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    F&T traps on commercial buildings. (7 Posts)

  • add add @ 1:53 PM
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    F&T traps on commercial buildings.

    hi i need a refresher on how an fet trap works on a commercial building and way, especially when they are installed on piping that runs below the boiler( in crawl spaces beneath the level of the boiler).thank you for the help.
  • Rod Rod @ 2:44 PM
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    F&T Traps

    Hi- As my connection with steam is as a homeowner, your question is way above my experience level.   I'm sure one of the pros can help you with this.
     A couple of questions I have -
    If the piping is below the boiler, where does the returning condensate flow?  Location of tanks? Pump (s) ?
    Is the trap below the level of the boiler? 
    Pictures and /or a diagram are always a help!
      
    You might find some literature to help you at these websites:
    http://barnesandjones.com/resource/
    http://completewatersystems.com/brand/hoffman-specialty/products/
    - Rod
  • add add @ 3:14 PM
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    yes this is for pro

    yes Rod this is for the pro,commercial steam is quiet different from residential.
    the hartford loop trap is where it need to be just like a residential boiler.and as far the condensating line it works with a circulator and reservoir tank. i need some one like Steamhead. thanks for your help.
  • Dave in QCA Dave in QCA @ 11:21 PM
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    F&T steam traps

    An F&T trap in a commercial situation is similar in many ways to a residential application.  However, there are also differences, sometimes.
    Of course, the basic of operation are that the T or thermostatic part of the trap will remain open until it is closed by the temperature of steam being present.  This will allow air in the main to be vented out when steam is trying to travel into the main upon boiler start up.  This operation requires that there are no dips in the discharge piping and that air can freely flow.  The piping usually is connected to a condensate return pump, which has a tank that is vented to the atmosphere.  When the tank is nearly full the pump will come on and pump the water back to the boiler system, usually in commercial setups, to a boiler feed tank.  The other part of the F&T trap is the float.  When the trap is empty, the float is down and the port is closed.  When the trap begins to fill with condensate, the float raises and causes the port to be opend, thus allowing the condensate to discharge. 

    F&T traps work best when they are set up to discharge by gravity to a condensate receiver.  However, occaisionally you may find them installed such that the condensate line is above the trap.  In these cases, it will require pressure present in the steam main to push the condensate through the trap and discharge upward to the condensate line.  When traps are piped in this manner, they are usually on systems that are set up to maintain steam pressure continuously.  When the boiler is down for seasonal shutdown or service, and then is started back up, this type of set up will cause a fair amount of water hammer until the steam pressure is established and maintained, at which time the hammering will cease and operation will be normal.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • gerry gill gerry gill @ 11:33 AM
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    something doesn't sound right.

    The f&t is a steam to return line segragation device..why are you trying to put it by the hartford loop? your not trying to master trap are you? can you sketch out a drawing, as i'm not sure i'm following your desires.
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.
  • add add @ 5:17 PM
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    thank you Dave in Qca

    yes gerry gill something is not right,you got my initial question mixed up with my second post that was an answear to Rod.is a common mistake on this site when the iniatial question gets all mixed up.thank you for your help,very appreciated,thanks dave i am trying to learn us much is possible in commercial steam .
  • Dave in QCA Dave in QCA @ 5:35 PM
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    pictures

    You're welcome,
    As Gerry has said, sketches and pictures would help a lot.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
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