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    convert W-M SGO to gas? (55 Posts)

  • JeffM JeffM @ 12:05 PM
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    convert W-M SGO to gas?

    I've currently got a Weil-McLain Gold oil-fired boiler on my one-pipe steam system [A/B-SGO-5(W)]. It's the right size for my steam system, but I can't stomach the fuel bills for oil anymore. I've considered switching the whole boiler out for a gas model, but wondered if there's a way to just switch the burner to a gas version with far less disruption to the system (and the wallet)? I know that W-M doesn't support gas for this boiler, but can it be done anyway? Have seen a few posts on here before about conversion burners, but don't have a good understanding of them. The boiler is maybe 8 years old if that matters (chimney has recently been relined).
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 4:37 PM
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    Sure you can

    Carlin, Midco and Riello all make conversion burners that will work in your SGO, and the result will be a more-efficient setup than the typical atmospheric gas steam boiler. You need a knowledgeable pro to do this conversion properly.

    But I wonder if your high fuel bills are the result of improper maintenance or something else that causes it to use more oil than it should. For example, if the yearly "burner servicing"  takes a half-hour or so, it's not being done right. Also, if the radiators do not heat evenly, it makes the burner run longer which wastes fuel.

    Where are you located? 
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on March 9, 2012 4:43 PM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:35 PM
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    SGO Servicing:

    Following up on Steamheads comment,
    How thorough has the servicing on that boiler been? How long does it take the service person to clean the boiler and service the burner? It's more than just taking the top off, removing the draft bonnet and soot sawing the kibbles and bits into the chamber. If the door gaskets haven't been replaced, then the front has never been opened. I've seen kibbles and bits almost up to the bottom of the burner on boilers that were cleaned yearly until I got there. And you need to replace the "rug" on the floor after the first good cleaning with a more robust one. Like  Lynn "Wet Blanket" cut to fit.
    If it hasn't been serviced properly, you would be surprised how much better and cheaper they will run.
    I've spent almost 4 hours cleaning and fixing up a really bad one. Thats replacing the rug, door and bonnet gaskets and setting them up with digital combustion analysis. The next year, it's easy. A lot less time.
    This post was edited by an admin on March 10, 2012 9:38 PM.
  • JeffM JeffM @ 12:18 PM
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    Manchester, NH

    I'm in Manchester, NH. Know any good pros in this area? I don't have any vents on the mains in the basement which I know is one area that needs to be addressed before next season that would improve efficiency a bit. Otherwise the radiators in the main rooms near the thermostat work OK and the system never builds any significant pressure before turning off, and heat up times for the radiators seem reasonable.
  • Paul48 Paul48 @ 1:07 PM
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    You're

    close to the Mass. border. Look in find a contractor in Mass. (top of page), see if any are close to the NH border.
  • kcopp kcopp @ 3:34 PM
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    im in Dover

    Do you have gas in the house yet?
  • Chris Chris @ 4:19 PM
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    Food for Thought

    May want to check with your home owners insurance policy but once you stick that burner on that boiler you just voided its warranty as well as its UL rating. May void your policy. Much more to think about then just slapping a gas conversion burner on a piece of equipment the mfg (Weil) didn't test or rate for.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    This post was edited by an admin on March 10, 2012 4:20 PM.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:06 PM
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    The burners I mentioned

    are UL approved for the purpose of converting oil boilers to gas. That should satisfy Code authorities and insurance carriers, assuming the installation was done properly. 
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • Chris Chris @ 9:12 PM
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    Burner May

    But the equipment is not. Once the burner is put on a boiler that was not certified or tested for gas use by its mfg it no longer has it's UL rating.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:36 PM
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    By that reasoning

    it would have been illegal to put oil or gas burners in coal-fired boilers. We know that wasn't true since pretty much every residential heating unit that was designed for coal firing was, at some point in its life, converted to oil or gas with burners listed for that purpose. That's the precedent the naysayers ignore.

    The principle here is the same. We have a heating unit listed for use as a heating unit, very often with several different burners so those of us who are Beckett or Carlin or Riello fanboys can use our favorite burner with the unit in question. All such burners are listed for either OEM or conversion use- yes, oil burners are listed for "conversion" since they may be used to upgrade a unit with an older burner.

    Power gas burners carry the same listings for OEM or conversion use, which includes changing an oil (or coal!) fired unit to gas. I am sure the Carlin, Midco, Riello and other burner people would not market them for oil-to-gas conversions were this not the case. The best ones are flame-retention burners which can replace flame-retention oil burners in units designed for flame-retention burners.

    We've done a bunch of these conversions and they work well, better than the inefficient atmospheric gas boilers that the utilities love. There are others like Tim McElwain who have installed conversion burners for over 40 years, and I doubt this would have happened without the proper listings.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on March 10, 2012 9:36 PM.
  • JeffM JeffM @ 11:24 PM
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    already have gas

    I've got gas in the house already (gas range in kitchen), which is what led me to think in this direction. If I had to pay to get a line and meter installed I'm not sure the economics would be in my favor, but with the line already within a few feet of the boiler it makes sense. Even if I don't decide to switch the boiler this season, I'll probably disconnect the tankless coil for hot water and move to a gas DHW system so I don't burn oil in summer. 
  • Robert O'Brien Robert O'Brien @ 4:54 PM
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    40%

    Gas is 40% less than oil here on LI,so all else being equal,you will save almost 40%
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 7:21 PM
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    After installing well over 3,000

    gas conversion burners here is my take on converting boilers in particular.

    I do not by installing a Power Gas Burner in any way violate the ANSI Standard for Gas Fired Low Pressure Steam and Hot Water Boilers ANSI Z21.13

    I install in accordance with manufacturers instructions which are based on ANSI Z223.1/NFPA 54 National Fuel Gas Code along with CSA/ANSI Z21.8-1994 (R-  2000) Installation of Domestic Gas Conversion Burners a 70 page booklet which sells for $601.00 Introduction below: And also Z21.17 1998 CSA 2.7-M1998 (R-2009) which sells for $698.00
    Scope

    1.1

    Applicability

    This standard applies to the installation of a conversion burner with an input of 400,000 Btu per hour (117 228 W) or less and design certified as complying with the Standard for Domestic Gas Conversion Burners, ANSI Z21.17.

    This standard, in conjunction with local codes or, in the absence of local codes, with the National Fuel Gas Code, ANSI Z223.1, is applicable to situations where an appliance is to be converted to gas with a conversion burner, provided it can be demonstrated under Parts 2 and 3 that such a conversion can be made with safety, economy and in the best interest of the consumer.

    All references to ""psi"" throughout this standard are to be considered gage pressure, unless otherwise specified.

    Exhibit contains a list of standards specifically referenced in this standard, and sources from which these reference standards may be obtained.

    1.2

    Safe and Satisfactory Operation

    Once the decision has been made to convert an appliance from another fuel to gas, safe and satisfactory operation will be dependent on a number of factors. Among these are: (a) Proper analysis of the feasibility of conversion; (b) Proper selection of the burner to be used; (c) Proper selection of the draft hood or barometric draft regulator to be used; (d) Following the instructions contained in this standard; and (e) Following the installation instructions provided with the conversion burner.

    For further information or assistance, the appliance manufacturer should be contacted. In no case should the appliance be modified beyond the recommendation of the appliance manufacturer. If the manufacturer cannot be contacted, the local gas supplier should be consulted.

    1.3

    Installation

    The responsibility for a safe and satisfactory installation is shared by the agency determining the feasibility and selection of the burner, the installer, and the local authority having jurisdiction. In many areas a permit is required. Obtaining this permit is the responsibility of the installer. Maintenance and reporting of possible improper operation is the responsibility of the user. It is the responsibility of the installer to inform the user of the correct operation and maintenance.



     ANSI Z21.17 1998/CSA 2.7-M 1998 (R-2009) DOMESTIC GAS CONVERSION BURNERS

     
    1. Scope
    1.1.1 This standard applies to newly produced domestic gas conversion burners constructed entirely of new, unused parts and materials and having input ratings at normal inlet test pressure of not more than 400,000 Btu per hour (117 228 W): (a) For use with natural gas; (b) For use with manufactured gas; (c) For use with mixed gas; (d) For use with liquefied petroleum gases; and (e) For use with LP gas-air mixtures.
    The performance of conversion burners for use with the above-mentioned gases is covered under Part II.

    1.1.2 If a value for measurement as given in this standard is followed by an equivalent value in other units, the first stated value is to be regarded as the specification.

    1.1.3 Exhibit A contains provisions that are unique to the United States.

    1.1.4 Exhibit B contains provisions that are unique to Canada.

    1.1.5 Exhibit C contains a list of standards specifically referenced in this standard, and sources from which these reference standards may be obtained.

    1.1.6 All references to "psi" throughout this standard are to be considered gage pressures, unless otherwise specified



    This product referenced by:
    [u]NFPA (Fire) 54 / ANSI Z223.1[/u] - National Fuel Gas Code, 2009 Edition, Includes Amendment A (2009) and Amendment B (2010)
    [u]ICC IMC-2006[/u] - 2006 International Mechanical Code
    [u]ICC IFGC-2006[/u] - 2006 International Fuel Gas Code


     
    This post was edited by an admin on March 11, 2012 7:27 PM.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 7:25 PM
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    I also in order to

    eliminate any confusion as to warranty cover all warranty that may still exist on the equipment myself. The interesting thing about that is that I have never had to make good on one in all the years I have been doing this.
  • Chris Chris @ 8:14 PM
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    Just To Clarify

    Tim very nice post. My point is the consumer should be provided the information they need to make the right decsicion. While I applaud you taking over the remainder of the boiler iron warranty not all are going to do that. Just to verify I checked with some boiler mfgs that don't test or offer power gas burners and you do void their warranty once you convert. I'm not saying a power gas burner cannot be properly installed and set up but that not all out there doing it are providing consumers the right information to check and make sure once they have modified a piece of equipment they don't get burned.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 2:17 AM
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    That might depend on who you actually talk to

    sometimes I have called the same company, gotten two different people who gave two different answers to the same question. And if someone does tell you it voids the warranty, it's probably because they want to sell another boiler. But the atmospheric gas boilers they want to sell will be the first to go out of production because of higher efficiency standards, so eventually these naysayers will have to get on board or their sales will suffer.

    Tim has more experience and know-how than the rest of us combined. If he can convert boilers without issues, we can too.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on March 15, 2012 2:19 AM.
  • JeffM JeffM @ 10:14 AM
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    very interesting

    This is all very interesting. It sure makes sense to me to just switch fuel sources and burner instead of the entire boiler. I'd love to find someone in the southern NH area who does these conversions!
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 11:00 AM
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    JeffM Contact Jim Fusco

    at Granite State Trade School, 603-792-4787 located at 65 Londonderry Tpke, Hookset, NH. They would probably be able to refer you to some of their trainees who are qualified to install conversion burners. Tell them you got their info from me.
  • JeffM JeffM @ 11:19 AM
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    Thanks!

    Tim,
         Thanks for that contact. I'll drop your name there and see if they can recommend someone to convert for me.
  • Gina_D Gina_D @ 3:25 PM
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    Who would I contact in Brooklyn/NYC?

    Who would I contact in Brooklyn, NY about finding an appropriate person or company to do such a conversion?

    Many thanks! -- Gina
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 6:15 PM
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    Gina

    go to the top and click "find a contractor", click New York then Brooklyn.
  • leed leed @ 10:22 PM
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    Contractor

    Is there a recommended contractor for a gas conversion burner in he Southern New Haven and Fairfield County areas? Search doesn't show anyone.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 10:53 PM
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    Try Charlie from WMass

    not sure if he comes that far, but it can't hurt to ask, and if not maybe he knows someone. Tell him we sent you.

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/professional/221/Charles-Garrity-and-Son-Plumbing-and-Heating
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on May 6, 2012 10:55 PM.
  • Jells Jells @ 2:30 PM
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    which gas converter make to go with?

    I've just purchased a 4 unit rowhouse with a oil fired A/B-SGO-6(W) about 12 years old with a single pipe system. The seller reported spending $12k/yr on oil!  The rotting buried tank was pulled in contract and replaced with an above ground, but I want to convert to gas, there's no reason to think oil will ever again be cheaper.

    W-M told me Wayne & Carlin make replacement burners, and at the top of this thread Midco and Riello are mentioned.  Any reason to prefer one over the others, or just go with what's locally available?

    Before replacing the whole boiler I'd seriously consider ripping out the whole radiator system and installing individual hydronic boilers & baseboard for each unit.  Then I'd be off the hook for heating bills.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:10 PM
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    I'd pick the Carlin EZ-Gas or 201Gas

    since they run very well in the SGO series. Here's a link to one we installed, slightly larger than yours:

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/141630/Weil-McLain-SGO-8-with-Carlin-201Gas

    We install these burners as a matter of course, in brand-new as well as existing boilers. Also, a gas burner gets a double-swing barometric draft regulator and a blocked-flue safety switch- both required by Code.

    Also, if this is a steam system, the system itself could likely use some attention if your fuel bills are that high. Where are you located- there's probably a good steam man near you.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on August 14, 2012 9:16 PM.
  • Bob Harper Bob Harper @ 7:52 PM
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    IRC 104.11

    Alternative materials, design and methods of construction and equipment. The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any design or method of construction not specifically prescribed by the code, provided that any such alternative material has been approved. An alternative material, design or method of construction shall be approved where the building official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code. and the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the equivalent of that prescribed in this code. Compliance wit hthe specific performance-based provisions of the International Codes in lieu of specific requirements of this code shall also be permitted as an aternate.
    You must get approval from your AHJ then advise your insurance carrier. Once all this is done, there is a transfer of some liability or an assumption of risk to the installer, wholesaler and mfr. of the new component. The AHJ should ask for a letter from the boiler mfr. stating they do not foresee a problem as long as the input rating is not exceeded and the safety controls are not diminished. HTH
  • Jells Jells @ 8:24 PM
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    Huh?

    Bob, what question is this in answer to?
  • Bob Harper Bob Harper @ 11:39 PM
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    what does my post refer to?

    If you look at the 7th post in this thread, Chris raised a very valid point about being concerned about voiding a warranty and listing with a conversion burner. Timmie then provided some technical info. and I provided this from the IRC, which explains there is a way to do it legally but you must go through the process. That's all.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 7:33 PM
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    I'll say again

    if there were legal issues, the folks who currently sell power gas burners to be used for conversions would not be doing so. The fact that they sell so many of them should tell us something. 
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 8:36 PM
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    The concern for many

    is the untrained installing burners and someone getting hurt.
  • Jells Jells @ 9:45 PM
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    No DIY this time!

    I'm a pretty hands on guy, hydronics is relatively simple, but this steam stuff I'm leaving to the pros!  I've got a local heating specialist, I'm sure he's very familiar with steam, half the old places around here are steam.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 10:08 PM
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    That's another reason

    for pros to train with Tim. He's the best!
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • Jells Jells @ 10:10 PM
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    Wayne burner for $660 about right?

    I got quoted a Wayne burner for $660. Does this sound about right? 

    When I was asking my normal heat contractor about gas converters he said just replace the boiler as a 12 year old SGO was nearing the end of it's life and a new burner would be in the thousands anyway. I like these guys, they ARE heat specialists not general plumbers, but I'm thinking I need a new boiler mechanic. Nobody on the list is nearby.
  • JStar JStar @ 11:25 PM
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    $$$

    Not sure if it's against the forum rules to talk about parts prices, but that sounds right.

    Not too many people talk about Wayne burners here, but I've always used them in the past with great results. I get mid 80% efficiencies, with excess air under 30%. I personally like the fact that all of the controls are very generic and parts that I already keep in stock for all of my heating service. For me, that has a lot of unseen value. I guess it's a matter of history and comfort with the products.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 1:04 AM
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    We don't discuss pricing at all

    on this board. 
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • Jells Jells @ 11:23 AM
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    What about the life of an SGO?

    Sorry bout the price question, I was really just looking for a ballpark, when I spoke to W-M I was led to believe a burner might be half that, but in retrospect I guess that wasn't realistic given the complexity.

    Can anyone comment about the expected life of an SGO? I was startled when he said it wasn't worth a new burner on a 12 year old unit because boilers don't last decades the way they used to.
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 11:53 AM
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    I would say that

    your boiler if properly maintained these past 12 years and was serviced annually by a reputable oil service company is good for maybe 10 more years. 

    The other alternative which some do with great success is to by a good oil boiler and immediately convert it to natural gas with a conversion burner. That way you set the oil burner aside and if prices flip flop put the oil back in. This works very well with steam systems. Steamhead can recommend some good boilers that he does this with.

    I would recommend the Carlin EZ burner.
    This post was edited by an admin on August 20, 2012 11:55 AM.
  • Jells Jells @ 12:23 PM
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    No idea of maintenance

    Like I said, I just bought the building, and if the maintenance of the rest of the place is any indication of the boiler's, it hasn't been good.  So retiring this one IS a good idea?

  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:04 PM
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    You might gain a lot

    by simply having the present setup properly maintained. A boiler that is cleaned and tuned properly runs more efficiently.

    Also look at your main vents to see if they're properly sized and working. This is another big fuel saver.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on August 20, 2012 9:05 PM.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 9:27 PM
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    looks like

    they used your old 100 CRD? Any thing you put on there will be a plus. EZ gas burner candidate
  • Jells Jells @ 10:54 PM
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    Find a boiler guy?

    From what's been said upthread I need to get a price on a the Carlin installation from someone who knows what they're doing with this kind of job, and I don't get he impression from my guy, despite his 40+ years, that burner conversion is something he's done a lot of.  Nobody on the list is close, there's only 1 guy in NJ at all. How do I determine in a phone call whether someone has the training & experience to do this?

    Whether enough life remains in this SGO to bother is still a mystery. I understand why no one can just tell me "yeah, convert it" or "trash it", but I hate when the process forces me to make decisions based on so little experience or knowledge. Reminds me of recently junking a 99 Escort that sucked a valve. $3800 for a rebuilt engine in an old car, $2500 for a used engine, or bite the bullet and get a new car. Now I'm making car payments but the wife is happy.
  • JStar JStar @ 7:17 AM
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    Two cents

    If the boiler isn't leaking, and looks like it can be cleaned up nicely, the conversion is a great choice.

    I'm in central NJ. If nobody else can help you, I'd be willing to take a phone call from you. Heck...I'm not even against the idea of a little road trip.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • RobG RobG @ 12:10 PM
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    Conversion Burner

    One last thing, if you do go with the gas burner. If your old boiler dies in the near future just buy a replacement boiler without a burner and re-use your existing burner. It's less cost up front and less cost upon future replacement.
    Rob
  • Jells Jells @ 2:23 PM
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    I made a call

    So I called the one contractor in NJ within 1/2 hr drive and the girl on the phone says they don't do conversions!
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 3:31 PM
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    Did you call

    Jstar?
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • JStar JStar @ 3:35 PM
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    ...

    We're set up to look at it tomorrow.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 4:18 PM
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    Cool!

    good luck.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • JStar JStar @ 6:35 PM
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    Thanks.

    And based on your high regard for it, I'm going to be installing a few Carlin EzGas burners soon. Excited to see the difference versus Wayne.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 10:46 PM
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    I don't believe

    the Wayne P250/P265 burners are actual flame-retention units, based on the flame patterns they give. Same with the Midco E20 units. But the EZ-Gas is, which is one thing that makes it run so well in many modern boilers.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • JStar JStar @ 10:59 PM
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    Wayne

    They have a flame spreader, which I suppose is their way of trying to create a flame retention effect. 
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 12:02 AM
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    Not

    the same thing.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • Jells Jells @ 3:59 PM
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    I've just been told the efficency of converters is in the 60's!!

    My "old" heating guy just gave me prices, and firmly recommended I not do the converter as it's much less efficient than a new unit.  He said because the flame is cooler than oil, more if the heat goes up the pipe. Which made no sense to me. Do you guys sympathize yet with how tough it is to be a customer?!!

    The more interesting part of his proposal was the option to convert the units to individual forced air, and then I'm off the hook for the heating bill.  He said the efficiencies were high enough to use PVC vents, and the railroad apartments were relatively easy to run ducts.  But his price on that was 2x his price for a new boiler, and leaves me with a lot of interior work soffiting in the ducts. I wonder what the price would be if I insisted on the "disposal" of the several tons of radiators myself!  Are they worth more as scrap or going to the reuse yards?
  • Tim McElwain Tim McElwain @ 4:43 PM
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    Find a new

    contractor!
  • JStar JStar @ 7:15 PM
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    ...

    Hopefully, he has ;)

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  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 5:38 PM
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    Agreed

    and BTW, PVC is NOT approved material for venting combustion products. It's used a lot, but has never been listed for this use. So if something goes wrong.......
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