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    Munchkin 199 Circulation problem (20 Posts)

  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 11:26 PM
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    Munchkin 199 Circulation problem

    Hello wall, I have a Munchkin 199 about 6 years old. It seems to be running fine, display shows 135 to 145 temp, hot water is fine which is a zone off the boiler, house has 5 zones, water seems to be going out hot ok, but doesn't seem to be coming back warm from some of the zones, bedrooms of course, one zone, the garage, seems to come back pretty warm. I did have an f09 and or f11 code over the past couple weeks, any help is appreciated greatly, thanks!
    This post was edited by an admin on February 8, 2012 6:04 AM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 6:09 AM
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    199 Problems:

    The piping flow issues are one thing. The fault codes are another more important issue.
    The boiler needs to be serviced SOON. The drain may not be working as well as it is supposed to. Condensate water can be backing up into the chamber. There could be "coffee grounds" blocking the spaces between the tubes. F-11 is seeing a flame when there isn't supposed to be one. Never a good sign. F-09 is flame going out or not being established. Both show a need for service. Do it soon or it could get more expensive.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 6:12 AM
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    199

    I understand...
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 7:18 AM
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    Taco SR506 Priority Zone 6

    OK, my boiler is hooked up to a Taco SR 506 and it has priority switch for zone 6, which is hot water. Apparently ,whatever needs to get satisfied to tell it the hot water is OK isn't getting satisfied and it is causing the zones to not turn on to heat the house. I switched priority off and the zone valves started right up. The water tank is a Weil McClain gold if that makes a diffference.. Is it going to cause a problem to turn the zone 6 off of priority? Thanks Dave
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 7:48 AM
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    It means you will run out of DHW...

    That is THE reason you want to prioritize your DHW loads.

    Sounds like either a wiring issue, a pump issue, or (doubtful with that tank) a coil that is limed up and not transferring heat well.

    Needs further diagnosis....

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 7:54 AM
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    DHW

    Thank you Mark. I really appreciate your input. I would be surprised if it is a wiring issue as nothing has been touched, the pump on zone 6 is a little Taco and it seems to be running fine. It would seem to me there would be some kind of sensor on the tank that would tell the control that it has the water it needs, and allow the other zones to turn on..
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 7:56 AM
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    Got pictures?

    Pictures would be VERY helpful, and yes, there is usually a control device of some sort that monitors the tanks temperature.

    ME

    EDIT;


    I had to go to W/Mc's web site to refresh my memory. THere is a round knob on top of the tank that is the control for the W.H. Try turning it down a tad and see if that works.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
    This post was edited by an admin on February 8, 2012 8:01 AM.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 8:42 AM
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    Temp control

    Just took some, there is a knob on the top like you said, I turned it down a bit and I heard the relays click, threw the priority switch back to zone 6 priority and the circulators for the other zones kept running. My question now would be, what happened to cause it to not recognize the temp it was set at for all these years? Thanks again!
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 9:41 AM
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    Lots of things to go wrong...

    It is a mechanical thermostat, and over time will lose its accuracy. Could also be air accumulated in the heat exchanger area. You may have to replace the stat if it has gotten way out of sorts. Let it run with the new lower setting, and see how it works.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 9:47 AM
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    Stat

    Will do and thanks for your help! My wife will be happier with heat!
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 9:54 AM
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    Yeah....

    People in general get pretty cranky when they don't have heat or hot water....

    With all of those pumps there, they should have internal flow checks. If one of them has failed, during a call for DHW, all flow may not necessarily be going where it is supposed to go. This would be indicated by having heat where you should NOT have heat when the DHW systems is running. You can verify it by closing an isolation valve on the alleged offending circuit.

    Any time you have as many components dependent upon each other as you have, it only takes one bad component to upset the whole works.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 10:02 AM
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    Hmm

    Maybe that was why the garage was getting a bit of heat...
  • icesailor icesailor @ 12:17 PM
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    Thermostat Problems:

    Most ALL of the W-McL. indirects like that I have had, had thermostat issues. Just like you described. No hot water when set at whatever, say "medium", turn it one degree more, and it clicks on and the water is 160 degrees or higher. Turn it back ever so slightly and there is no hot water after the thermostat "clicks" off.
    You still need to address the fault codes. If the drain is restricted, you could have a high tide line inside the burner chamber and it will wreck the refractory. It will be an expensive maintenence. If it hasn't been serviced since the install, it needs to be done now.
  • Ironman Ironman @ 11:27 AM
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    Internal Flow Checks

    I noticed that some of your Taco circs do not have the "IFC" (internal flow check) sticker on them. You may want to look at the model number on each and confirm that it has "IFC" in each one. Example: 007-IFC. The data tag is on top of the motor terminal cover.
    Bob Boan



    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 12:27 PM
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    Service

    Icesailor, the unit has been serviced a few times since new, most recently probably 18 months ago or so. I intend to get it serviced, I have a message in now. It doesn't have any flow restriction at all. Thanks for the input!
  • icesailor icesailor @ 6:12 PM
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    199 Service:

    Did they take the burner cone out and clean out the coffee grounds. And clean between the coils with an old credit card? It is a boring and time consuming project to clean and properly service the boiler. Not something like some do for an oil burner. A 45 minute brush and buff.
    Did they do a combustion analysis on it when they serviced it?
    Look on the Munchkin Installation and Maintenance manual. Look in the back on what you are supposed to do for a proper servicing. If you don't have the manual, I'll send you the link.
    I'm just concerned about your fault code history. Those incidents usually mean that something needs to be seriously cleaned. I had one recently that was getting water almost up to the burner cone. Water was draining out the drain. But not fast enough to drain the water out of the burner chamber. That's all.
    And every one of those Weil-McLain indirects has had a problem with that thermostat, doing exactly what you said. No hot water, turn the knob one degree hotter and you have dangerous hot water temperature in the structure. There is a long capillary tube on the end of that thermostat. There might even be a service bulletin on it.
    This post was edited by an admin on February 8, 2012 6:22 PM.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 9:28 PM
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    Service

    Well the guy who did is was Rich Swatton who Chuck at HTP told me was one of the best around...
  • Mark Eatherton Mark Eatherton @ 9:40 PM
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    That he is...

    Rich has seen and fixed more problems than anyone I know.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:43 PM
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    Maybe so.

    Maybe so.
    F-09 and F-11 are a prelude to needing a thorough cleaning if it keeps going on safety.
    If you put the Laptop on the brain, you could find out that it has ben going off a gazilliion times but re-trying and keep running. Your shut downs could be the tip of the iceberg.
    If you say so, it's fine. If you say that it is normal for your thermostat to work so closely, it's fine.
  • David Toppin David Toppin @ 10:43 PM
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    Rich

    Not saying that, I need him to come service it, but at least it is running now. It is time for a service
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