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    Help - Oil to NG Conversion (18 Posts)

  • NatickDan NatickDan @ 5:54 PM
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    Help - Oil to NG Conversion

    We are converting from an Ultimate oil boiler to natural gas and I'm getting conflicting information from professionals and I really could use some help.

    Contractor A is proposing a Burnham Aline150 because of its high efficiency, relability and the eligible $1500 rebate.

    Contractor B is proposing a Burhham ES-25 cast iron system because he states it is less expensive, more reliable, easier to repair and requires much less costly annual cleaning. His last comment was that I would be nuts to install the new Alpine system. How much weight, if any, should I give this contractor's comments?

    Both contractors are proposing a SuperStor Ultra Hot Water System.

    Any opinions or advice would be appreciated. This is going to be a an expensive conversion and I want to make certain I'm making the right choice. Thank you!
  • Chris Chris @ 6:38 PM
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    Which One

    Provided you a heat loss? Other than the boiler what else is different in the install? Maintenance is a scare tactic in my opinion. Did contractor. "B" offer the outdoor reset card for the ES2?
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • NatickDan NatickDan @ 9:21 PM
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    Which One

    Thanks for the response....Neither company provided me with a heat loss. They took the sq footage of the house (2160 sf ) and measured the baseboard radiators. Should I be asking them how they sized the system?

    Contractor B did not include a "reset card" in his quote. He did include as a $750 option for a Burnham IQ Outdoor Weather Sensing Control. With the high efficiency Alpine system I can vent outside via PVC, rather than my chimney. My existing liner has a large crack and if I vent thru it, I will have to replace the liner.
  • jonny88 jonny88 @ 7:01 PM
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    outdoor reset

    Chris makes a good point.ES2 with a outdoor reset is a very nice product but make sure you get chimney relined.I like the Alliance indirect which I think qualifies you for another rebate.you would not be nuts to go with the Alpine as long as the installation is done correctly.Just my two cents,good luck.
  • NatickDan NatickDan @ 9:30 PM
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    Outdoor Reset

    Thanks for your response. My challenge is when I factor in the $1500 rebate for the Alpine, a 7 year, zero percent loan along with the $2K I'll save from not having to install a SS liner, the Alpine seems to be the right choice. However, when I was told about how difficult and expensive they are to service, I became concerned. I guess this is what happens when you don't understand what you are buying and you get conflicting information from the contractors.
  • jonny88 jonny88 @ 10:19 PM
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    ES2 has rebates to

    I know in ny the gas company offers about $500 and an additional$450 or so in ee rebates on top of an aditional $250 for alliance.As i said before nothing wrong with the Alpine as lond as it is installed correctly and installer knows how to service it and calibrate it.by the way 2k for a chimney liner.i know there is a policy here not to discuss prices but i would ? that price.
  • Chris Chris @ 6:45 AM
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    Find Another

    Contractor because neither of these guys know anything about hydronics in my opinion. Your Alpine contractor didn't even make you aware that the Alpine carries a 5yr parts and labor warranty out of the box. Neither did a heat loss and in my world they are both out.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    This post was edited by an admin on November 16, 2012 6:46 AM.
  • jonny88 jonny88 @ 7:23 AM
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    final answer......

    chris sums it up.anyway dont get blinded by rebates you are going to have this system for the next 15yrs or how long i dont know.the rebate is a small thing to look at here.
    wise words from chris"the bitter taste........................................
  • gennady gennady @ 8:47 AM
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    warranty

    Burnham provides 5 year warranty only if boiler was installed by Burnham approved contractor. 
    Gennady Tsakh

    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.
    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 11:14 PM
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    Ultimate boilers

    were available with power gas burners instead of oil burners- not sure whose gas burners they used, but a Carlin or Riello gas burner might be the best option here.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • NatickDan NatickDan @ 4:12 PM
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    Carlin or Riello Conversion

    A HVAC friend, not a licensed plumber, also suggested just replacing the oil fired furnace with a gas fired one. I know I would lose some efficiency, but doing so would save me thousands as I could use the existing boiler and water heater. My challenge is that I can not find anyone who will install either the Carlin or Riello furnace. If you know of anyone in MA that can do this conversion, please let me know.
  • gennady gennady @ 11:10 PM
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    heatloss

    Both contractors are not good. without heat loss calculations how do they know what size boiler do you need?  But on another hand, if i would do heat loss on every quote  i would be doing just that day and night. What i do is explain to seeker of quotation, that i will price for typical size boiler for  his type and size of house. Then , if he will sign the contract i will do all necessary measurements and calculations, and will pick up proper boiler size. I promise not to change the proposal amount. If i go up or down one boiler size it is not a big of a deal, monetary it is a small change .
    Gennady Tsakh

    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.
    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • gennady gennady @ 11:15 PM
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    boiler sizing

    Also, heat losses on one family house of average size and construction are smaller than smallest high efficiency boiler ( except cadets)
     somewhere in 50-60k net, so 80k boiler will handle it with ease. and this size is smaller boiler made by all major manufacturers.
    Gennady Tsakh

    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.
    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • NatickDan NatickDan @ 4:04 PM
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    Thank You

    A sincere thanks to all of you for your comments and advice. I have a Burnam Alpine approved contractor providing me a quote this week. Given the other contractors did not include the manufacturer 5 year parts and labor warranty, my guess is they are not "approved" contractors.

    Once I make a decision, I'll provide an update.
  • Chris Chris @ 4:21 PM
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    You Don't

    Need to be anything for the warranty. All Alpines have it out of the box provided
    it is installed by a licensed contractor.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • gennady gennady @ 4:37 PM
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    burnham extended warranty

    http://www.usboiler.net/about-us/extended-warranty.php
    Gennady Tsakh

    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.
    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • gennady gennady @ 4:35 PM
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    approved contractors

    http://www.usboiler.net/find/contractor-search.php
    Gennady Tsakh

    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.
    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • Zman Zman @ 9:37 AM
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    Alpine

    Why are you only considering these models. The alpine uses a relatively high maintenance heat exchanger design. Firetube HX like Triangle tube and Lochinvar have an excellent track record.
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