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    Temperature-based cut-in for a Vaporstat? (24 Posts)

  • MarkS MarkS @ 6:50 PM
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    Temperature-based cut-in for a Vaporstat?

    I installed a vaporstat on my steamer last weekend and have been datalogging the flue temperature to get cycle time data. When maintaining temperature, the system runs for 20-25 mins, and never cuts out on pressure. On recovery from setback (60 to 67 degF), the burner runs for about an hour, then there are 3 or 4 pressure cycles of 1 min off and 3 mins on, before the thermostat is satisfied.

    Operating pressure is 2 oz, v-stat cut-out is 3 oz, diff is 3-1/2 oz (it cuts in at a bit of negative pressure).

    Those pressure cycles at the end of the burn seem like wasted fuel to me. If it cuts out on pressure, then the system is (or should be) filled with steam. And if the system is filled with steam, then I should let the latent heat do its job and shouldn't re-fire the burner until its spent.

    The Tekmar 279 steam control has a "lockout differential" feature where it waits for a measured temperature on a condensate return to drop below a setpoint before letting the burner re-fire.

    I've been kicking around a couple of ideas for doing something similar, to add a temperature-based cut-in when the vaporstat cuts out on pressure.

    So I was wondering if anyone has done this already, or if it's even worthwhile to try, or if I should just save up and buy the Tekmar. :-)

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
    This post was edited by an admin on February 17, 2010 6:52 PM.
  • Charlie from wmass Charlie from wmass @ 6:39 AM
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    would defeat the purpose

    of the vaporstat.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.
    cell # 413-841-6726
  • MarkS MarkS @ 8:26 AM
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    Why?

    Charlie, I must be missing something. Why do I want to cut out on pressure, and then have a series of 1 minute off and 3 minute on cycles? I thought short-cycling was Not A Good Thing.

    Thanks,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • Charlie from wmass Charlie from wmass @ 11:34 AM
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    It is better to be off than

    on and sending heat up the chimney you do not need. The delta T between low pressure and your combustion gases is greater than between high pressure and your combustion products. Picture three buckets. The first is your heat source, be it oil, gas solar, what have you. the second is your boiler and the third is your homes use for heat. You have a siphon tube from bucket one to bucket two. and a hole on the side of bucket two draining out the side into bucket three. I need to learn to draw diagrams. Now comes the visual.

    As you raise bucket one you increase the speed of the siphon into bucket two, you do this as you raise your steam pressure. The water going from bucket two to bucket three is limited by the hole which is slightly larger than bucket threes hole which represents your heat loss. If you fill bucket two too fast it over flows before it can drain into bucket three.

    Your vaporstat or pressure trol stops the over pressure which is like the over flowing of bucket two. The thermostat is what stops the whole thing when bucket three gets to the point you want it to be full.

    Clear as mud I hope?
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.
    cell # 413-841-6726
  • MarkS MarkS @ 3:10 PM
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    Clear as clean boiler water

    Thanks for the explanation, Charlie, it's pretty clear. And your first sentence exactly describes the problem I'm trying to solve.

    When my vaporstat cuts out, it's always near the end of a heating cycle. I'm running at such a low pressure that it only takes a minute or so for the vaporstat to cut back in. But at that point the burner doesn't need to run any more; latent heat in the rads will eventually satisfy the thermostat.

    Using the bucket analogy, bucket one fills bucket two when bucket three is, say, 90 percent full. The vaporstat cuts out and stops the flow from bucket one. Bucket two only drains into bucket three for a short time before the vaporstat cuts in and bucket one starts re-filling bucket two, which fills again in short order. This short-filling cycle repeats until bucket three is full.

    But when bucket three is 90% full, I know that there's enough in bucket two to finish filling bucket three. I don't need to add any more from bucket one, even though the vaporstat says I can do so.

    So when bucket two fills, I want to delay bucket one from refilling it for some period of time, even if the vaporstat says "go". I was thinking of using condensate temperature as the delay variable, but data I've collected over the last week suggests that a timing relay would work just as well.

    Bottom line is, I figure if I can eliminate 10 minutes of this end-of-heating-cycle short cycling twice a day (morning and afternoon recovery from thermostat setback), over a 3 month period that could be 28 hours of fuel saved.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 4:54 PM
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    i admire your

    i admire your efforts .. and I did ask this same question quite a while back .. it's actually hiding in a post about gortons .. http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/128409/gorton-2-leaking-air-in-blow-test ..

    you are trying to accomplish what i understand an anticpator to do .. you might also look at the Honeywell T-stats with "Intelligent recovery" features .. supposedly they learn about your systems ability to fulfill a call for recovery and after several days/weeks it will do it in an optimized way.

    the best solution that I found was to eliminate any setbacks altogether .. i have looked at my consumption data over the last few weeks with and without setback and i have found that i use more fuel recovering from a 3degF setback than if I had simply left the temp remain constant 24/7. 

    you said it yourself .. maintaining temp costs you about 20mins .. recovering costs you 3x the amount (an extra 2 cycles) .. if you simply left at 67dF would you run 3 cycles maintaining 67 during the time of your setback? if not then the setback is costing you fuel. you may also find that closing the gap on the setback (7degF is higher than anyone here has every recommended) you may also eliminate the end of cycle pressure cycling.
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • MarkS MarkS @ 8:21 PM
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    Thanks JP, I remember

    reading that thread a while back, as well as the one where your flue temp data set clearly showed end-of-cycle short cycling. I've also seen a few other older threads asking similar questions, but I haven't read that anyone implemented a solution.

    I thought about the t-stat anticipator. It's not quite the same problem though; the v-stat could still cycle on pressure even with an anticipator, though in my case I think it's unlikely.

    I installed a Honeywell CT3600 t-stat twhen we bought the house 11 years ago. It has the "adaptive recovery" option, but according to my data it hasn't "un-learned" ten years worth of adaptation from the old, undersized boiler, and I haven't found a way to reset it. Tried turning the feature off and then on again, pulled the batteries, with no luck. It must store the adaptive recovery data in non-volatile memory. It pretty consistently starts a recovery burn about 1/2 hour earlier than it needs to, so I have to set the target time about 1/2 hour ahead of what I really want.

    I've been thinking about replacing it, but the 3600 has a really nice "Usage" feature where it will display the call-for-heat elapsed time for today, yesterday, and from when it was last reset. I haven't found a new t-stat with that feature, and I really hate to lose it, as I use the time-since-last-reset along with fuel delivery info for consumption calcs.

    BTW, I used to run an 11 degree setback (56 deg) at night on the old boiler (we like it cold, that's what blankets are for). The new one too, until I went into the basement one morning and found the pressure up around 12 oz! This is what prompted the vaporstat install, which in turn prompted the musings about an end-of-cycle short cycling solution.

    JP, I seem to recall that your logger data was pretty conclusive on maintain vs setback. Mine doesn't point to a clear choice yet, so I'm still running the data loggers. I need a couple more cold snaps of three or four days each to try a few of the options. Once we get into the swing season, I don't think I'll be cutting out on pressure very much.

    At any rate, I'm going to give this time delay solution a shot. I'll sketch up and post the wiring diagram I'm planning to use.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 9:01 PM
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    my neighbor

    my neighbor has the 3600, i am familiar with the usage data .. however, remember that that is time that the t-stat is calling for heat, not necessarily time that you burner is running (aquastat and v-stat affect this difference) .. that's why I installed the hour-meter directly in the burner circuit .. for under $20 you really can't go wrong.

    have you tried calling honeywell regarding the smart recovery reset?

    in my pressure cycle data, i was glad that I had a v-stat since it turned off the boiler for a portion of the extra 35mins or so extra that the recovery cycle ran that would have required burn had it not been for the low pressure v-stat.

    i see that your bucket #2 is overflowing and that you feel there is enough stored heat in the system towards end of cycle to eventually satisfy the t-stat .. i hope the time delay works out but it seems that there should be other 'off-the-shelf' solutions...

    however, a friend and steam expert local to me tells me that the only true way to run a steam system is by time (and temp of condensate return at your furthest point) and not by t-stat so you may have something here. (He swears by the heat-timer system.. and there are some good reference materials regarding it's operation floating around)

    i'm curious about how it all turns out .. but i also wonder if you are going to get many more cold snap days ... i was just looking at the HDD over the last few years and it seems that we normally get one more snap within the next 10days from now...then we go into pretty steady decline (fewer HDD).

    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • MarkS MarkS @ 9:39 PM
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    It'll be cold again next winter

    so there will be more data collection opportunities if I don't get everything I want this season.

    I'm very interested in the outdoor reset control offerings. I've looked at the Heat-Timer but it's way out of my price range. The Tekmar 279 is tempting but still pricey (and even then it doesn't really solve my vaporstat problem). The Tekmar folks tell me that you could see up to 15% savings over indoor-only thermostats, which for me is a 3 to 4 year payback with today's fuel prices, sooner if the price goes up.

    I did contact Honeywell about the 3600 and they weren't much help. Best they could do is direct me to the current crop of thermostats. So maybe I'll just bite the bullet and get an new t-stat and an hour meter. It just bugs me that now I need two things to do what one used to.

    Should have diagrams and descriptions ready to post tomorrow. Stay tuned.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 9:58 AM
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    i figured you were the type

    that would take the heat-timer info and replicate the concepts for your needs. it wasn't my intention that you try to purchase one :-)
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • MarkS MarkS @ 11:27 AM
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    Adding a Time Delay to Vaporstat Cut-In

    Here are two solutions and wiring digrams for adding a time delay to a vaporstat cut-in.

    Thermostat Interrupt (Low Voltage)

    In this setup, the vaporstat and time delay relay are used to interrupt the thermostat call-for-heat signal to the burner control. The pressuretrol remains in use along with the LWCO in the burner line voltage circuit.

    In normal operation, the upper set of relay contacts is closed and the thermostat controls the call for heat as usual. When the vaporstat cuts out on pressure, R-B breaks and R-W makes, energizing the relay coil. The lower set of contacts on the relay serve as a seal-in circuit to keep the coil energized after the vaporstat cuts in, breaking R-W. While the relay is energized, the upper set of contacts breaks the thermostat circuit. After the configured time delay, the relay drops out, breaking the seal-in and de-energizing the coil, and closing the contacts to the thermostat circuit.

    Burner Circuit Interrupt (Line Voltage)

    In this setup, the vaporstat and relay contacts are wired in series into the line voltage burner circuit. In normal operation, the upper set of relay contacts are closed and the burner controls work as usual. When the vaporstat cuts out on pressure, R-B breaks and R-W makes, energizing the relay coil. The lower set of contacts on the relay serve as a seal-in circuit to keep the coil energized after the vaporstat cuts in, breaking R-W. While the relay is energized, the upper set of contacts breaks the burner circuit. After the configured time delay, the relay drops out, breaking the seal-in and de-energizing the coil, and closing the contacts to the burner circuit.

    -----
    In both cases, there's no power draw until the vaporstat cuts out. The contacts on the circuit to be interrupted are normally closed unless the relay is energized, so the risk of failure and a no-heat situation should be low.

    I've decided to go with the low voltage solution, partly because its low voltage and partly because I still have the pressuretrol. I've selected a Magnecraft TDRSOXP On Delay/Interval Time Delay relay, available from FactoryMation.com.
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
    This post was edited by an admin on February 23, 2010 11:30 AM.
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 9:31 AM
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    i finally...

    i finally had a chance to carefully understand your last post .. do you have it operational yet or are you still awaiting parts? i wasn't aware that you could use the v-stat in a low voltage circuit .. i suppose I never really considered why it couldn't be. thanks for this post, please do let us know how it goes. thanks.
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • MarkS MarkS @ 3:07 PM
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    When you get right down to it,

    despite all the mechanical complexity, the vaporstat is just a switch. It will handle 24V just as well as it does 120V. The only downside is that I still have to keep the pressuretrol on the line voltage burner circuit. I'm breaking a few rules by having the p-trol, v-stat, 0-30in, and low pressure gauges all on the same pigtail. Not sure what else to do as there's only one tapping. But that's a problem for a different day.

    The relay came yesterday, now I just need to get the right sized electrical box and find a couple of hours to wire it up.

    I did get to test the relay yesterday. My Honeywell R7184 burner control has some extra terminals for an "EnviraCOM" feature. The thermostat ties in to terminals 3 and 4 on the control. Terminals 2 and 3 provide a constant 24VAC for whatever the EnviraCOM is supposed to do. Since I don't have any EnviraCOM devices, I tested the relay on those terminals yesterday and it worked fine, so now I have my 24 V power source. Small steps.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • N/A @ 8:50 AM

    Low voltage use of vaporstat

    Your idea looks like a good one.

    I used to work as a technician for the post office (retired now) working on the mail sorting machines and we had a lot of problems with switches not reliably working on 24v. i contacted a couple of manufactures about this and after a lot of back and forth I got them to admit there "could" be a problem with the contacts at low voltages. It is not easy to get to the real technical expertise in these customers and you have to promise to NEVER tell their boss you heard anything from them. The problem with most snap switches is that there isn't any wiping action to keep the contacts clean. In the case of this class of switch in the postal environment dust would slowly work it's way into a switch and the 24v wasn't enough to break through, 120v would cut through just fine (some of our older equipment used 120v and with the same switch there were no problems.
    Dust shouldn't be nearly as bad a problem in most cellars. There does tend to be a moisture problem, especially in the warm months, that might be a problem. Honeywell might have thought all this out but I would keep an eye peeled for signs of erratic behavior. If you are lucky enough to have a mercury vaporstat your golden!

    I look forward to reading about your results. In the mean time I'll start looking for another mercury vaporstat.

    Bob
  • seabee570 seabee570 @ 12:17 PM
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    delay tactics

    on commercial ddc(direct digital controls),one of the things that they do is add room sensors=thermostats,to get an average space temperature.it may be possible to add a thermostat to get an average temp ,rather than rely on one,thus delaying the boiler from firing....you would have to watch the distance of added wire,and possibly upsize the transformer. it would not cost alot either.
  • MarkS MarkS @ 8:04 PM
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    Installation

    I hooked everything up for testing a couple of weeks ago, and the prototype worked pretty well, so I went ahead with a more permanent installation (see photos). This is the low-voltage arrangement in which the vaporstat and time delay interrupt the thermostat call-for-heat signal, while the pressuretrol and LWCO remain in the burner line voltage circuit.

    Spent a fair bit of time figuring out how to squeeze a pressuretrol, vaporstat, and two pressure gauges into a reasonably compact space. The big box store only had bright brass fittings, so there's a mix of that and red brass. There's a union at the end of the pigtail just before the tee so the whole assembly can be removed. I'd prefer to have the high and low pressure gear on separate pigtails, but there's only one tapping into the boiler.

    Looking at the pigtail head-on, to the right is the standard pressuretrol and 30 psi gauge. To the left is the new vaporstat and 0-30" H2O low pressure gauge. There's a ball valve just after the tee, to isolate the low pressure equipment during blowdowns. Behind the vaporstat there's another ball valve and a capped nipple; this is for calibrating and testing the vaporstat in situ.

    The relay electrical box is mounted above and to the right of the service switch. On the inside of the cover plate there's a wiring diagram and desciption of the delay circuitry. The relay time-delay adjustment is accessible through a 3/4" knockout in the top of the box. Vaporstat and thermostat wires enter on the left; wiring from the R7184 burner control enters on the right. I installed plug-in connectors on the vaporstat and R7184 burner control wiring so they can be disconnected for maintenance.

    Over the last couple of weeks there have been only a few times when the boiler cut out on pressure. In those cases, the new control worked as expected - the time delay opened the thermostat circuit for 20 minutes, and the thermostat setpoint was reached before the delay time expired. I need more logger data to see if this is saving fuel or not, and we're getting into the swing season so I'll probably have to pick this up again next winter.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • Alex265 Alex265 @ 4:00 PM
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    An hour meter?

    jpf321, which hour meter are you using, I can't find anything for under $20. Is there a chance you still have a link to where you bought it? Thank you.
  • MarkS MarkS @ 5:52 PM
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    Try here

    I got mine from DrillSpot.com.
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • Mike Kusiak Mike Kusiak @ 8:23 AM
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    Minimum recording time increment?

    Mark, what is the minimum time increment that your recorder can register?  I see from the description that the meter displays tenths of an hour ( 6 minutes), but will it actually  record shorter intervals?

    For example, if your burner runs for say two minutes per cycle, will the recorder accurately register and totalize these two minute intervals until the elapsed time accumulates to 6 minutes, where it will change the display digit? I am curious what the minimum recordable interval is, even if it is less than the least significant digit of the display.
  • N/A @ 3:44 PM

    minimum time recorded

    i installed a time meter on my system just after new years (measures down to one tenth of an hour) and tested it to be sure it was accurately indicating the boiler on time. My system usually runs for 13-14 minutes when the thermostat call for heat until the vaporstat shuts it down at 13 oz. The system will then run for 4 to 10 additional cycles (depends on how cold it is) where the on time may only be 90 to 45 seconds.

    I used an electronic timer that records in seconds and sat next to the boiler while the boiler went through a heating cycle and it accurately accumulated all the time.

    My meter runs off 120v and is a Quartz brand that I bought used for $13 on ebay. I wired it in parallel with the oil burner.

    Bob
  • MarkS MarkS @ 7:29 PM
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    The ENM meter

    appears to work the same way as Bob's. I had four 2-minute DHW cycles on the boiler today, and the hour meter incremented by 0.1. I can't tell if it totalizes down to the second or not. Mine's also wired in parallel with the burner.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • MarkS MarkS @ 8:55 AM
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    Good question

    That's a good question, Mike. I would expect it to totalize internally any time there's power applied, but I don't know that for a fact.

    Weather's warm today, so all the boiler will be doing is running for two minutes every three or four hours to keep the tankless coil hot. I'll check it tonight and let you know.
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 4:00 PM
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    yes.. correct

    firstly, the hour meter I used is available in my system pictures .. Mark was correct, I got it at drillspot.

    secondly, yes . ALL accumulated time is recorded/captured .. however, it will only show you time in 0.1hr increments (6mins)
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • kmh5147 kmh5147 @ 8:59 AM
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    Mark!

    Hello Mark, so I've decided to configure a timer like the one you presented us above.  I have my relay, now I'm just waiting on my octal socket and I was looking at your diagram with a question.  You connected terminal 8 to your 24v vac on the burner however I only have the standard COM and T-Stat.  Am I incorrect in thinking that I can follow your diagram and bridge the comm wire from the burner to terminal 8?  Or do I need to provide a 24v from an adapter to make this work?

    Thanks in advance!
    BTW  I just realized I live very close to your area!
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