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    Which LWCO? CG400 1060 or 2090 (8 Posts)

  • SolarGuy SolarGuy @ 1:05 PM
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    Which LWCO? CG400 1060 or 2090

    I would like to install a Hydro level CG400 LWCO to a steam boiler. How do I know if I should install the CG400-1060 or the CG400-2090? Its a Weil Mclain PEG30 so only about 60,000 btu, 8 gal of water content and 5 rads.

    Thanks.
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 11:11 PM
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    here's the spec sheet ....

    which describes the differences in the 4 different models ...
    http://www.hydrolevel.com/new/images/literature/spec_sheets/cyclegard_spec_sheet.pdf

    if it were me, i'd want the 1560 or the 2060 .. i think this is the "foam test" feature .. where it will shut the boiler down every X minutes and check for Y seconds to make sure you have actual water "not just foam" .. my preference would be to have that check happen as infrequently as possible.. at least now we know what the model numbers describe .. i'm not sure what the industry (or wall) preference is for "burner off foam checking".

    most boiler runs don't last 50mins (at least in my limitied experience) .. so the 1560 would likely not shut you down very often .. and if it does, for only 60secs .. 1090 sounds very extreme to me.

    anyone else have best practice thoughts on the foam checking function of the CG400s?
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • MarkS MarkS @ 5:53 AM
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    2060

    My boiler had the 2060 model when it was installed in 2009. You're right JP, this is the foam test feature. In the case of the 2060, it shuts the boiler down every 20 minutes for 60 seconds. So just when you've built up a good head of steam, BAM, shutdown, foam test. I ran a test with dataloggers last year and determined that the system takes 3 minutes or so to recover from the shutdown. By "recover", I mean that the temperatures at the measured locations reached their pre-shutdown values.

    These units are fine if the HO isn't in the habit of regularly checking the boiler water. I wound up replacing mine with a SafeGard model that doesn't have the foam test feature.
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • MarkS MarkS @ 5:53 AM
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    2060

    [spurious double post deleted]
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
    This post was edited by an admin on December 20, 2010 5:53 AM.
  • SolarGuy SolarGuy @ 10:39 AM
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    why

    What caused you to remove the LWCO you had and install one without the timed shut down feature?  Thats what I have now.  The water drops done out of the sight glass when boiling and the LWCO does not shut down the boiler, so I suspect foaming. I have cleaned the boiler several times, but it still does it.

    Thanks.
  • MarkS MarkS @ 9:28 PM
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    Fuel economy

    I check my boiler water level and quality regularly, and don't have any problems with foaming, so for me it came down to an issue of fuel (oil) economy. On a 45 minute heat cycle, the LWCO would shut the boiler down twice to do the foam check. Each time it did, the system took three minutes to heat back up to where it was before the shutdown. That's an extra six minutes of fuel burned recovering from the foam test in a single heat cycle. If that happens four times a day during the heavy heating season (say 12 weeks), that's 24 minutes * 12 weeks * 7 days = 2016 mins or 33.6 hours or roughly a week's worth of extra fuel used per season. That's why I opted to swap out the CycleGard for a SafeGard.

    So back to your system. Let me say first that I'm not a pro, just a homeowner/enthusiast. From what you've described, my first concern is if your LWCO is working properly. Has the LWCO probe been cleaned/inspected recently, and has the LWCO been tested to ensure that it does in fact cut out on low water?

    Is your normal water line at the recommended height when the boiler is not firing? According to the installation manual for your boiler, the water line should be 23-13/16 inches from the bottom of the boiler section leg, where it rests on the boiler room floor or boiler foundation.

    Page 16 of the manual talks about installing an optional "reservoir pipe" if the time it takes the condensate to return to the boiler is longer than 10 minutes. This may or may not apply to your situation, but if it does it might explain why your water level drops (although it doesn't explain why the LWCO doesn't cut off).

    When the boiler fires up how long does it take for the water to drop out of the sight glass? When it shuts down, how long does it take the water level return to normal?

    Please post some pictures of your boiler so we can see what you're dealing with, including the LWCO, the sight glass, the near-boiler piping and the risers to the mains for starters.
    Homeowner, Royersford PA | 1890 one-pipe steam system | 3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE5200S boiler
    NEW Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    607 sf EDR connected load | Operating pressure: 0.5 oz/in2
    Four main runs (insulated) totaling 135 ft in length | All Gorton vents on mains & rads |
    A Steam Odyssey | Odyssey 2 | A Steam Enthusiast's Outdoor Reset Control
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 1:18 AM
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    NO Teflon!

    I hear there should be NO TEFLON TAPE on the probe threads .. the tape could interfere with the contact needed between probe and casting. 
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • SolarGuy SolarGuy @ 10:31 AM
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    new boiler

    I should have said this is a brand new boiler installation. Piping was existing, but everything else is new. The factory installed the LWCO.  It takes about 20 min to produce enough steam for heat, but after about the 10 the water level starts to bounce and slowly drops down below the sight glass.  There is a time delay on the LWCO (according to the tech at Hydrolevel) the delays the auto feed from adding water right away.  I have not timed how long it takes for the condensate to return.  I am away for Xmas but when I return next week can post a pic.

    Thanks
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