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    taco bumblebee pump (11 Posts)

  • chuck172 chuck172 @ 9:05 AM
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    taco bumblebee pump

    Any comments on this pump?
    http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/102-435.pdf
    I can't seem to find it anywhere yet
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:52 AM
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    Bumblebee Pumps:

    They sound nice.
    I won't use them until they change the flange gaskets to a wider one like a Wilo. I switched completely from Taco pumps because of this. I got tired of replacing leaking red rubber flange gaskets that don't belong on circulators with square cut O-rings.  My supply house doesn't stock the proper O-ring gaskets and they save the ones that guys leave behind when they are using red rubber ones and give them to me.
    Go Figure,
    Its a personal thing.
    This post was edited by an admin on February 11, 2012 9:54 AM.
  • scott markle scott markle @ 10:27 AM
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    delta-p

    While it incorporates some temperature feed back controls not found on the alpha the absence of a constant head mode makes the potential applications/benefits of this pump less appealing, a 0-10v interface would also be nice.

    Constant head is in my opinion one of the best features of ECM pumps, the combination of TRV modulation and constant head is the bomb.

    I have not priced the bumble bee, but I'm guessing Grundfoss has the market sown up on the small ECM's (based on their very competitive pricing). I'v been waiting for the liang/ITT fixed speed cast iron ECM's to come out, I think they have not pushed forward because they probably feel they can't make money selling it for less than the more versatile alpha. I suspect Wilo is getting a run for the money as well.
  • Ron Jr. Ron Jr. @ 8:37 AM
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    Don't understand

    You stopped using the Taco brand because others throw out the black gaskets that come with them ? Or are you saying the black O rings leak ? I haven't had any issues with Taco's O ring gaskets . I know guys who used to double up with red gasket on top of the old cork O rings , but that was many moons ago . 
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:30 PM
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    Taco Gaskets:

    I stopped using the Taco Circulators because my Wholesaler never had the black OEM gaskets when I needed them. Only the red rubber ones that are worthless. And they only stock gaskets for 1 1/2" flanges. There is a mental block with the proper gaskets. When we had this house built in 2000, the contractor had a reputable plumber do the plumbing and heating. They did a good job and I could not have done it while working my regular work. I used a Weil-McLain WTGO-3 boiler. The tank-less comes from Everhot and comes with a red rubber gasket. The blank plate comes with the square cut o-ring. They used both.The red rubber gasket is hard and split. I have been trying for over three years (off and on) to get a new square O-ring to repair the leak. They have been unable to get me a simple gasket that is the same freaking gasket as the ones between the sections.
    The Wilo gasket is about 3/4" wide from the edge to the hole. There is no way that you can use any other gasket on it. Especially a red rubber one.
  • Plumdog Plumdog @ 7:23 AM
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    You can get the black rings

    We get the black rings in bags, but I had to pull teeth to make them do it. Sometimes they just get set in their ways or plain lazy. And I agree, the red gaskets are worthless. They depend on perfectly flush mating flange faces, and even then they will dry up and crack.
  • Chris Chris @ 4:00 PM
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    This Week

    Have the newest version sitting in my office and installing it Monday night. Can't wait to see it in action.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • scott markle scott markle @ 10:18 AM
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    set point application?

    Chris,

    if your interested in testing the set-point operating mode I have an excellent application.

    Actually I don't really understand the set-point application, but here is how I imagine it could work.

    Remember the VR-33 i did this fall? It has basic Viessman KW control that I used mainly because I didn't want to stick a honeywell aqua-stat in the low temperature return injection port. I'm only using the KW control for warm weather shutdown and DHW switching and pump relays (kind of a wast), the Tekmar handles zone sync and full reset injection mixing via a 30 gallon buffer tank P/S arrangement. The boiler pump is wired to the KW , the pump will only run if the KW sensor in the top of the boiler is above it's minimum (about 120). If the buffer is bellow this temp when a boiler demand takes place this circulator will cycle off a couple times (kw at work) to protect the boiler as the buffer absorbs output.

    My thought is this- would the Bumble Bee used in set- point mode and set to a boiler return temperature of say 118 be able to throttle down enough to avoid the protective interruptions that the KW is currently imposing?

    I'm told that the boiler pump shutting off this way is not a problem. My small buffer is not capable of delivering cool return for all that long, but it seems like it would be a lot more elegant to have a pump that could start at a very low flow and ramp up as temperatures rise. I assume that once things go above set-point the pump would be running at full speed (as desired).

    Currently to avoid these protective interruptions and ensure a optimal return temp, I'm using the DHW sensor and settings on the Tekmar to maintain a buffer minimum of 115 (sensor at the bottom of tank). All this will certainly confuse the hell out of anyone who might trouble shoot this system in the future (job security),but it also gets screwed up with the Tekmar user switch, because when the system in away mode the DHW gets turned off, so I loose my buffer min. when it's probably needed the most. I could fix this by using a separate set-point control for the buffer, which would be cool because I could also set a min on time and ensure that these buffer min calls result in a reasonably long burn and stack some btus in the buffer to spread the off times as well.

    I'd love to get some more detailed information on these pump operation modes, can you point to anything more detailed than the spec sheet linked by the OP? Or perhaps you should just cruise up to High Falls and I can run some flange gasket tests on that new pump.
  • Joe Mattiello Joe Mattiello @ 4:14 PM
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    Bumble Bee

    The HEC-2 is still in Beta testing, so they are not ready for release.  The flange gaskets are our standard 00 flange gaskets, square cross sectional O-ring, and we have no issues with those gaskets.  The red oval flange gaskets were used with the larger 100 series pumps but some technicians used them with the 00 series because dimensionally nothing changed.  Anyway, currently they are EPDM square cut O-rings.
     
    The instruction sheet attached shows the different modes of operation.  Note that the pump works with the delta T mode in line with the Taco philosophy that Delta T is more responsive than Delta P. 
    joe mattiello
  • scott markle scott markle @ 10:39 AM
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    SP operation

    Joe,

    Thanks for posting. BTW- I like the way the instructions have short a version (boxed areas), technical literature often fails to provide a fast path to the needed information.

    I was joking about the gaskets, taco seems to be stock at at at least one of my local vendors, but grundfoss are not to be found. It's kind of silly that there is not more standardization of things like this, are any of these gaskets really that much better than the others? I see a lot of union type connections on small european pumps, I wonder if these connections are standardized.

    I'm posting a few pictures from the job I was describing above along with a side by side Wilo and Taco gasket.

    I could see how a bypass loop with BB in SP would be very effective in maintaining my (118) goldilocks return temperature, it would also eliminate my buffer minimum temperature setting and allow the buffer to get down to the target supply, which is often very low (75-100) Let me know if there is interest in testing boiler set-point bypass in my specific application, as you can see I have a temp gauge already mounted on the return, I'd gladly do the pipe-work for a chance to test this pump.
  • scott markle scott markle @ 10:42 AM
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    images

    oops, here are the pictures
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