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Polypropylene vents becoming the way to go (15 Posts)
Polypropylene vents becoming the way to goSeveral condensing tankless water heater manufacturers are now advertising Polypropylene as the flue material of choice, one example is Rinnai. The poly is able to with stand temps up to 230 degrees. No glue required fittings snap to together.
One of the companies is Centrotherm (ECO Systems) InnoFlue being used by Aerco, A.O. Smith, Bradford White, Buderus, Camus, DeDietrich, Embassy Industries, Grand hall, GSW, HTP, IBC, John Woods, Laars, Lochinvar, Monitor products, Napoleon, Navien, Noritz, NTI, Paloma, Patterson Kelley, Peerless, Raypak, RBI, Rheem, Richmond,Ruud, Slant'Fin, State, Tagaki, Triangle Tube, Viessmann and WaiWela to name just a few. It is UL-1738 listed and is the only polymeric listed vent system in North America.
You can use it to line an existing "B" vent chase with InnoFlue Flex.
Contact www.centrotherm.us.com or call 877-434-3432.
Another product is Poly Pro Green Vent a polypropylene product from Dura Vent.it is listed to ULC-S636.it is approved for use in Massachusetts one of the most difficult states to get approval on anything. Check with the equipment manufacturer for there approval for use with their equipment. Check www.duravent.com or in New England contact Kevin Bernier Regional Sales Manager his cell is 603-533-9370 or e-mail firstname.lastname@example.org
3YearsHave been using Centrotherm InnoFlue and Flex for about 3yrs. Not much more then PVC, carries a 10 yr warranty and IT's A VENT SYSTEM!"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
cost factor"same price"? Installers are telling me the poly stuff is all 5x the cost of PVC. BS ?
pricePP is more than 636 rated PVC but a little cheaper than 636 CPVC which you are supposed to use on boiler installations (in Canada anyways) though not everyone does.
significant cost increaseI used the Cent. Innoflue on my own house when installing my Viessmann boiler. If I remember correctly a 6' 4" length was about $20 (significantly more expensive than a PVC length.) I will add that I called my supplier after installing it and joked with him saying I wish I took a more serious note when he said it was very easy to install because I probably would have piad the extra money to do the intake in PP as well. It's almost too easy to install this stuff. No riser clamps to deal with either as it's so light that a simple wall bracket does the job.
We have been using PVCfor over 30 years now. Not one failure!!!
On the other hand I see failures everyday of galvanized smoke pipe. I would say it might be a good idea to get everyone to change the galv pipe to stainless first and then we can go after the PVC.
TonyThat's confusing logic......Because there's worse, don't use better. It's great that you haven't had a failure in 30 years, but do you flatly refuse to change, being told that you might have a problem down the road?
Paul48I don't know how long you have been doing this but I piped in my first Hydropulse when I was 20. I'm 51 now and have lived through a lot of the APPROVED CRAP the industry has laid on us.
I still have the install manual from the first Weil HE boilers that instructed you to silicone the seam in the galv pipe.
I installed hundreds of feet of approved Ultravent and Plexvent and then removed it under the careful eye of manufacturers trying to dictate my hourly fee.
In that time I have installed countless warm air furnaces over 90%, cleaned and inspected them and ultimately removed them over their lifetime.
I just don't see it!
You say....being told....... by Who. The same people that approved all this other crap.
Lets get real. If they really want to make these gas systems safer they could start by outlawing the CSST tubing. That has smoked more homes and lives than PVC Venting ever did. I used it but when the facts were presented to me I changed back to steel pipe. Do you still use CSST?
Us boilerIf you remember Burnham was trying to stick to their guns stating the same thing 5 or 6 years ago but caved in. Now we are starting to see it happening. I heard a rumor of about three states considering a look at stopping PVC venting. Not sure they will or not.
I have never used innofluenever even seen it before, is that bad? lol... Im going to ask my suppliers this week, Ill try anything once, might be a good weekend project for my own home... thanks for bringing it up, who sells it, RE? FW ?
Rumors?Can you name those about 3 states?
And where it's referenced?This post was edited by an admin on May 10, 2013 9:51 PM.
NYCEffective Sept NYC won't allow PVC venting."The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
As a productCheck NYC.gov
Chris there are no documents on record of PVC for appliance venting being banned.
However, PVC products in general such as DWV, plumbing and electric conduit has been under review and certain jurisdictions and regulatory no longer allows it or perhaps won't allow it soon. This is because of the toxic fumes from burning PVC. Transit authority for instance doesn't allow it and commercial construction either.
Appliance venting with PVC I suppose will fall under this regulation, but its unfair to say that pvc for appliance venting alone is being banned. That being said, how many city buildings would have pvc vented appliances? Minimal I would say, only some newer modular boiler systems would be affected.
Like it or not....Say what you will, This is coming. The triangle tube rep explained this to me a few years back. The PVC manufacture don't want the liability. They never designed the pipe for this. Triangle Tube feels that the PVC is having a corrosive effect on the boilers. That is why they changed the internal exhaust stack and condensate collection pan from stainless to PP on the new boiler.
Don't shoot the messenger this has been brewing for a while.
Somemore InformationM&G DuraVent gets approval for venting systems
VACAVILLE, Calif. - M&G DuraVentannounced today that it has gotten more key approvals for PolyPro Venting Systems. Bradford White approved PolyPro single-wall, concentric, and flex for all Power Direct Vent tank -type water heaters that accept PVC, CPVC or ABS venting.
All Power Direct Vent models are approved to be vented with Poly Pro. Bradford White's approval includes their High Efficiency Condensing Commercial, Power Direct Vent Commercial, Residential Power Direct Vent, and Residential Power Vent models.
"Dura Vent is pleased to have a relationship with Bradford White and others - offering the market an opportunity to vent with PolyPro, an excellent venting product that is safe and easy to install and is perfectly suited for their water heaters," Brooks Sherman, president and CEO of M&G Dura Vent.