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    Is there a reason to prefer Triangle Tube over Lochinvar? (10 Posts)

  • JohnNY JohnNY @ 12:13 PM
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    Is there a reason to prefer Triangle Tube over Lochinvar?

    Just looking for honest, intelligent reasons why an engineer might approve a submittal changing two spec'd Lochinvar Knight XL boilers to two Prestige Solo 399 models.

    Thanks in advance.
  • Constantin Constantin @ 3:01 PM
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    Well...

    Both companies are privately held, so owning stock in one or the other likely isn't it! :-D

    But seriously, I suppose the somewhat unique heat exchanger is one reason that someone might like the TT over the Lochinvar.

    More importantly, are the boilers a good match for the intended loads? Are the temperatures of the supply and return waters in the right range, etc.?

    Let me turn it around: If everything is OK, eco-system-wise, why would you have a big preference for Lochinvar over TT? It seems like you have a preference for one product over the other, so what I would do is present the customer an option:

    1) Go with the spec'd system.
    2) Install the system you prefer after you convince the customer that it's better

    At the end of the day, it's up to the customer and your ability to inform them about their options. Some 'engineered' systems I have seen lack basic knowledge of the products involved... for example, a gas-fired Vitola combined with a LLH. These sorts of problems are especially acute in 'simple' residential-scale applications where some engineers are simply out of their usual field (think large commercial installations/hospitals/schools/etc.) since that's not what they do every day and not what they see done every day.
  • eluv8 eluv8 @ 4:02 PM
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    boiler preference

    Could be a host of several things,

    Personal preference, Relationship with the rep, maintenance requirements, parts, first cost, local availability, end user request, piping requirements, water quality, all come to mind as well as what Constantin has mentioned.

    to continue the joke:
    Its possible that he has friends or family that could benefit by the sale of a Triangle Tube.....Stock is not the only way to receive an increase these days. Its to easy to track a direct bribe you have to look 2 and 3 layers deep anymore and sometimes even further.
  • EricAune EricAune @ 4:06 PM
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    Two Solos?

    Are they spec'ing them as the new cascade models, pre-piped?
    "If you don't like change, your going to like irrelevance even less"
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 4:51 PM
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    Personal preference

    I prefer to use the Knight because of the total access to the deeper portions of the control logic. I can get a Knight to stand on its head and spit wooden nickels. There are two adjustments that can be made on the TT.

    I can connect my laptop PC to the Knight and data log information. Can't do that with the TT.

    TT claims to be maintenance free. To the best of my 30+ years of experience, NOTHING on the fireside of ANY systems is virtually maintenance free, unless you want it to go away...

    Little of an engineers material specifications is based on "actual experience", but more a matter of whose catalogs they have in their office, and which ones they understand. Location has a lot to do with it too. I remember back about 20 years ago when I was in Buffalo (Cheektowaga) N.Y., replacing the Scotch Marine 3 pass fire tube boilers in a hotel with RayPak copper fin tube boilers, the local fitters I'd contracted to do the pipe work had never even heard of a RayPak boiler.

    Funny how things like that work.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Jean-David Beyer Jean-David Beyer @ 5:07 PM
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    Buffalo (Cheektowaga) N.Y.

    I used to work at Sierra Research on Cayuga Road, back when they first started up. I was employee #33. They got merged, unmerged, and remerged, and I do not think they exist as an independent entity anymore. That was in the early 1960s. Lots has changed over the years.
  • Mike Kusiak Mike Kusiak @ 10:42 PM
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    Sierra

    Is that the same Sierra that made high power RF loads and attenuators?

    I still have a 250 W  RF 50 ohm load resistor made by Sierra. As I recall, the label says a division of Philco, which might put its manufacture in the mid 1960's.
  • Jean-David Beyer Jean-David Beyer @ 9:50 AM
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    Not the same Sierra Research...

    When I worked there, there were four different companies that had Sierra in their names that were loosely in the electronics business. When I was there, "my" Sierra Research made telemetry systems, instrumentation systems, automatic airplane landing systems, and stationkeeping radars for use mainly in navy helicopters involved in anti-submarine warfare. We even built a prototype heart pacer for Wilson Greatbatch, who had started a company to make those things. He was quite a guy: 

    http://www.hrsonline.org/News/ep-history/notable-figures/wilsongreatbatch.cfm

    Our company was named Sierra Research because the company president wanted to move the entire company out to Nevada at some point. This never happened. We did not intend to be a defense contractor, but only the government could afford our prices, so most of our work was defense-related. ;-)
  • JohnNY JohnNY @ 8:32 AM
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    To be clear.

    I'm starting a nice big heating job where the engineers spec'd Knight boilers, but truth be told, I've been installing TT boilers with minimal effort the last few years. I've also just returned from their 2-day TT Training class and have greater familiarity with the product and company than any other (mod-con) at this point.
    As a "certified" (or whatever I am now) company, the TT products I install are covered with a 2-year parts and labor warranty. My clients will appreciate that, I'm sure.

    So, I'm considering submitting a request to make the switch for the boiler, boiler control and indirect.

    Thanks for the input, friends.
  • tim smith tim smith @ 9:26 AM
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    Re: TT vs Lochinvar

    John, as you might remember, you know my preference would be TT. Why change from a piece of equipment that we know to be a reliable product. I don't think the engineer can argue the TT over the Loch but who knows. Tim
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