The Wall
Forum / Gas Heating / Carlin EZ Gas
  • Post a Reply to this Thread

    Carlin EZ Gas (15 Posts)

  • Carm Carm @ 8:00 AM
    Contact this user

    Carlin EZ Gas

    I am converting to a gas burner from an oil burner. I have a Weil McClain WTG0-5 boiler and a becket oil burner and i am installing a Carlin EZ-Gas conversion burner. The gas company has run the line to the house and i have run the line to the existing boilrer.The problem i'm having is the venting. I have the standard oil/ metal pipe vent to an existing cimnney. The supply house said i need to remove the existing damper and replace it with an electric automatic damper. They sold me the damper and the wiring harness for the unit. I have no idea how to connect the damper to the burner.Can anyone help?
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 10:53 AM
    Contact this user

    Someone does not

    have the correct information. The gas conversion burner requires a double acting barometric damper properly placed in a bull tee at the end of the flue pipe before it enters the boiler.

    Did Carlin preset this burner for use in the Weil McLain boiler?

    What aquastat relay do you have on the boiler?

    If you are going to also install the electric vent damper you will need a primary control(relay) with an adapter for plugging in the damper. What is the make of the electric damper?

    Now the most important question, have you ever installed a gas conversion burner before? Do you understand gas combustion principles? Do you have a electronic combustion analyzer?  If so do you know how to use it?

    If you can't answer these questions then you need some help from someone who can answer those questions.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 12:23 AM
    Contact this user

    We just installed an EZ-Gas

    on a Smith G-8 boiler, one of a bunch we've done. All have double-swing barometrics equipped with blocked-flue switches, as required by Code. Go here to see:

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/132181/Farewell-Mr-Snowman

    This kind of work requires a qualified professional. Always.

    Tim, as I understand it, gas-type automatic vent dampers are only approved for use with atmospheric boilers and furnasties. Has this changed?
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on October 9, 2010 12:27 AM.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 10:09 AM
    Contact this user

    No to the best of my

    knowledge it has not. However we now have Field (Effikal) offering a damper for oil which unless I am mistaken was not code approved in the past.

    The fact that a supply house gave this to the original poster here I would assume they know what they are doing, at least I would hope so.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 10:15 AM
    Contact this user

    Frank,

    if I am seeing the install in that picture correctly the barometric is in the wrong location for gas. It should be in a bull head tee so that it can dump into the room if there is a down draft or reverse chimney. Barometric locations are different for gas and oil. If you look in my book on conversion burners you will see illustrations A, B and C in the section on barometrics.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 1:27 PM
    Contact this user

    The manual for that burner

    dated 5-08, doesn't specify where the barometric should go except that it must be in the same space as the appliance. I don't have your book in front of me, but this is a power burner- I seem to remember the bullhead-tee arrangement was only for atmospherics? 
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on October 9, 2010 1:28 PM.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 4:46 PM
    Contact this user

    As we discussed on the phone Frank

    you may be correct. I will be with the rep from Carlin this coming Thursday and will get a direct answer from him as to desired location. I do know the best location is however the bull head tee so that is were I always tell folks to put it. I also realize sometimes there are space restrictions so an alternative location may be the only way to go.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:28 PM
    Contact this user

    As always

    It's a pleasure, Tim!
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 4:57 PM
    Contact this user

    Follow up on Barometric

    location. The folks from Carlin state that a conversion from oil to gas with Carlin EZ burner can have the barometric located in the same place as it is for oil. The only time it must be in a bull head tee is on an atmospheric burner. So I stand corrected.
    This post was edited by an admin on October 16, 2010 11:35 AM.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 12:25 AM
    Contact this user

    Thanks again, Tim

    you're the best!
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • archibald tuttle archibald tuttle @ 1:38 PM
    Contact this user

    rebooting this barometric thread . . .

    to reduce my bariatric tension . . . (well, that really should be gastronomic but I thought it was a better pun that way)

     just put an EZ Gas in place of an AFII (nice that the collar size on the AFII is also 3.5".  if you follow the threads that might the only good thing about that burner, easy to convert to EZ Gas, although it's been a good burner in this setting. worked flawlessly, but our energy policy hasn't so like many lemmings, its off to gas.

    the patient is an old three pass coaler with dual passages approaching a foot square.

    So I'm on to  setting draft for .02 over the fire, confirmed with Carlin that's a good target. and, as luck would have it on this antique, the baromertric regulator was already double swing. But got a couple Tim style questions.

    The only reason to have a double swing on an electronic ignition power burner that I can see is to provide placement for a spill switch. But I was trying to check with Field Controls on the proper placement of a spill switch so as to be effective but avoid impeding operation.  There really isn't that much area provided outside the swing to put these on easily.  I suppose I could one tab mount it hanging just off, although the flange doesn't help that.  I could work this out, but it just seems kind of clutzy and I was surprised not to find better provision made on gas rated draft regulators of this sort.  The guys at Field Controls I think misunderstood what I needed because they referred me to a kit with a draft sensing diaphragm designed to be installed with a power venter.

    So, its back to the boards to see if I'm missing some obvious mount or style of switch that would go slick, or maybe there are manufactuers other than Field Controls making two-way sneeze through wind vents (a little homage to my ute) with premounted spills or designed with mounting in mind.

    And while I"m at it, if you notice the size of the passages on this boiler, i.e few and large, vs. many and smaller as on newer boilers, the previous oil servicing had involved the highly scientific placement of a few bricks in the near the back of the last pass to achieve better dwell for flu gases. I tried to improve on this by standing up a couple core bricks so that the exhaust flow wouldn't be channeled all to the top. Don't know if that really will make any difference in terms of chaotic air flow on heat exchanging surfaces although it got me thinking that since there is so much chimney draft (3 story lined brick) and I'm dumping so much draft with the regulator, maybe I should try for some kind of metal plate actually cut to fit the passage with an even pattern of holes.

    At least access is fairly easy, for experimentation, but I'm wondering if anyone has gotten into this part of the lost arts.

    Best regards
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 4:03 PM
    Contact this user

    As one who has

    put in thousands of conversion burners both atmospheric (the old Bryants, Janitrols, Roberts Gordon etc.) I would not put a power burner into a boiler that old. As to barometric it is required to be double swing so as to prevent a back draft from entering the combustion chamber. It has nothing to do with mounting of the spill switch. You can put it just about anywhere you want on the barometric it will work fine.

    The insertion of baffling in these old coal boilers requires being professionally trained along with the requirement to build a fire box if it is a dry base boiler or if wet-base at least a target wall with proper "corbeling". This is why a run a three day course on installation, servicing of gas conversion burners. Placement of firebricks is something handed down to us from the old timers who I was fortunate enough to work with three of them who were real pros' Brick placement can get you into trouble if not placed properly and tested correctly.

    You seem like you are into something you are not real sure about so stop and get someone involved who has done these conversions. What is your location?
  • archibald tuttle archibald tuttle @ 7:57 PM
    Contact this user

    how do you distinguish oil and gas power burners for these purposes

    It has had an oil power burner for 50 years. It never had a flower petal style conversion (got 2 of those elsewhere myself. Trying to find the old power pile style safeties for one of those can eat up a day or two, although I guess I should respect how robust they are to still be in service 60 or 70 years after install.

    I understand that the positive swing is to prevent drafts entering,  but in an electronic ignition power burner circumstance, I will admit I'm trying to reason what the concern is with a brief downdrafts entering. Maybe as I reason it through myself, there might be more chance with fuel entering the chamber at the relatively lower pressure of the forced combustion air that you could get blowback of unburnt fuel into the building in extreme circumstances.  doesn't seem like a high probability, but maybe that is a factor. I just like to know why things are done a certain way, and this is one that none of my plumbers have been able to answer, other than to say its the rule. 

    I am absolutely sure someone who has done so many of these would have a lot better understanding of the art of slowing flu gases in these older boilers.  The guy who started with the bricks on this one was a tech for an oil service company and seemed to me to be applying something between a rule of thumb and a lost art.

    So I'm not out to push  the limits of what could be done in terms of [way] aftermarket flue restriction without just the kind of advice you're talking about. And would like to learn more about target walls.  So for all essential purposes these passages are open and I may be spending more fuel than I should be I don't want to restrict them aggressively without spending some time with someone who has married a theoretical and emperical skill in this area.

    This is a wet base boiler, The fire chamber is 4' and deep, and 3' wide and 2' high. I drilled the burner mounting plate and installed a fireglass so I was able to observe that the oil burner was not firing against the rear wall or the sides.  It is likely that a target wall could have increased heat dispersion in the fire chamber and improved efficiency but I wasn't worried about significant flame etching or damage to the boiler. I wasn't expecting a gas conversion to present any particularly greater challenges than the oil conversions. But I have kind of got myself thinking about working on the flue on that 'while you're there' theory.

     I can appreciate that there may not be an answer to the questions I asked about flues besides spend some time with folks who have had experience at this.  Although I'm likely to loose a couple of the conversions I manage, one because the building is slated to be torn down and the other is in hydronic service, not steam, and slated to be replaced with a modcon, I might still be interested enough, avocationally, to take your course if it comes to southern new england where I reside.

    thanks,

    brian
  • kcopp kcopp @ 8:49 PM
    Contact this user

    Tim is out....

    of Rhode Island.... all the time.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:52 PM
    Contact this user

    Go to Providence

    to train with Tim. It's well worth it!
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  •  
Post a Reply to this Thread