Heating Help

honeywell 8184G

Ok, so I know some of these oil primaries are garbage.  I mean the last one I put in said new improved design.....2 year warranty. Thats it!??  It seems like they sh#t the bed a lot, and from my experience it is either very obvious (nothing happens when there is a call for heat)  or it is an intermittent problem that usually happens when I'm not there. Other than making sure everything else is ok i.e proper pump pressure, clean cad cell, clean nozzle/filter/heat ex/flue, proper electrode setting, proper vacuum level, draft/smoke co2 etc, does anyone have any diagnostic tips for the control portion of the oil burners?  Are there resistance tests to do?  Does a sudden lockout mid-cycle with proper flame/draft/smoke/pump pressure/new cad cell definitely signify a bad control or am I missing something?
 

Probably does

and this would be a good time to upgrade to one of the newer electronic primaries. Honeywell or Beckett R7184, Beckett GeniSys, Carlin 60000 series, Honeywell R7284 all have some degree of self-diagnostics built into them. They must, however, be properly grounded.

For example, even with a basic one like the R7184, you can get an idea of the flame quality via the cad-cell.

Also, and perhaps more important, the newer primaries have shorter trial-for-ignition periods- 15 seconds instead of 45 or 70 seconds. This greatly reduces the chance of a puffback if the burner doesn't ignite properly.

What type of combustion analyzer do you use?

Just an thought.

Del,

I have had several instances over the years where I would get interrmittent lockouts mid run.  On occassion it has been an oil problem.  Usually a clogged or clogging oil line, between the burner/s and tank.
If the primary has dropped out mid run, then usually rapping it with a leatherman or screwdriver will bring the contacts back in.  If so then change it.  If not then look at the oil side.

You are right, the quality of the primary controls produced in the early 2000's was very poor.  There are better options available to us now.

8184G

If you are getting lockouts while running, and it is a "lockout" while running and you are standing there when it does it, try this.
Take a ohm meter and clip it to the cad cell wires and jump the  FF terminals AFTER the burner starts. Check the reading. A 8184 should trip out at 1500 Ohms. A Carlin 602000 at 1600 Ohms. It should be running at anywhere between 500 and 1000 ohms. At least that works for me. You can "see" what appears to be a perfectly fine flame but the "eye" sees something else. If you have an application with excessive draft over the fire, it can "shade" it. I found a SS-1 Side Shot that went off intermittently for years. Carlin EZ-1 with 602000  control. I tried everything for years. Nothing stopped it. Sometimes it went 3 months, sometimes it went 3 weeks. Sometimes it went three days. When it started to lock out 20 seconds after establishing flame, and I was desperate, I tried that. What an interesting experience. I ended up putting a second draft control (RC) to control the excessive draft. I was showing 1400 ohms with good combustion results. not great but good. Great with the second RC and 900 ohms. And it hasn't locked out since.
Firedragon has a thing about it but I saw it somewhere else years ago.
I check every flame that way now as a back up.

Has anyone else

Had prob;ems with the beckett nx . I was called out afew years ago close to christmass. Johnny home owner, who was a commercial plumber just finished putting in a new veissmen with a nx. He couldnt get the thing to stay lite, so he called me. Cad cell problems, i couldnt get a good enough reading 2200 omhs. I knew that the burner was too restrictive and not let;n enough lite back ( i really wanted to drill some quarter inch holes in the turbulator, but thats goin;2 hurt the combustion process too much). I almost jammed a stack relay on (also a bad idea) I ended up putting on a white rodgers cad cell and harness plus a bad ass white paint job inside the blast tube. Got the reading down to 1800omhs, but it was staying lit. A phone call to beckett turned out they have the fix./.............a glass turbulator.......real nice to know..but you know how it is if you dont ask the manufacture they dont tell. I only have ran into 3 of these nx burners and all 3 i have installed this glass turbulator (takes her down to 500ohms). Im with ice its good practice to always check the cad cell reading to avoid future problems.

Beckett NX

Your not the only one.  I prefer that boiler with a Riello.  But the ones that I have out there with the NX have caused problems.  There is an old style and new style drawer assembly.  The old style only had a peep hole for the cad cell to try and look through (fat chance of lining that thing up).  The new style has a little better adjustment and a 9 slot head. 

Also, Viessmann has been great about sending Stainless Steel chambers for those when asked.  After adding the SS can and the new drawer assenbly, things seem to run much better.

All the new installs get a Riello on that boiler, no exceptions.

cad cell

still have had problems with the "updated" tube assemblies on NX. Only fix I found to work was to gun mount the cad cell eye/holder. Takes a couple of extra seconds to remove the gun for servicing, but put an end to the call backs due to ohm readings.

i hate the nx

its a true reillo knock off. I love the af and afg burners, have had greatt luck with them. But if its a viessman, i have to agree a reillo is a must.

Thanks

Great discussion everyone, thanks for the tips/ideas. As for the combustion analyzer, I use the bachrach kit. I know it is a PITA, but I don't mind it. I've got digital tools for almost everything else(manometer etc.) so doing a few things the old school way is ok with me.

8184G

Del,
I like my Bachrach too. I don't do enough tests per year to justify aan electronic but I'm afraid I will be forced into it because of all the gas I am starting to need to do.

Just got the new Wohler

Just got the new Wohler combustion analyzer/bread slicer/vega-matic.  This thing does everything but change the tank filter for me.

Just kidding, the thing is amazing though. 

It does all the Oils 1-4, LPG, Natural, and Kero.  Instant response to adjustments.  It even has a little wireless printer that spits out a copy of the test reults that I leave with the boiler paperwork.   I am getting lazy.  I haven't had my Bacharach out of the van in almost a month.

The price tag hit me hard though.