purging air from the basement
Hello,
I have a Home Run system with a Triangle Tube boiler, Indirect
water heater. I have 3 zones (2 floors and the basement; basement is
not yet connected)
The problem is that it looks like that I need to add something to my
system in order I could purge the system from the air from my basement
without going to each radiator/baseboard on the floor.
I will appreciate if people on this forum can take a look at the pictures
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ionedited.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/f/69/indirectwaterheateredit.jpg/
and advise me on what should I add and exactly at where in the system in order to do a air purging.
Thank you
Vad
You've already got everything you need
To the left of the black box is a yellow handled ball valve and directly above it, a purge cock. You have to think like water Grasshopper. You flow from high pressure to low pressure...
Close the ball valve, attach drain hose to purge cock, place other end of hose SECURELY near suitable drain. CLose ball valves serving other two previously purged circuits, and open valve for new circuit. Let run till no more bubbles
Repeat this for other two circuits. Place all valves back in normal position.
ME.
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
Re
Thank you a lot, Mark
This is grate! Do I need to have working ot I can shut it off? Do I need circulators working or it does not matter since water has enough pessure by itself?
To start, I should close that yellow handle valve and open (Position O for Taco model) water feed valne. Correct?
Regards, Vad
Generally speaking...
Purging SHOULD be done with the pumps OFF. In your case, it doesn't matter.
Your other assumptions are correct. Never shut off the drain valve with the fill bypass on or your relief valve will get tested...
ME
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
Generally speaking...
Caffine finger...
D.P.
ME
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
This post was edited by an admin on October 3, 2011 10:44 AM.
Mark, thank you again.
Mark, thank you again. It was late and I did not formulate the last question well.
Does it matter if the boiler is on or off during the air purging? Should I make sure that Differential pressure bypass valve is off?
Regards,
Vad
Off Off Off Cold Cold Cold
Purge with cold water into a cold boiler. Don't add cold water to a hot boiler unless you want to scare the crap out of yourself. And don't ask how I know.
I disconnect the burner and run the pumps for a while until the water temp drops to 100 degrees or less. Then it is safe to purge. It is not enough to simply turn the power off you have to make sure the boiler has cooled.
Be the water.
And if you have never done it before practice it out. Make sure you understand where the water is flowing. As mentioned in an earlier post. You don't want to open the city water supply into your boiler system without having a way for it to flow out.
also
Indeed, what Chasman said. Also, shut down the pressure differential valve when purging and you may as well leave it off because its not doing anything the way it is. Hopefully the circulators came with IFC's and are sized correctly for each zone. Pressure differential valves are used when one large pump is used for multiple zones to meet proper flow rates. Also, the closely placed tees of your primary loop to the boiler are too close to the elbow of the secondary loop, I'd move the tees up to right below the ball valve. You want a run ideally of 12" on each side of the tees to hydraulically isolate the primary loop from the secondary loop. Dan.s book, Primary/Secondary Pumping Made Easy that is sold on this site, beautifully illustrates the principal. Consider a low loss header to get rid of a lot of that piping and it can provide pri/sec and air elimination.
This post was edited by an admin on October 3, 2011 4:28 PM.
Direction of Flow?
Are your circs pumping up or down? If up, then the direction of flow in the boiler loop is wrong, in addition to being too close to the Ell as Slim has pointed out.
Bob
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
I am a bit confused
As for as I know, circs are pumping up. I will double check, but I am sure 99.9%
I updated the picture making flow direction and writing a bit clearer
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/editprevieww.jpg/
This system was working for a year without issues.
Are you talking about 12'' space between circuits with circs? I will verify the distance.
I do not get where is suggested to move Primary circuit. I only see that it can be moved to the left closer to the air separator. Sorry for diletant questions. I will look at the other book I have (Modern Hydronic and Heating)
I appreciate your input
Clarification
When I say the primary loop, I,m referring to the loop attached to the board from which the circs. Tee into. The boiler injects into this loop through the two closely spaced Tee's at the bottom left. We are not always consistent as pro's in our designation of what the primary loop is. If the boiler piped directly from its supply to its return with the zones Tee'd off of that loop, then the boiler loop would be the primary in my understanding.
Now, looking at
your primary, the flow is counter clockwise if the circs. are pumping upward. The boiler is injecting through the bottom Tee and returning through top. This is correct if the circs. are pumping upward. I mis-read your drawing on my last post. My apology. You should however have a minimum of 4 pipe diameters between the bottom Tee and the Ell, and a minimum of 8 pipe diameters above the upper Tee and any Ell's. The upper side looks OK, but the bottom is too close to the Ell.
As already pointed out, the bypass valve is not necessary. In fact, you could cut off the portion of the primary loop that is to the right off the circs. and manifolds and cap it, top and bottom, since there is no flow in that portion. Or, you can simply leave the bypass closed off. :)
Bob
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
Oh, what a relief :)
I verified that circs are pumping upwards.
If my supply tee too close to the bottom Ell, what is affected? Should I really warry about it? Just in case, My circs are Taco 007 F5
regarding the Differential pressure bypass valve. I have 3 zones with termostats and each zone have multiple circuits (to each heat emitter). Each heat emitter has Termostatic (non electric) valve. I am under impression that if termostatic valves are closed on most of emitters this valve opens and let water flowing from bottom (supply) to the top (return) part of the Primary. Am I wrong or you want to say that water any way will get back to the return pipe by rising from the bottom of the circuits and getting to the second tee of the return pipe on the left?
Thank you a lot
Regards,
Vad
Bypass
You'll need a bypass if you have TRV's. However, your photo is not clear to me regarding the connections around your manifolds and the top of the primary loop. Can you post another photo showing that area more clearly or a diagram?
Bob
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
