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    Mandated reset controls in 2012 (14 Posts)

  • pipe4zen pipe4zen @ 9:48 PM
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    Mandated reset controls in 2012

    Where can I find info on 2012 mandatory reset control on heating equipment.
    Is this only for boilers, or all equipment. Are they defining reset for outdoor, indoor, boiler etc.
  • Mike Kusiak Mike Kusiak @ 8:46 AM
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    New rules

    This seems to explain it a bit:

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/139046/Very-good-article
  • Jim Hankinson Jim Hankinson @ 9:06 AM
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    Efficiency rule

    Outdoor reset is one option for meeting the efficiency requirement for 2012 but not the only one. A purge control is another option.
  • STEVEusaPA STEVEusaPA @ 1:33 PM
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    This month's

    ICM (Indoor Comfort Marketing) did a whole story on this, although there still seems to be more questions then answers...
    steve
  • Chris Chris @ 7:38 PM
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    Means

    You must have some type of means to prevent the burner from firing when the system temperature is capable of heating the space or zone. Does not necenssarily mean outdoor reset.

    Ithink the biggest change for contractors is going to be piping. Boiler protection will be a must.

    http://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2008/07/28/E8-17222/energy-conservation-program-for-consumer-products-energy-conservation-standards-for-residential
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    This post was edited by an admin on December 16, 2011 7:40 PM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 8:40 AM
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    (Mandated) Re-set:

    Sounds to me that a 4-way mixer could become the gold standard of hydronic heating and bring almost any existing hydronic system up to the 2015 standards at a small cost.
  • bob bob @ 12:54 PM
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    question

    What does inferred heat load infer ?
    bob
  • icesailor icesailor @ 1:15 PM
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    Inferred heat load:

    Probably the amount of energy needed to be put into the heating median (air or water) to equal the heat loss to the outside through the building.
    The higher the outside temperature, the lower the median temperature needed. As the temperature goes, the higher the median temperature.
  • croydoncorgi croydoncorgi @ 7:14 PM
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    Why 4-way mixer

    In my limited experience of where these have been used in a high-efficiency system, they've been a big problem!  The issue is that you definitely do not want to recycle hot water from the Flow straight back to the boiler (which is what a 4-way valve usually does...).  If any blending function is needed, better use a 3-way blending valve.  Ideally, adjust the temperature of the whole system down, starting with the furnace. 
    Then you've got some hope of keeping the Return temperature low enough to allow condensing to occur.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 10:13 PM
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    4 way mixers

    In my opinion, the Taco "I" 4-way valve is a beautiful thing. The inside machining is a beautiful thing. You/I piped it as a primary. secondary piping with two circulators. The supply and return on this gravity system is 4" pipe with 1 1/2 or 1 1/4" to the radiators. Before I got there last year, it has a Peerless boiler running at 180 degrees. I dropped it down to 160 degrees. Installed the mixer. The boiler pump was the one that pumped the system. A Taco 010. Closely spaced tees, the valve, and a WILO Star 21 3-speed. wired together. The house heats very evenly at the low temperature. It was once a coal fired gravity system. The boiler was running at 170 degrees, the system was running at 120 degrees out and 100 degrees back.  It was 26 degrees outside. There's none of what you are talking about. They offer a 3-Way. The 4-way works better. It comes with sensor and boiler protection so it will never run the boiler cold. You can set it for 120 degrees for gas and 140 degrees for gas.
    In my opinion, the valve becomes a form of hydraulic separator. With parallel flow.
    This post was edited by an admin on December 19, 2011 10:15 PM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 10:18 PM
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    High Mass System:

    This is a Mega High Mass system.
    This is an energy saving measure in an oil boiler and a non condensing system.
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 8:48 AM
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    Ummm, seems to be some language confusion....

    Croydoncorgi must not be aware that we are still allowed to sell and set boilers of a lesser non condensing efficiency. Rediculous, I know. We JUST adopted a minimum efficiency standard of 82%. How's THAT for proactive legislation :-)

    WHen modcons first showed up on the market over 10 years ago, I said that within 10 years, they (modcons) would be a minimum STANDARD in the next 10 years... Here we are, over 10 years later, and we JUST got around to adopting 82% as our flagship minimum efficiency standard...

    I've not used anything BUT modcons since they first came out, but our legislators have a lot of catching up to do.

    I heard the other day that Canada dropped out of the Kioto Protocal Reform Standard.

    Ice was talking about applying the 4 way valve to an lesser efficiency oil boiler.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Roland Roland @ 8:34 AM
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    Philosophical question.........

    There has been a fair amount of discussion on this board about the future of hydronic heating. At times I side with those who are staunch advocates of things modern and crammed with high technology. At other times I see the wisdom of those who advocate for keeping things simple. Then there are the quiet wise ones who say, 'it depends'.
    Putting aside the nuts and bolts evidence, what is it that most influences our choices of wether to stay with that which mature and proven or to embrace the new and cutting edge?
    I want to take this oportunity to thank everyone (..........) who generously contribute to this forum.
    Happy holidays, Roland.......
  • Jean-David Beyer Jean-David Beyer @ 10:26 AM
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    I go with what Albert Einstein said.

    Presumably, Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." As a homeowner, I am conflicted about this, but when it was new boiler time, I got a W-M Ultra 3 mod-con with outdoor reset. It is quite high tech. I wanted the high efficiency, and my main heat load is radiant slab at grade, so it should run at 93% or better for that zone. I also put in about triple the baseboard I need in the zone heated by baseboard to get the return water temperature down from there.

    It seems to me that in spite of the high tech, most of the tech is in the controller, called the U-control. My computer is higher tech than that, and it has been running 24/7 since about March 2004. My other computer has been running 24/7 since early 2000. All they needed was new fans, new floppy drives (now removed), and new CD-ROM drives. It is the moving parts that kill you, not the electronics.

    The thing I would most worry about with my boiler is if a surge takes out the U-control. I have had a whole house surge protector installed in my main power panel. It takes only a few minutes to replace the U-control, though paying for one would not be a pleasure. The other thing that may be a weak spot, is the aluminum heat exchanger. It is, physically, a very simple thing with no moving parts. I imagine the only things that could go wrong with it are corrosion  on the water side (I check the pH in between the annual service, and there is Sentinal X-100 in there too, and burning the pins off on the fire side. And the annual service gets the fire side cleaned each time.

    I suppose the inducer motor (if that is the proper term for what it does) or the gas valve could go, but that could happen to a regular gas boiler as well. Likewise, the circulators could wear out. They are all Taco 007 model. The boiler circulator is standard, and the other three are IFC. So my system would be pretty much the same if I had a low tech boiler in there.
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