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    Crude language (Dan H.) (53 Posts)

  • Jim Erhardt Jim Erhardt @ 2:58 PM
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    Speaking from first-hand experience...

    ...it is the site owner that sets participation guidelines to maintain the tone of the site. For a civil and professional tone to endure in a public forum, enforcement of policy must always take precedent over any individual or thread of discussion. My kudos to Dan for keeping The Wall on the high road.
  • Rollie Peck Rollie Peck @ 4:54 PM
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    Foul language

    I'm with you, Dan. The topic reminds me of the sign above the dock in Sasebo, Japan in the 1950's where the sailors came in from anchored ships in the harbor: "Swearing shows ignorance, be intelligent." Rollie Peck, Homeowner
  • Mitch Mitch @ 9:15 AM
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    best teacher for not swearing

    is kids, I have seen 6 and 8 year olds drop the "f" bomb in a crowd, silence, and the parents mortified. I know though that the dad uses it often, so you reap what you sow.
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  • bill bill @ 12:27 AM
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    MR. H.

    Just be yourself - everything will fall into place.
  • Alan R. Mercurio Alan R. Mercurio @ 7:21 AM
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    Dan, itís many of the people here and most of all how you maintain this wonderful community that I enjoy being here. Thanks for making it possible. Your friend in the industry,
    Alan R. Mercurio To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    Your friend in the industry,

    Alan R. Mercurio

    www.oiltechtalk.com
  • N/A @ 7:43 AM

    Yea,

    What Alan said...
  • Tony Tony @ 9:30 AM
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    ???

    And what vulgarity is that ? I see no XXX, the universal symbol for a vulgar word or term. Maybe he should've just used a comma instead of /// so there wouldn't be any confusion.
  • Bob Harper Bob Harper @ 11:00 AM
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    decorum in the forum

    Dan, I applaud your stance and embrace it. If you cannot maintain decorum and a professional composure, this is no place for you. On a side note, should anyone on this list ever be subpoenaed, under the rules of discovery, ANY postings you make on the web are subject. Therefore, everytime you post on the web, just consider how it would sound being read aloud by yourself in a deposition or court room. Yes, the profanity this is getting waaay out of hand in public. I find it interesting in Dr. Karl Menninger's works where he is asked the definition of 'mental health'. Cutting and pasting here, it includes "socially considerate behavior". I think that speaks for itself. Bob
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 6:26 PM
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    past dust-ups

    Good points & this post had me thinking back to the wild-west days on The Wall. At my advanced age, the memory ain't exactly to be trusted, but seems to me we had some raucus knock-down dragged-out dust-ups that, at times, got mighty confrontational with more than a few in-your-face dialogs. All, as I recall, without a single profane word tossed in to inflame the already burning inferno of rhetoric. Ahhhhhh, those were the days(G). I also recall when the "free speech" line of responsible civility was crossed and, in addition, porn was tossed in and The Wall was taken down until our host could have it rebuilt with some safeguards built in. A few hollered "censorship" while the rest lamented the loss caused by ignorance and lack of civility. It's been a lively evolution and most folks grew (matured?) along with The Wall. Gone are the wild-west bar-room days with their shoot-em-up dust-ups, but in their place we have a vastly expanded family where an industry-unique blending takes place across the lines of homeowners/DIYers/and professionals. Personally, I'm more than ok with the changes. It is, after all, our hosts' home we're visiting.
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 6:48 PM
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    Dave

    Well said , I am one of those who has matured.
  • Dave Yates (GrandPAH) Dave Yates (GrandPAH) @ 6:59 PM
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    me too

    This rich soup we all get to taste is flavored by each morsel that's added. The 'head chef' is in charge of ensuring nothing that would sour its taste gets added! The menu is as diverse as it gets and the diners deserve the best.
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 8:39 PM
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    those of us

    who have been here a while know this is not a new thing. Dan has ran a tight ship for quite a while. Yes some may leave yet Dan has never let that sway his rules.
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 10:15 PM
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    Okay, thanks.

    Peace.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • Mad Dog Mad Dog @ 1:17 AM
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    my take on it...........

    I like to cuss and swear when I feel like it too...around the guys, o make a point with a knucklehead who "listens" better when you talk to him in his language, but NEVER around women, children or the general public (The Wall included)...not that I haven't slipped occassionally. The problem is that these days it has taken hold like a cancer ...on tv, movies, and of course in our troubled youth and adults too. Bottom line...you can get ticked at dan all u want, but it is HIS living room here and the rules of the house should be respected. Last, where else are u gonna find a place....a truly unique one of a kind place like this on the web???? You won't. ...its more special than u realize gentlemen. Mad dog To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • David Broome David Broome @ 12:42 PM
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    the wall

    Good morning Dan, maddog and others. First it is true this Dan's Wall. I haved stayed away from the wall for several reasons. It seems like any time you give an opnion; you get blasted by at least three or four folks never fails. I remember a young man blasting me for not only stating an opion but a cold hard fact. I have been in the service industies for over 35 years. Much has changed and I like most folks are continually educating ourselves in a rapid changing business. So many times folks graduate from some vocab school and do one or two jobs and then they become experts in their minds and we are stupid do not know anything and they know everything. Yes at one time I really enjoyed Dan's Wall, but with all the political correctness and name calling; I very seldom read any of the post or very seldom post. But that is my 2 cents worth and I am sure someone will be offended by my post but all you Dads out there have a great Fathers Day. Peace Be With You David C. Broome
  • Cosmo Cosmo @ 1:11 PM
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    My two cents

    This site has always been open to the public. I would be embarrassed if a potential customer googled my name, and finds me cursing on a message board. Sure I am just as guilty as the next guy for letting it fly once in a while, however if I were in Dan's shoes I would have done the same thing. He owns the site, and it is up to him to evolve it into what he wants, and takes the risk that some of us won't like it and move on. I for one agree with it, because in my view now as I am getting a little more mature I understand that cursing is a sign of an admission of weakness of position during an argument. I save the cursing for when I jam my fingers wrenching, EDIT- (complaining about a deadbeat builder who won't pay his invoices, yet somehow can afford to go golfing), the basketball court, and fishing.... Cosmo
  • Baltimore/Maine Doug Baltimore/Maine Doug @ 7:34 PM
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    My most recent experience with cursing

    has been with the rehab of the row home next to mine. First thing in the morning the GC and subs/employees gather to hold a contest to see how many ways to use the word. Then they start the generator on the sidewalk, sometimes pointing it into the building. Since the generator and compressor are now making noise, they have to shout the curses louder to be heard. All day this goes on. The masons drink and towards the end of the day every other word is the word - used as a noun, adverb, adjective, verb etc. One guy exhibits all the symptoms of a crack habit. On top of this is the radio. Since the radio adds to the noise from the generator and compressor, they have to shout curses even louder. Did I mention the nails and trash and cement dust and brick dust? At least that stuff does not curse but I mutter some things since the contractors and subs/employees never clean up. My Granddaughter has been learning some interesting new words and my son the attorney is not happy about it. I am thinking of writing an article for the paper about the experience. We have decided to sell and move out of the city and live in a single family home. The only contractors I will have to listen to will be those I invite into my house.
  • GW GW @ 8:20 PM
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    yes

    It's kinda like smoking, if you're a smoker, you have not much of a clue how some people react to the smokey smell. I actually started adding a sentence in my opening speal in my estimates that "we are respectful to you and your household, our employees are professisonaly clothed at all times, we are non-smoking, and there will be no foul language. " we are very busy. gary To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
  • Gene Gene @ 1:54 PM
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    Perhaps if you help them move the generator closer to the building they will stop swearing ;) perhaps they are suffering from CO poisoning?? you could call the town and say you think that because they start the generator on the sidewalk, sometimes pointing it into the building you believe they have brain damage and the site needs to be inspected and their health checked out.
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 8:04 AM
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    Even if you replace some of the letters with XXX

    it's still crude. I hate to keep removing threads from the Wall, but it's not professional to curse, so I'll keep taking them down. You're wasting our time if you keep cursing here, and I'll have to ask you to leave if you don't stop. Thanks for your understanding and your cooperation.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • Plumdog Plumdog @ 8:45 AM
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    I find that odd

    that you would be so sensitive to crude. I attended one of your seminars a couple years ago; at which you told the "joke" about left and right handed wiping. It painted a picture in my minds eye that has caused me to seek comfort in therapy and medications, and I have not gotten over it. Talk about crude!
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 10:17 AM
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    A explanation:

    I learned that people such as yourself are upset by stories about handicap toilets, so I stopped telling that one. That is also why I'm asking people who post on the Wall not to curse, or use crude, nasty language toward each other. I learned and now I'm asking others to learn as well. We get more done when people respect each other. Kindness works here. My apologies for the damage caused to you by my seminar story.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 9:15 PM
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    what ? JUST let it pass

    your calling me out --stating that i was challenging Dan --and i had something written something that was-what ?? just let it pass NO way i take a lot of time to type my responses (terrible at typing ) the reason that thread was deleted was because of an F-bomb from the thread originator--i did have a three letter word starting with an A (thats a synonym for a Donkey) in my post nothing more that could be considered offensive ----i Edit myself , hold my tongue more than you can imagine -at work,home with the kids,on these public forums,just for the very reason you dont know who is going to be within earshot/eyesite of a conversation or thread posting just for the particular reasons that this whole thread started ----And you cant write me an e-mail to what you think I might have posted -- YOU sir --have your facts mixed up
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 9:35 PM
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    I'm asking again,

    and nicely. Please stop.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 9:42 PM
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    just so you know i started my reply before your post at 9:05 Dan --it does take me a long time to type and have it in a civil manner by the time it went up yours was there
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 8:43 PM
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    Whatever

    It was there long enough to see. Why post it in the first place???
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 8:55 PM
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    are you sure it was me? or something in my post ,because i'm not buying it --i could write my complete reply to that thread here -verbatim ------why dont you e-mail what i wrote
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 9:01 PM
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    It is gone

    And I did not copy it. Lets just let it pass.
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 9:05 PM
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    Gentlemen,.

    we don't need or want another fight here. It's about helping each other, not fighting with each other. Please stop this. Thank you.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • N/A @ 10:40 AM

    I personally find

    swearing not only offensive but a sign of mental gaps filled with terms that do not explain the reasoning the person is trying to make. It however should be the motto of all here in dealing with one another to practice what we preach. I can remember a time on one of our Wall outings that very foul language was used and it offended my wife who was present along with some other wives. For some reason foul language is now out in open forums and especially among our young people. I wonder were they learned such language.
  • Paul Fredricks Paul Fredricks @ 1:22 PM
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    It's your site, and you should and can make the rules and everyone should follow them. Personally, I don't care about the language, as long as the words aren't used in a hurtful way. To me, they are just words. I can picture a day when they are in Funk and Wagnall's.
  • bill bill @ 11:29 AM
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    absolutely

    It distracts from the goal of learning and putting it to use. Just look at Dick Cheney!
  • EricAune EricAune @ 11:33 AM
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    Right on

    DXXX Cheney? Just kidding, thanks Dan. To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    "If you don't like change, your going to like irrelevance even less"
  • Bill Clinton Bill Clinton @ 1:07 PM
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    I have nothing against good manners.

    What I'm saying is that, in my book, humanity and straight talking trump protecting a pristine public face and covering one's.....uuhhhhh...posterior. Any day. Any time. Obviously I'm in a small minority. Done with this subject. Bill
  • GW GW @ 1:32 PM
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    yes indeed

    We are all keenly aware of the various methods on communication. To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
  • I like

    straight talking as well. Trouble is, when does straight talking become abusive; it's a fine line. I don't mind a bit of swearing to make a point, but to needlessly swear is detracting. I have become very heated with discussions on The Wall, but don't have a problem with keeping my swear words out of it. I think we are all on the same wavelength here. Bill just doesn't want his or others freedom of speech (swearing) to be limited to the point where we loose content. You've got to admit it, some of us mechanics are pretty rough around the collar and have problems with even spelling the swear words, but they have something to say.
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 10:46 PM
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    A large percentage of this business is "crude" it was built on "crude" //////refined crude /
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 8:25 AM
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    oil246gas

    Dan made a very clear point about vulgarities and you responded with a very strong post using a vulgarity. You were challenging Dan's wishes. I hear it all the time too but I have come to the point of not needing it in my everyday vocabulary. We all have the choice of visiting and participating here and I for one can live with the rules in exchange for what I gain.
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 4:50 PM
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    RICH??

    > Dan made a very clear point about vulgarities
    > and you responded with a very strong post using a
    > vulgarity. You were challenging Dan's wishes. I
    What vulgarity are you referencing?? if you are commenting on my participation in that thread --the only word that was used by myself - was a 3 letter word used to describe a donkey---or a long eared slow animal of the --something family ---or a stupid idiotic person --///////////////////////or are you referencing the fact that i stated a very well known fact// about a boiler maufacturers' model that was a huge problem that leaked in the same place on a huge percentage of them ???? i'm missing something
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 6:40 PM
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    It has been deleted

    I think you know what was listed for a short amount of time. I saw it and thought it was out of line. Remember we have many homeowners and ladies who visit this site besides hose of us who are used to such language. Why is this request so difficult?
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 8:16 PM
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    RICH

    who do you think deleted it ?? Dan has already stated that the way the program works --as far as deleting foul language , it has to delete the whole thread ---i did write and EDIT myself a few times in different threads ---so im not sure of exactly what i wrote -that you may be referring to -- you might even have me mixed up with someone else ---either way any EDITING done to my post was by ME ---
  • Steamhead (in transit) Steamhead (in transit) @ 10:45 PM
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    This is Dan's house

    and he makes the rules, which we all must follow. End of discussion. To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Rich Kontny Rich Kontny @ 4:37 PM
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    The new Wall

    Are we getting closer Dan???? As far as your rules go I have no problem with them as I have learned over the years to conform and learn. You have every right to apply rules as you see fit.
  • Empire Empire @ 3:29 PM
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    Think of it like this..........

    "Speak to someone with the utmost respect, as you would expect to be spoken to." Since we are civilized, try to exercise politeness, It never offended anyone........... Mike T. Now I sound like a politician with morals........?
  • Bill Clinton Bill Clinton @ 2:07 PM
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    Dissenting opinion

    Hi, Dan: I am bothered by your decision because I think that thread addressed an issue of importance and the entire community stood to gain from the discussion. I've been hanging around your site for about ten years and have seen numerous slow evolutions from raucous dissension rife with abusive language to mutual understanding, increased knowledge, tolerance, and even consensus and civility. I have always believed this a towering achlievement of this web site and community. Why not, instead of deleting the entire thread, just excise the offending word, deliver a warning to the offender, and if the offender repeats offense too much, then bar him from the web site? I don't see that this process would demand substantially more of your time than deleting the entire thread and dealing with informing why you have done so. I realize that policy will not paint such a pretty picture for the non-trade public, but I'm not wild about "pretty pictures" any how. There was real concern in the offending post, and it was someone groping for an understanding of how to handle a very difficult situation, unsure of the correctness of how he actually handled it, and as manfully as he could, laying the question out for input from his peers. To me it looks like you threw out the baby with the bathwater. Bill Bill Cliinton
  • oil-2-4-6-gas oil-2-4-6-gas @ 10:15 PM
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    i was part of that discussion and also feel it was not offensive and the "crude" language was done in a way to get the point across, nothing else ---seriously i hear language at schools and office buildings -- that are more offensive and crude by 10 fold ----if this is what is to be -----------i will be moving on ------now whether or not I have,do or will actually give any good answers,opinions or help with anyones questions is open for debate -------
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 10:22 PM
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    Yes,

    this is what it is to be, what was intended, what it should have been all along, and for sure what it will be when the new site launches. Your call from there. Stay or go, up to you.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 4:09 PM
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    Bill,

    thanks, as always, for the thoughtful post. The software that runs this Wall is a bit unusual in that it will delete all the posts that are tied to an offending post. If I do what you suggest, much of the thread will no longer make sense. The new Wall will have many more features and this won't be an issue then.
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
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  • Bill Clinton Bill Clinton @ 4:40 PM
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    Right to web site

    Jim: Of course Dan can do as he wants with his web site. Never challenged that right. All I'm saying is I think he errs. Seems to me I remember a ten year younger Jim Erhardt who then styled himself Doc Radiant who made posts that to my sensitivities, at any rate, were aggessive, arrogant, belittling, and so forth (no four letter words though). Do you wish that way back then someone had deleted your threads because they weren't civil enough. Personally, I think you grew from the process as I did on my end. Bill Clinton
  • Jim Erhardt Jim Erhardt @ 12:44 PM
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    The years have mellowed us, Bill...

    ...and I like it this way! Fond memories nonetheless, thanks for reminding me of them.
  • Bill Clinton Bill Clinton @ 4:58 PM
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    Dan

    I recall a younger Dan Holohan who stridently made rash assertions and repeatedlly put his foot in his mouth in ways that were not polite and not civil, and often just plain wrong. I remember The Wall as a place where people were willing to assert strong opinions and call a spade a spade, if that was the way they saw it. I learned enormously from those exchanges. Sure, it's usually better to speak with civilly. Unfortunately, not everyone has a B.A in Sociology (as do both you and I), the obtaining of which has required them to hone their rhetoric and their manners. Sometimes people have upsets difficult to articulate and reason rationally about. I remember a Wall where they could, in whatever manner they were capable, tell others of their angers and pains and frustrations and be heard, and counseled by people who live the same experiences and may just be a little further along in their careers. I fear that is passing and The Wall is trending toward being just a revenue stream wherin one doesn't risk alienating potential customers. I fear it is becoming just a business and not a community. I fear it is in danger of embracing so many things you rightly used to criticise the Radiant Panel Association for. I'm not in any way disputing your right to run your web site the way you want. Maybe all good things must eventually pass, but I'm not going to watch them pass unremarked. Bill
  • GW GW @ 7:21 PM
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    uhh

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sure, it's usually better to speak with civilly. Unfortunately, not everyone has a B.A in Sociology (as do both you and I), it's comments like that which can lead to spin-offs, and you have a degree in the ins and outs of social aspects..golly gee I don't have that degree, and I am pleased with my ability to comminicate...this is gramar school-aged stuff, it just doesn't look professional at all, if I was a HO reading some of these posts I would wonder what's up. Gary To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
  • David Sutton David Sutton @ 10:04 AM
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    Thanks Dan

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