The Wall
Forum / Strictly Steam / I assisted today at catholic school in Brooklyn ...
  • Post a Reply to this Thread

    I assisted today at catholic school in Brooklyn ... (8 Posts)

  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 9:35 PM
    Contact this user

    I assisted today at catholic school in Brooklyn ...

    retired catholic school in brooklyn being repurposed as artist space ...

    BACKGROUND
    + 2 boilers .. 14section HB Smiths (Mills 450) .. each rated for 9,225sq ft of steam .. http://www.smithboiler.com/html/mills4500A.asp
    + Carlin 1050 #2 Oil burners .. underfired ~7gph .. hi/lo/hi inoperable (only hi likely due to underfire and 0-15psi pressuretrol setup)
    + 1-pipe steam .. 36 classrooms + Modines in the basement .. not sure of total EDR .. corner classrooms with 4 rads, others classrooms with 2 rads + stairways, halls and bathrooms.
    + 141pieces of  2-column true-steam rads
    + main venting/system venting .. lacking severely ..
    + fuhgedahbout any kind of system balancing ..

    The previous knuckleheads had stuck a condensate pump on the end of return .... with sarco traps and strainers prior to pump .. guess what .. pump kept returns dry .. and it was jackhammer city in the basement. End of 2 mains joined above water line (well the returns were dry, everything was above waterline) causing short-circuit of steam.

    1 major leak in under-floor/buried in soil pipe and minor leak in 3" return line coupling. boiler would be overfilled each day and lose it's full load within 5hrs of steaming.

    some radiators in school stone cold .. first priority of the Parish is to heat all rads.

    Proposal for work (originally penned by me)...PREVIOUS NOTES IN RED, CURRENT IN BLUE
    The outline of work to be performed is as follows:
        Pastor's/System Goals:
            1) provide heat to all upstairs radiators in a timely and efficient fashion
            2) fix leaks to eliminate loss of system water
            3) attain high/lo/high firing to decrease fuel consumption

        Methods:
            To address full system heating:
       
        1) Cut out boiler room return traps/strainers, abandon return pump,
    join return pipes in boiler room, return water through pipe on floor of
    boiler room DONE
            2) Install "False Water Line"/Gifford Loop to
    fill returns above raised return section in far music studio and "joined
    returns" at end of mains DONE..FALSE WATER LINE SET AT 71" FROM FLOOR..THIS HEIGHT PROPERLY FILLS FAR MAIN CROSSOVER CONNECTION.


            To address timely/efficient steam delivery to system radiators:
       
        1) Install capacious venting at end of mains and/or other vent
    points in basement using adequately sized Gorton #2s vent trees DONE 16 pieces in total in various locations throughout basement
       
        2) Drill and tap and vent risers on 4th floor if possible/accessible
    to deliver steam quickly to the risers. 4th Flr Riser Venting to be
    installed would be Gorton Ds or Gorton 1s unless it is
    determined/feasible to install Gorton #2s. DONE .. only in back of school that was NOT getting any heat
            3) Double check and ensure that all abandoned zone valves are as completely open as possible. DONE
            **** Radiator venting maintenance and Radiator Supply Valve maintenance would be the responsibility of school staff. ****

            To address leaks:
            1) Fix leaking coupling in area of stacked desks (boiler room side) **** school staff responsibilty to clear desks DONE .. it had a sand hole

            2) Fix leaking flange-union in area of stacked desks (end of mains side) **** school staff responsibilty to clear desks DONE
       
        3) Fix leaking pipes/fittings on semi-buried return outside boiler
    room consider removal of soil from around the pipes to eliminate
    accelerated future leaking. Use some kind of lining or blocking as/if
    appropriate to eliminate contact of pipes with soil/concrete. LEAK FIXED, CONCRETE LINING ON MONDAY

            4) Fix leaking valve/vent above music studio control room door near end-of mains. DONE


            To address hi/low/hi in order to decrease fuel consumption:
       
        1) Install new nozzles to deliver proper amount of fuel to the
    boiler .. currently 4 hi/4 hi /9.5 (low) (17.5gph) proposed 4.5 hi/4.5
    hi/12 (low) (21gph) .. all current nozzles are SS-45deg NOZZLES PURCHASED 7H/7H/9.5L .. DIFFERENT NOZZLES TO BE PURCHASED .. 7/7/9.5 would not get clean
            2) Retune combustion settings as necessary ..
            3) Adjust pressure controls/install vaporstats to allow switching from low fire to high fire based on system pressure. VAPORSTATS INSTALLED AND ROUGHLY ADJUSTED .. ONGOING .. may need 0-16oz for LHL rather than the currently installed 0-4psi
            4) Mark proper boiler waterline for proper water fill maintenance on sight-glass. WATERLINE
    TO BE HELD AT 69" FROM FLOOR USING MANUAL RESET AUTOFEED (MM 247-2) (AUTOFEED ON
    MONDAY)...WATER USE METER TO BE INSTALLED TO TRACK FRESH WATER INFLOW .. DONE .. Istec 1701 meter installed.

    NEW ITEM: Install Garber Spin on Oil filter (11BV-MK) as an additional secondary filter.
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
    This post was edited by an admin on January 24, 2011 3:02 AM.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 10:41 PM
    Contact this user

    Let us know

    how well it works!
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 10:48 PM
    Contact this user

    oh yeah .. forget daily status update...

    Today we made significant progress. We eliminated the
    pump, installed the false water line, installed new 0-4psi vaporstats to
    replace old 0-15psi pressuretrols and fixed the leak in buried line. The
    buried leak was significant and required digging up and
    replacing the underfloor pipe from the exterior wall to the oil
    tank wall. They will line the bottom of the trenches with cement.




    On Monday, they will install the auto waterfeed (MM 247-2) and water use
    meter. And fix the leak on the 3" line.
    Perhaps on Monday, but likely another day, the
    boiler firing will be corrected and set the pressure controls for Hi/Lo/Hi firing.
    Also on another day (since the G#2 order is only being delivered on
    Wednesday next week) the venting will be addressed on the mains
    and the top of the risers.



    Upon leaving today, there was no knocking whatsoever due to the
    returns now being properly filled with water rather than empty.
    Unfortunately, the cold rads in the restrooms and some classrooms were still stone cold. We feel that proper boiler firing and system
    venting will correct these rads.

    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 2:48 AM
    Contact this user

    school update ...

    + all significant leaks have been fixed
    + MM 247-2 manual reset LWCO/auto-feed installed at proper water-line height.
    + Istec 1701 water meter installed on feedline.
    + 16 Gorton #2s installed throughout various points in basement .. one at bottom of each riser, end of mains, etc.
    + top-floor-minus-1 risers drilled, tapped & vented
    + overhead boiler room zone valves (operationally abandoned) fully opened by hand

    today was the first days in probably YEARS that the system was silent and that heat was delivered to rads that haven't seen heat in years.

    Unfortunately, the work isn't quite complete since the boiler firing needs to be tune in. Being that today was sunday, the necessary nozzles for final adjustments weren't available since the houses were closed. the nozzles which were originally  purchased (2pcs of 7gph), couldn't provide a clean fire. As well, the 9.5gph low fire nozzle wouldn't hold the steam. The original firing rate of 17.5-High does not make enough steam to heat both the front and back of the school .. the 23gph it was fired at today couldn't get cleaned up (but provided enough steam for the entire school) .. the thought is to shoot for around 20/21gphHigh and bring the Low up to around 11/12.

    I have updated the TOP post with the original scope of work in BLUE ABOVE

    I will report as this is completed.
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
    This post was edited by an admin on January 24, 2011 3:04 AM.
  • Steve Steve @ 8:41 AM
    Contact this user

    Pics?

    How about some pics of the work? Include one of the outside of the building.
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 11:16 PM
    Contact this user

    pics and you shall receive....

    Here are the pics, nothing really earth shattering ..
    http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/StCSSchool?authkey=Gv1sRgCJv7mq3EuMPKcw#

    Sorry No pics of below items...
    3" returns most everywhere.
    9" headers from each boiler.
    everyone's seen pics of G#2s so I left them out.
    operational modines throughout basement.
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
    This post was edited by an admin on January 24, 2011 11:16 PM.
  • Dave in QCA Dave in QCA @ 11:04 AM
    Contact this user

    Fantastic!!

    JP, fantastic project, and sounds like you hit every issue precisely!  I thought you were just a homeowner of a steam system.  Is steam work a new venture for you?  I am interested in this subject, as I see a very large amount of bad work here in the Quad Cities.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • jpf321 jpf321 @ 11:33 PM
    Contact this user

    got bit by the bug hard ...

    my wife too thought I was just a happy homeowner .. until she started losing me to boiler rooms of friends and family .. the Pastor of this Parish school was my 2nd Grade Phys Ed instructor and he presided at my sister's wedding this past summer .. of course we got to talking bout steam over dinner ..

    fortunately, i'm a bit of an apprentice/assistant/gopher with one of the best commercial steam men/heating mechanics in NYC. i have the pleasure of being closely involved in the work when I stumble upon an interesting project, often because I am usually the main personal contact (sister's building, this school, the bronx brothers, etc.) and the friends and family expects me to walk the walk since I talk the talk.

    i am privileged to have access to all the right introductions, and meet all the various supply house guys .. (they seem to take you more seriously when you are hunting around for a 12gph Hago nozzle or picking up an order for 20pcs of G#2 and walk in with a Brooklyn Diocese Tax Exempt form.)

    i have learned so much..and although my wife misses me, i love the involvement and the experience.
    Entire Site | MAIN WALL | Strictly Steam | Off-Wall

    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC
    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph
    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains
    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    venting worksheet download | Lost Art Of Steam Heating | my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics | old patents | pipe size chart | Copper Size Chart: K,L,M
    This post was edited by an admin on January 24, 2011 11:35 PM.
  •  
Post a Reply to this Thread