For Those Who Speak German

    Sie sind ein alberner Godemichť!!!
  • Jim Jim @ 3:22 PM
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    is Klassisch!
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 10:50 PM
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    wat zur hoelle is dat

    Hey Pete, meinste jeder kann dein kauderwelch verstehen??? Wo kommst denn Du her?? what fuer ein dorf spricht denn diese sprache?? Wie waere es mit ein bisschen Hochdeutsch ??? Mann wohnt doch in einer guten Nachbarschaft. Hoch lebe Viessmann, Graevenwiesbach und Koelle.. OK ok....sorry, nur ein kleiner Scherz am Rande!
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 11:43 AM
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    Bob,this issue has been discussed before, I am finding that there is a lack or disinterest coming from some of the Manufactures/Distribution companies in the Heating industrie!!! As per viessmann and Triangle Tube, i've not had any mayor problems. I think that some Manuf.(and i am not naming them.since they have not P... me off so much anymore ,And i am no longer installing there Product!) Need to think about the supply and distr. of "Their"spare parts!ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS SALE LOTS OF BOILERS ! Maybe they need to look at the automotive industry The spare parts supply works pretty good on their side! AS per now the way to handle this is to Buy a "Spare boiler" as a parts Robbing boiler and it also can be a training/Sales tool, That's what i am doing for now with the boilers that i like ,Support, Service and Install. Good Luck with the Dead Capital around the shop, At least you are supporting the customer on a Saturday Night. Just pass the buck on. Diff. your self from all the"None supporting Installers". And the good word will spread! Richard from Heatmeister.
  • Constantin Constantin @ 10:13 PM
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    Allow me to disagree...

    ... I have dealt with Viessmann as a HO on a number of occasions, including instances where Ed and I needed help re: diagnosing an issue we were having when we were servicing the Vitola together. The gentleman on the other end of the line had no idea who we were, whether we'd had any training, etc. But it was very apparent that he was not reading off a script, he was very polite, and we resolved our question in little time. When I compare my experience with Viessmann I feel downright spoiled. I spent an hour today on the phone with Logitech over a bad software implementation that failed to work on my computer. In the end, they had to admit that their Java implementation was bad (i.e. bad QC) followed by admitting that their "updating" mechanism was bad also since it tried to break the security rules imposed by the OS. So, while I feel for the HO who went without heat for 132 hours, all equipment can and will break. If it happens to be a weekend, then regardless of brand, you might find yourself in a pickle. As a contractor, you're stock is only as good as your suppliers'. If the supplier does not keep stock, then it's up to you to do so. Yes, it costs money. Yes, it's money tied up. But if it saves one customer relationship, it was worth the money.
  • DJ DJ @ 1:16 AM
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    This was fun, I have never posted on here before, and didnt think much of my comments, until I got home to check my email, and discovered people cared about my comment. Lots of fun. Anyway, I understand ALL equipment breaks, and I know that some of Viessmanns guys are really good, (The Canadians) but the attitude is just annoying after a while. It is a superior product in general, just wish their staff didnt feel superior too. I hope to read alot more and post more on "The Wall" Later
  • Kelly Kelly @ 12:32 PM
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    If Viessmann are so freaking great and you only own one, why do you have to contact them so freaking much? Did they sell you a lemon? Shouldn't your install been cut and dry? How many problems have you really had, please come clean!
  • Constantin Constantin @ 8:57 PM
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    When it comes to tech support, I've only made calls for two issues that I can remember. 1) Called them up to get two Vitosol tubes replaced that had been damaged in shipping. Not Viessmanns fault and the replacements were here in less than a week (came from England via Canada, IIRC). 2) Called Warwick once when Ed was over to service the boiler (this was his first Vitola / Viessmann) and tech support walked him through part of the procedure. I subsequently called to inquire about local supply houses that I could order replacement parts at, if I or my Ed needed them. Doesn't seem too excessive. Perhaps that's why I have been happy with the company and the support they have provided. Lastly, how about posting under a real name and e-mail address? That, and the tone of your post, unfortunately seems to imply that you have an agenda.
  • Home Depot Employee Home Depot Employee @ 1:59 PM
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    In one point you are saying Viessmann is slow in shipping out, yet you don't stock either. Lose-Lose situation there. All equipment will have problems, DOA's and defects. The most important part of a distributors choice in carrying a HVAC line is to support the equipment. Let's face it too many times they focus in on the equipment, but in the end the equipment sellers that make the small additional investment in parts will win the contractors loyalty. Everything has it's limits and and I understand some distributors are small and cannot afford to but, then their other services best be exemplary.
  • N/A @ 1:41 PM

    You couldn't possibly burn two cords of wood in five days in a fireplace. It doesn't burn fast enough to do that. A cord of wood is a lot: we used to burn 4 cord A WINTER as primary heat in an old, leaky farmhouse. that said, at the end of the article he says he burned "$90" of firewood, which is a lot less than two cord.
  • Scott Scott @ 2:14 PM
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    I've never heard the term \"face cord\"

    Is it possible he means one row of the front ?? 4 x 4 - one row ? I've never heard the term but It could be. Scott To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • N/A @ 2:20 PM

    I missed that "face", thanks Scott. Cord is 4 x 8 x 4. Face cord is anything less than that, 4x8xless than 4, according to some googling.
  • Tony Tony @ 8:49 PM
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    Face cord

    One length (ex. 18") x 4x8
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 12:32 PM
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    Paul, what about" why I love/like or "Got Viessmann"? . Or since the older boilers were Orange: Oraange you glad you have heat?
  • Paul Pollets Paul Pollets @ 3:04 PM
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    The continuing story...

    I corresponded with the poster about the problem and referred the posts and website to Harald Prell at Viessmann for review. The poster has a valid complaint about the supply chain. Viessmann should address the problem. I still remain passionate about the company, tech support and products. Repair parts will always be required for any modern appliance. Like you, I've attempted to stock what I can to minimize disruption in service. I have my own issues about setting up "non-stocking" distributors, but that is a different subject. To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • gary gary @ 9:49 AM
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    When I here stories like this I'm happy I stuck with oil heat. If I ever switched to gas I would get me a nice dependable standing pilot with a basic gas valve. I rather pay a little more each year than get a heating unit that you have to get parts Fed Ex'ed. Even 1 day without heat is to much.
  • Scott Scott @ 10:06 AM
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    So G

    Nevere had a clogged nozzle ? Never had a clogged filter ? Never had a nozzle pick up some dirt and fire off to the side of the chamber ? Never had the motor die ? There are problems with all systems not just gas. ITs how the problem is resolved that makes the difference. In this case nobody stayed on top the of the probelm and let it slide. Thats my opinion. Scott To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Todd S Todd S @ 7:43 AM
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    I tried to call the CEO of Ford because I needed a part for my car. I found it was bad on a Friday when I was leaving for a trip. I had to rent a car and he wouldn't call me back.
  • N/A @ 7:58 AM

    That SOB!

    I'd complain...
  • schiller schiller @ 7:54 AM
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    we service "Bill's" house I'll let him know that he should return your call asap. hold your breath
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 1:22 PM
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    Scott.Good for you and you Customers!!That means that you are supporting the products that you install.That's great! HM.
  • joel joel @ 5:37 PM
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    wholesaler?? Contractor??

    The big culprit here is the wholesaler I call them Transfer houses. This is a problem with EVERY product i sell both domestic and foreign. The wholesalers simply refuse to carry parts. I can't even get alot of parts for gas hot air furnaces,although the transfer house will gladly ship me 10 furnaces tomorrow. On A/C systems we couldn't get condensor fans that where in warrantee. There are two solutions 1: Contractors you should simply REFUSE to purchase your equipment from transfer houses that do not stock parts. 2.Manufacturers MUST REQUIRE that the transfer house have parts for what they sell. Pressure from both parties will force the transfer houses into doing the right thing. Transfer houses quit your endless crying about having to turn your inventory your telling me you stock 200 boilers and yet you can't have 1 of each part when many of those parts fit several sizes of boiler EX. ignitor,rollout switch etc. If you really don't have the money then fine stock 100 boilers and spend the rest on parts!!!!!. Years ago parts where not a problem and you guys made plenty of money why now in the last 5 years have the parts dissapeared????
  • deville deville @ 6:32 PM
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    I agree to disgree

    Joel you are a 100% right but it will never happen, the minority would migrate to the distributor who charged more and supported the products by stocking parts, but the majority would go still go for the price and let someone else deal with the parts later. The distributor climate of the big getting bigger and the small getting bought is only making this worse, when the distributor carries five different boilers lines and has the attitude of " we have that too " it doesn't look good. Maybe we will see things go full circle and start to see small mom and pop distributors come back to life where they only one main line, a back up line and supported the products they sold. Imagine going into a distributor with a and having them solve your problem instead of giving you the Reps number. I know there are still a few out there that do have really good inside people who are savvy with the products they sell but they are becoming few and far between.
  • marc marc @ 9:37 PM
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    \"stocking Wholesaler\"

    Dan, You have some interesting points. We almost exclusively install Viessmann and have been for over 5 years. Unfortunately I feel the blame falls on the NON-stocking wholesaler's! We work with the big "F" They refuse to stock anything with Viessmann on the label! Viessmann is great about getting the parts out ASAP, all the wholesaler has to do is ask for it. This is a constant battle with us and the wholesaler. I dont believe Viessmann has mis-represented themselves, they have the parts in-stock and are always willing to ship ASAP with "no-heat" situations. Marc
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 1:43 PM
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    Home depot emp.

    Not only do i have the " Service man's Kit".I have a Spare 110 Prestige at the Shop.DITTO that in the Viessmann and the Baxi luna. And many,many $$$ invested in "Common" spare parts for other boilers To.!!
  • Justin Justin @ 2:01 PM
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    THat is def great to have cause it only can help in the long run. we have a riello kit i think everyone should have. due to riello parts being all of there own!
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 12:20 PM
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    2 face cords of wood in three days' time?

    Seems the truth gets stretched a wee bit.
  • Scott Scott @ 12:59 PM
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    I have

    never allowed a customer to go that long with out heat ?? Something is not right here. Maybe over night .... never three or four days. Scott To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • N/A @ 8:15 AM


    Figuring I should practice what I preach I called my supplier on those fancy Italian HPs. He says, "Yes I have everything but it's all generic stuff anyways." Don't that give you the warm fuzzies? ;)
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 2:24 PM
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    won't name names, but

    one mfgr agreed to fully stock a favorite wholesaler with parts and take it all back with full credit for 24-hours to get past the been-countin inventory turn-penalties. Paper transfer. If it ain't in inventory there ain't no steenkin penalties(G). Anudder one provided the initial inventory of replacement parts on consignment.
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 1:51 PM
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    turn ratio

    Round here, local wholesale houses pay a penalty for any items in their inventory that don't "turn". One of the primary reasons why we get frustrated by the lack of parts they stock.
  • Justin Justin @ 1:52 PM
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    Ya for us anything that doesnt sell gos into what we call IOV or Inventory Over Valvue and we pay a penlty to the bak every month!
  • John Starcher John Starcher @ 1:53 PM
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    And that's why.....

    ....wholesalers should be run by fomer field guys instead of bean counters!
  • Justin Justin @ 1:58 PM
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    The purchasing agent Yes should come from the field but with counterguys exsperience is a plus.
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 1:49 PM
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    That's why we maintain an inventory of small room heaters to loan out if parts aren't available. I understand the frustration those folks experienced and even if only half of it is 100% factual, it's still an unacceptable set of circumstances. However, reading between the lines, it seems like just about everyone involved dropped the ball.
  • N/A @ 2:36 PM

    Doesn't say,,,

    If the "local HVAC contractor" was the original installer. If not I wouldn't expect them to have the valve. If I was the homeowner I would have been on the phone looking for another contractor in the area that specializes in Viessman and maybe even has the part in stock. There could have very well been one hanging around in the local area at some other shop. Meanwhile, I've got a restaurant that hasn't had heat in the kitchen for over a week now. They're fighting with the landlord over who pays the bill. Friday afternoon, 2:30, still waiting for a decision. Yes, they have all my electric heaters... Hope nobody elses heat goes out, I'll have to buy more heaters. LOL!
  • The Question Man The Question Man @ 2:53 PM
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    Question for Post Originator

    Dear: Robert Davison 10905 Jolly Way Kensington, MD United States 20895 Cell Phone: (240) 793 - 0329 Email Address: What is your beef with Viessmann, you have never posted before on this site. If you want to promote your website, pay to advertize like the rest of us!
  • DJ DJ @ 3:08 PM
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    Classic Viessmann Attitude

    After reading the posting I have to agree with the Homeowner. It was not just the fact that the parts were impossible to get or that there was miscommunication throughout the process, it was the fact that Viessmann does not condesend to speak to a homeowner. I understand if that is an inside company policy, but its not something you TELL to the homeowner!! If they had been apathetic and explained things properly it would have been much easier to swallow. I have dealt with Viessmann for quite some time and they are arrogant, rude, and unresponsive.
  • Steve Eayrs Steve Eayrs @ 2:32 PM
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    somethings wrong with the picture!

    When talking about Veissmann, I have found their response is the best. Always a direct line to a tech if we're stumped, and we can expect parts, if needed, at our door with a day, or two at the most. Of course its air freight, up here thats to be expected. And the more complex the parts on any of these systems, the more chances you will not find them in a local parts store. We don't have a local store anyway. Closest place is 80 miles up the road. Keep what we can in stock, but count on the excellent services of companies like Veissmann to respond fast. If your a valid contractor you have access to a direct line w/ Veissmann, and won't be waiting for some counter guy somewhere to get it thru his regular slow system. There plenty of companies I could mention that could warrant some complaining about tech and parts support, but not Veissmann. Steve
  • Paul Pollets Paul Pollets @ 3:20 PM
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    I've been doing Viessmann boilers for 15 years. Nobody beats their tech services. Any parts that aren't locally stocked, we receive overnight. The boiler parts (other than the HX) are warranted for 2 years. The gas valve should have been installed with a replacement part provided by Viessmann, free of charge, providing the RGA form was filled out by the contractor. That the homeowner would set up a website bashing Viessmann is in very poor taste. I've had far more difficult warranty problems with other manufacturers. To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • JackR JackR @ 3:28 PM
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    The big V is far easy to deal with, the one thing I learned in dealing with them is that they are never wrong. It was always someone else's fault when something failed, always. Never again will I go towards the light.
  • Justin Justin @ 2:13 PM
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    I agree totally but in the market up here we sell the VR1 oil boilers that really it for Viessman because alot of contractors out there are not update to understand most of what viessman offers. Not to mention the Economy bein Horrid homeowerns cant afford the best. I sell a ton of baxi's though
  • Dave Stroman Dave Stroman @ 1:39 PM
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    When I started installing mod/cons, a local supplier put together a "tool box" of all the usual repair parts for that brand of boiler. They teamed with the manufacturer and gave a good deal if you bought the whole kit. I always carry it in my truck. I have have to use a fan switch, ignitor, ignition control, and one time the main control. It was an easy fix and was so glad to have the part on hand. The kit also has the blower, gas valve, all the gaskets, even a wiring harness. I have never had to use them. There is nothing worse for me to get a call after hours about a boiler that is down, and know that I do not have the repair parts. I am now adding another boiler line and will pick up the kit for that one also. Dave Stroman, Denver
    Dave Stroman
  • Home Depot Employee Home Depot Employee @ 1:33 PM
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    Most often this is the fault of the distributor/wholesaler. They don't make the parts investment but also, donít make the effort to find out which to carry because manufacturers arenít to clear on whatís needed or been superseded lately. The rest falls on the contractor, and their equipment choices made. Thatís why it makes sense to stick to favorite brand and make a valiant attempt to stock common parts for the units. Example-Those of you that like and installed the Prestige for example, how many of you have their parts briefcase on hand?
  • Justin Justin @ 1:46 PM
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    agree to disagree

    i agree with what you other guys are saying. How Ever i am a heating distributor in new hampshire that sells Viessmann and Can tell you first hand Unless something is Next Day Aired Viessmann takes 2-3 to ship out/and a day or two to ship any parts. So In emergancy how do you exspect a distributor to stock all the parks for everyboiler, no to mention with today economy its almost impossible. You can only stock so much.
  • jp jp @ 1:11 PM
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    ship via airlines

    when it was critical to have parts, we'd run parts to the airport so the customer could have parts in hours across the country.
  • N/A @ 9:34 PM

    No but...

    I saw a Mercedes smashed into a Jaguar once. Palm Beach, where else? ;)
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 5:44 PM
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    Good conversation.

    And it's clear that this is frustrating for you. Along the same lines, would you say that a contractor should stock at least one of each part for the brand of boilers he sells?
    Site Administrator

    Hug your kids.
  • N/A @ 5:54 PM

    I'd say...

    yes if he knows getting parts might be a problem for that boiler. Which is something he should check into before commiting to the product. You can be darn sure that was one of my questions when I was getting involved with that Italian HP. Turns out all the parts for it are made here in the US. They just assemble them in italy.
  • joel joel @ 10:32 PM
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    Yes Dan

    I agree kind of.... and we do stock ALOT of parts the vitodens gas valve in question is probably on our shelf along with a jillion other little parts for it. I also have everything for the chassis burner and most everything for Triangle Tube. The real question is WHY???? Why can autoparts stores carry most anything or get it virtually overnight and make a profit and a Transfer House says it is impossable? "Not for foreign cars" Bull Cucka I say. In my garrage is a 25 yold Datsun 280ZX and I can have virtually any part on that thing on my doorstep in 24HRS. Same thing with my 16 yold 300ZX. Now if my local car service guy doesn't have to stock parts for every type of car he works on why do I local heat guy have to stock parts for every furnasty,boiler and A/C I've ever seen? I layed on the floor of a clients house all night because i couldn't get a gas valve but could keep it relighting by banging it with a wrench. It was an AMERICAN boiler a BLUE one. Keep in mind this is Eastern Mass and how many transfer houses are there???? Thousands of BLUE boilers in a 3o mile radius neatly stacked in boxes and not one valve. Why couldn't that company have the cojones to say, "Hey transfer house you want 100k in boilers no problem buy 10k in parts to go with it "
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 9:21 AM
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    We carry a huge inventory. I'd rather we didn't because in PA we pay taxes every year on the value of that inventory. But, we do feel an obligation to service what we sell. It's a fine line that's no longer fine - as in thin - it's very fat and growing by leaps and bounds. Time was we never had to leave someone without heating or air conditioning, but as you know all of the equipment (or almost all) has evolved from simple parts to complicated components with lots of circuit boards and/or computerized component controllers. We no longer work in a plyers/4-way-screwdriver/flashlight mechanical-component diagnostic-world: it's a digital analyzer(s) highly-technical chasing-electrons that operate mechanical-components (often micro-sized on PC boards - as in - not repairable/replaceable components) technician's world. Those who chose to stick with the old technology, thinking this new-fangled stuff would be a fad, have been left in the dust. The one-size-fits-all gas valve can serve as just one of many examples of how the mechanical/electronic marriage has caused our inventory to mushroom. Our business is 108 years young & there are items in our inventory with century-old dust on them. So, we maintain an inventory of small electric heaters and window A/C units to tide customers over until we can have parts air-freighted for next-day delivery. We are a service firm, so we see lots of equipment we don't sell too. No one can afford to stock every part required to maintain everything they service unless they choose to specialize and focus on a narrow segment of what consumers purchase or have installed in their homes and businesses. Supply houses have, in many cases, stockholders to answer to at years end. They are a business that needs to be profitable and I understand the "turn" thing. Doesn't mean I'm not frustrated by the lack of inventory - I often am. Fortunately, the Internet has provided all of us the means to by-pass snail-like chains of communication and forge lines of communication that often lead directly to folks who can expidite parts - and then bill those parts through our local wholesalers so that the line of distribution for the money-chain is not disrupted. This thread has been interesting and as you & I saw, first hand, at the Viessmann factory in Germany, their ability to pull and ship parts is state of the art and incredibly fast. Something went horribly wrong in the chain of communication in this case and exactly what or who is responsible isn't clear, yet Viessmann is being singled out for the target. My own personal experience with them runs contrary to this gent's experience. An old saw about honey, flies & vinegar comes to mind.
  • N/A @ 7:53 AM

    Parts wholesalers...

    It's all a bean counter's game these days. If the computer says your particular part doesn't get sold very often it won't be held in stock. All wholesalers have been trimming their inventories for years now. Things you would think should be on the shelf because they seem like such a common thing are no longer readily available because the wholesaler doesn't want to tie up his money in a part that will sit there for years before it actually sells. For example, I know a place that makes a felt pen mark on parts boxes every year when they inventory. I got a specific style of thermostat from them once that had 11 pen marks on the box. That part had been on their shelf for 11+ years. So I don't like it anymore than anyone else but you can't blame them. It's just the way things are being done now. The days of a wholesaler keeping one of everything in stock "just in case" are gone. If your contractor is worth his salt, he bought two of them.
  • JackR JackR @ 9:20 AM
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    Spot On

    You are spot on MPF, with the financial institutions playing a major role in inventory it is almost impossible for most distributors to stock heavy on parts, unless they are showing turns. If a part hasn't sold in more than a year the distributor determines it a non moving item and either returns it or makes it non-stock not allowing replenishment. It's sad but true. I used to use some Viessmann, Buderus and other specialty boilers but have really gone back to products I can fix fairly easily with Universal Honeywell parts. My life is a lot less complicated, I'm certainly not busting on Viessmann, they make a good product. It comes back to, " If you buy a Mercedes you have to bring it to a Mercedes dealer, buy a Ford and you can fix it almost anywhere ". Higher end products are always magnificent until they break, that will never change. I'm going through a situation with my Miele dishwasher right now, no one has parts, only one service company in the area and the parts are three weeks out. The unit is only a year old. In the world of the big box distributor this will only get worse, it's all about the turns not the support. Most distributors these days throw everything back on the manufacturer for support but would also scream bloody murder if a manufacturer set up a POS for parts on their website. I miss the days of the local appliance dealer that had a stock room of dusty parts and one part would work on 10 different models. We really are a disposable society
  • Derheatmeister Derheatmeister @ 7:38 PM
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    I've just got of the phone with "whyihateviessmann" .com and must say it's good to hear the other side of the story. He's a nice guy and we talked for about 1 1/2 hr. I think that Viessmann should make contact with him. I Think that everybody just needs to take a deep breath and"Chill".. Richard from Heatmeister.
  • Hey Marc

    Hi Marc So why should you as a contractor have to depend on a non-stocking distributor to get parts? A big part of my beef with Viessmann is that they restrict access to parts ordering to these distributors who don't care enough about the product to stock parts for the field. Wouldn't it be easier for you if you could call or go online with Viessmann and order the parts to be shipped directly to you? That's the way it works in Canada and Germany. What's the point of the distributor in terms of product service? If they don't care enough to either stock parts or properly handle an emergency order, why exactly do they get paid in this distribution channel? Viessmann should either sell and ship parts directly to the contractor OR they should hire a 3rd party company to handle their parts distribution for them. They're trying to run parts through a very inefficient sales channel that's designed to sell complete new boiler systems ... not parts. Again, my point is that only Viessmann can change this system, so it's ultimately Viessmann's problem. Regards, Dan
  • marc marc @ 4:42 PM
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    Dan, Unfortunately this is a problem with most manufacturers. The wholesalers refuse to stock parts for just about any type of boiler!! Heck, they dont even stock parts for installing Hydronic heating systems (pumps, expansion tanks, ect.) I will still put the blame on the wholesaler, UNTIL we can purchase direct from the manufacturers, The US market has the middle man (wholesaler) which frankly does little but place orders and add their %. Marc
  • I just found this site, and ....

    Hello All I was contacted today by Derheatmeister who is a contractor who installs Viessmann systems. During a very pleasant conversation with him, he told me about this site. I didn't start this topic here, so am not "flogging" my website. But I am the HO whose experience is on the site, and I think I have some very legit criticisms of the way Viessmann handles parts. If you bother to look at the site and read the page "Marketing advice to Viessmann" you'll see that I'm not a crank, and that I offer them some very achievable ways to improve their parts distribution that would not only make my life better, it would make YOUR lives as contractors and distributors better. I didn't buy a "world-class" boiler system to have these kinds of problems. You all seem to agree that Viessmann makes great boilers, and I AGREE with that (and say it on my site). That's why I have a Viessmann! But the parts problem is a big problem that needs to be addressed. RE: absurd comparisons to Ford. Would you be steamed if Ford dealers weren't required to carry parts and left you stranded until the parts came from Dearborn, MI? After 5 days of waiting, might you not be tempted to contact Ford and ask where you parts were? Give me a break. I never tried to contact the CEO. I tried to contact sales and marketing staff. RE: contractor not having parts. My HVAC guy is the same one who installed the system in my home. He has some Viessmann parts in stock, but had never had a gas valve fail, so didn't have one. He has repeatedly asked Viessmann's rep and his local distributor if Viessmann could create a parts "suitcase" of essential repair parts, based on Viessmann's service experience with their boilers. Nope. Other companies do this (as stated above), but not Viessmann. I assure you my HVAC contractor now has a spare gas valve. RE: contractors ordering parts directly from Viessmann. Viessmann does this in many other markets, including Canada ... why not in the US? I would have been without heat for around 24 hours if Viessmann had shipped the valve directly to the contractor. But no: it's a clunky antiquated parts distribution system that actually rewarded the non-stocking distributor who botched the parts order! Tell me how a non-stocking distributor adds value to the parts distribution network and exactly why he should get a slice of the profit. And if you've got an answer for that, please reveal if you're a non-stocking distributor! I agree with the poster who said that no HO should be without heat for 5 days and that everyone dropped the ball on this one. Whose responsibility is that? Ultimately, it's Viessmann's ... their name is on the boiler, and their reputation is under discussion here. Viessmann has obviously no parts inventory criteria for distributors. That would be OK if Viessmann had an excellent parts distribution system, or paid some 3rd party company to manage one for them. But the fact is, they don't. And that's a big problem that only Viessmann can fix. So that's my two cents. Thanks to everyone who has contacted me because of this topic on this forum, most especially Paul and Richard. I've had extensive correspondence with Paul over this issue, and a variety of other business topics, much to my enjoyment. And my phone conversation with Richard today was very pleasant and friendly, and certainly a most unexpected effect of my website. Note that I have yet to hear from Viessmann, nor from the distributor who botched the parts order (or is it that Viessmann botched it???). It has been an interesting learning experience for me to find that others have problems with Viessmann's parts distribution system and just suck it up and maintain very costly parts inventories to cover for Viessmann. Nice deal for Viessmann, eh? Regards, Dan p.s. I'm surprised that people in the heating industry have never heard of a face cord of wood. It's 4x8x1 log deep. It's around 1/3 of a cord. We have a fireplace that's more decorative than functional, and wasn't intended to heat the house. It's NOT a wood stove, and its efficiency is obviously terrible. Burning it 24/7 for 5 1/2 days burned almost 2/3 of a "real" cord. Note that my website says that I paid my neighbor to help take down standing dead trees to replace the fireplace wood ... that's the $90 cited. Our normal winter stock of fireplace wood is only 2 face cords. That gets us through a winter of a couple fireplace fires each week. Our house is well-insulated (built in 2006), and we used 7 electric space heaters (2 loaned by the HVAC guy) to do the bulk of the heating during the Viessmann outage. Not all those were room heat, since we had to keep plumbing warm too.
  • N/A @ 6:43 AM


    So we'll eliminate the warehouse and ALWAYS have to wait for parts to be shipped in. Nobody is saying anybody has to stock everything. All I'm saying is if you know parts can be tough to get for something that you sell, it's not a bad idea to have a few things on the shelf for emergencies. To me it seems like common sense. Especially if your region is a bit on the remote side. I'd like to know how the purchase of the Viessmann was initiated. Did the HO see it on the net and tell his contractor, "I want a Viessmann!" or did the contractor actively pursue selling him the brand because that's what he sells?
  • Mark Hunt Mark Hunt @ 9:04 PM
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    You are so right. What do I need a supply house for? Why pay them to do nothing?
  • Bob Bob @ 9:44 AM
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    No beef

    Yo Q-MAN, Don't shoot the messenger. I merely cross-posted the link to the angry homeowners website. Thought it would be interesting to see what the pros thought. Bob
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 9:44 AM
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    That day is already here!

    We first ran into one of these about 1.5-years ago and thought Lowes would stock parts. We will run for DIY parts if the DIY'er agrees to pay for our time, so off we went AFTER the Lowes folks assured us they had the reverse-thread thermocouple in stock. Turned out they did not. In fact, none of the Lowes within 50-miles had one in stock, although one in a neighboring town (45-minutes one-way) said they did & the HO ran for the part - another wasted trip. We've since been offering a BW water heater replacement or referring the DIY'ers to this site & then installing a replacement water heater because Lowes still does not stock the part. Makes Dan's situation look like a walk in the park!
  • N/A @ 10:07 AM

    yes we are...

    I used to turn a few extra bucks fixing window A/Cs in my younger more foolish days. Last time I checked, which was a few years ago, the compressor I needed, my price, was MORE than buying a whole new unit. I was thinking of Mercedes myself. I used to do part time handyman stuff for this lawyer. He had a 1985 gray market Mercedes sitting in his garage. 8 cylinder, which they were not importing to the US at the time. $50,000 car back then. He needed a distributor cap. The only place that had it was the dealer and it cost $100. Meanwhile the one on my Dodge Duster cost $6.95. Funny note, we're doing 160MPH down the highway after this tune up and he says, "You want to go faster?" I says, "No!" ;) I DO believe, if you, as a contractor, are going to deal in the exotic stuff, you should research the parts situation and make sure you have what you need for emergency situations. It's all good to go around and say "Woo hoo, I sell the best in the biz!" but you should be able to support it as well. I was just at Viessmann's warehouse in Warwick, they showed me their parts dept. I was impressed with what they've done to control it. They are right up to date. I still believe the HO would have better spent his energy finding things out from Viessmann like, "What other Viessmann licensed contractors are in my area?" and then calling them seeing if they happen to have the valve. If he was my customer, I would have done it myself.
  • B. Tice B. Tice @ 7:37 PM
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    This is crazy. The DEALER is responsible for stocking parts for the boiler lines he chooses to sell. It is not the responsibility of the mfg. or wholesaler!! If you can't afford to stock the common repair parts, then don't sell the product.
  • joel joel @ 10:41 PM
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    if I stock all parts then why can't i buy a boiler,A/C etc. from the factory what exactly does the wholesaler do for me? Why am I paying their markup? when the freight company could bring the same thing right to my door as to the wholesalers? Better still your argument would say that the local repair garrage should stock parts for every make and model of car which they obviously do not do.
  • Home Depot Employee Home Depot Employee @ 9:23 AM
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    Totally disagree

    Wholesale distributors have a responsibility to support within reason, parts for the equipment they choose to sell. If you are buying product from someone that has to order it in, ask yourself if their committed. As a contractor, do you rent your van and tools every time you get an install job? Of course not you made the investment in your business to perform your service with required tools at hand. Everyone has had a DOA equipment install at least once. We all know that the manufacturer for the most part wonít take a unit back at par. Wouldnít behoove the wholesaler to have that potential spare part on hand than to have a used piece of equipment back in their warehouse or a lost contractor customer because he is stuck with junk?
  • Tony Tony @ 8:57 PM
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    Not crazy

    They're called wholesale SUPPLY houses. If I sell 30-40 a year and the wholesaler sells 600, it would behoove him to stock parts. Then he'd have them for the other 40 contractors who might need one. If I have to stock parts for everything, I don't need a wholesaler. Let me buy from the factory instead.
  • This kind of 3rd-party parts fulfillment company already exists, and there are some huge players who do it really well. Caterpillar uses FedEx Logistics Services to manage their parts system. Any Cat dealer or fleet owner can access an on-line database and place an order 24/7. A FedEx employee in Memphis picks the part from a FedEx-managed warehouse and gives it priority 9:00 am delivery next day including Saturdays. This has the added benefit of lowering inventory costs throughout the distribution network since parts can be pooled in a single location, thus eliminating the "dead stock" problem of the bean counters. So why doesn't Viessmann do something like this for contractors? Are they that afraid of their distributors in the US who apparently add little or no value to their products? Why don't Viessmann contractors DEMAND this of Viessmann?
  • Scott Lind Scott Lind @ 1:02 PM
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    Hi Dan, I wouldn't have started a website to get my point across like you have done but if it works then I applaud the ingenuity. I posted on this site a couple of months ago about parts availability and found resolution because of the above and beyond service of the Viessmann rep agency in Wisconsin. Apparently the non-stocking distributor problem is not a local problem. Like you, I still believe in the product but it's obviously a niche product that will likely not justify complete parts stocking by most contractors or distributors. That being said the 3rd party parts supplier idea sounds like an excellent one. Whatever it takes to keep the parts available without forcing every contractor to sit on an inventory of expensive parts. I sincerely hope that with the pushing from the excellent contractors that frequent this site and install Viessmann products that something will change. I had been singing the unrestrained praises of the Vitodens to anyone who would listen until the parts issues slowed me down. Now it's a very qualified recommendation. Fast, dependable parts availability would change that back. Like Michigan, heat is critical in WI when it is double digits below zero F. I salute the contractors here that carry all the parts (or complete boilers!) on hand to fix anything they sell - especially the ones that offered to ship the parts for me when our system was down - but is that the most reasonable and efficient way to operate in the day of next day air shipping for everything from pliers, to books, to a Land's End shirt?
  • JackR JackR @ 10:02 AM
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    Parts Company

    We may see a new mutated hydronics distributor evolve that will only stock parts. Johnstone may be on to something. Maybe someone should start a web based company that could assure next day air parts service for pre-determined manufacturers. You can get a belt for your Electrolux a hundred different places by Googling it, wouldn't it be great to have a parts "Source". In reality the hydronics market is probably just to small.
  • Noel Noel @ 10:07 AM
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    This is a private company that does very well. Noel
  • Bob Bob @ 9:54 AM
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    Time on this site...

    The Question Man, Been reading this site for years and Oil TechTalk as well(since the 90's) found this site through OTT. I use my REAL NAME not some ubiquitous THE QUESTION MAN moniker. BTW - I'm not the homeowner who created the site. Bob
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