The Wall
Forum / Strictly Steam / Steam Boiler Header
  • Post a Reply to this Thread

    Steam Boiler Header (11 Posts)

  • dudehorse dudehorse @ 3:13 PM
    Contact this user

    Steam Boiler Header

    Hello everyone.  I am new to this site.  It is because of this website
    that I was made aware of my steam boiler installation.  After reading
    several post here I realized my steam boiler was installed without a
    header.  I bought the book "We got steam" to make sure of what I was
    looking at.  It even states in the book that today's install guys do not
    know how to correctly set up steam boiler piping.  This is the letter I
    had to send to Peerless in hopes of proving my boiler install is
    incorrect.  Is it possible for the guys here to tell me if my piping is
    bad?  Any help is much appreciated.  Thank you. 



    LETTER SENT TO PEERLESS:



    How are you.  I need your help.  I had a boiler installed by a heating
    company a few years ago.  At the time I had no idea what the correct
    boiler piping installation should look like.  I recently became aware
    that my steam boiler was installed without a header.  My radiator steam
    vents have always spit water and I could never figure out why.  This is
    what lead me to trouble shoot my heating system.  I downloaded the
    manual for the Peerless 63-64 installation and it clearly shows how the
    riser and header should look (now that I know).  My boiler looks
    absolutely nothing like your install manual.  I went into one of the
    heating company locations and the install manager looked at the photo
    and agreed it was wrong.  A service man was sent out to look at my
    boiler and he agreed it was wrong.  An agent for the company called me
    later telling me someone would return again to correct the improper
    install.  Today 5 Dec 2012 the installation guys show up and agree it
    was done wrong.  They take measurements and promise to return with
    materials to start working.  Instead I receive a call from the owner of
    the company.  He told me that he feels that my boiler was installed
    correctly and that there would be no work done by his company.  The only
    way he would agree to do the work is if the Peerless company tells him
    that it is done wrong.  I have photos of the boiler and piping that I
    can send you to show that there is no header.  Please advise me on this
    installation.  If there is a Peerless rep that can come to my home I am
    waiting.  Thank you.  Marlon.
  • Dave in QCA Dave in QCA @ 3:37 PM
    Contact this user

    Focusing on the positives

    I looked at your pictures and tried to see if there was anything at all in the whole project that could be described as correct.  All I can come up with is the following: 1. They used black iron pipe.  2.  They used two risers that appear to be the correct diameter.    And, unfortunately, that is about it. 

    What I see that is wrong is as follows:
    1.  The risers are too short.  2.  There is no header.  3. The equalizer is piped wrong.  4.  The Hartford loop is piped backwards.  5.  Connection to the building main is wrong. 

    Really, it is baffling how anyone could have made so many errors. 
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • dudehorse dudehorse @ 6:03 PM
    Contact this user

    Steam Boiler Header

    Thank you Dave and Rod for your information.  I suspected as much.  However, I never thought I would hear that the Hartford loop was bad too!  Wow.
  • dudehorse dudehorse @ 12:45 AM
    Contact this user

    Steam Boiler Header

    Hello again.  Today I received a call from the heating company
    secretary.   She informs me that the owner has now decided to make the
    correction on the boiler?  ????  Figure that one out?   The install guys are supposed
    to return Saturday morning to re pipe the boiler.  I appreciate their turn
    around on this matter but I am concerned about the re pipe being done correctly.  Just
    because they will re pipe doesn't mean it will get re piped the proper way even this time.  I could see the header was wrong (now that I know).  But I never suspected the equalizer and Hartford loop was bad too.  If I complain about that to the install guys I know the owner is going to say screw that guy and they will leave.  I need to thread lightly on this.  I know the owner does not want to do the work.  I shouldn't have to walk on egg shells about getting this done right.  But that is how I feel.  My question if you can help is how should the equalizer and Hartford loop look on my boiler?  Thank you.  Marlon. 
  • dudehorse dudehorse @ 4:20 AM
    Contact this user

    Steam Boiler Header

    How are you.  Sorry for the delayed update.  Your information has helped
    a great deal and I appreciate it.  The install guys showed up on Saturday.   Yes, I had their most experienced steam guy.  They have 60
    installers and only 4 of them are steam/hot water guys.  He agreed that
    the piping was wrong and wanted to reinstall to my liking.  His only
    concern was removing the existing pipes that are connected directly to
    the boiler.  He was afraid that he might crack the boiler tugging on the
    piping.  He stated that he knew for certain that his boss was not going
    to replace any boiler parts.  Only piping.  So if the boiler was
    damaged it was on me.  Yes,  he had a very difficult time breaking free
    the pipes.  I
    actually helped pull on the wrenches and even went to my garage and got
    my trusted 6 ft long 2 1/2 inch cheater pipe for leverage.   The header
    was done (photos) but he didn't feel good about trying to redo the
    equalizer pipe because it was attached right into the boiler.  He did
    agree that the equalizer pipe set up should be flipped around but
    promised that the water is still sitting in the pipes the same.   I
    figured that I won enough of the battle and settled for the most
    important thing.  The header was done.  So, this is how it turned out. 
    What do you think?  Keep in mind that I did not realize how much time
    has really pasted since I purchased the boiler from the company and they
    installed it.  8 years!!!!!   It was 8
    years ago.  My goodness time flies. No wonder the owner had a fit.  But,
    it was still installed wrong.  It took this long for me realize it. 
    Thanks to the Heating forum and the books I have read.  So, hats off to
    the heating company for acknowledging the error and addressing it. 
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 6:29 AM
    Contact this user

    Better, but...

    The header is under size. The IOM says you can use 2"risers if you use 2, but the header should be 2 1/2".
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • Rod Rod @ 4:06 PM
    Contact this user

    Boiler Piping Problems

    Hi- Sorry to hear that you are having problems. Besides the header, the Hartford loop is wrong. It sort of "reversed" from what it should be. (see attached picture) There is no equalizer pipe and what might be called an equalizer pipe goes directly to the Wet Return with the "reverse" Hartford Loop connecting to the boiler. This is no where near the drawing in the installation manual. The more faults you point out the less likely any one can say that it's okay.
     Since the heating company that did the installation buys boilers regularly and you only buy one every 10 to 15 years, the manufacturer, not wanting to upset a good customer, the heating company, will do their best to stay out of any controversy so you need to expect that happening.  I'm not saying that Peerless, who are a very good company, will do this, just that you need to understand which way the wind blows so to speak.
      I would contact the owner of the company and ask that he personally come out and take a look at the installation "as obviously he isn't able to tell how bad the installation is from pictures and what other are telling him".  No business owner wants to go to court and maybe seeing the mess he will come to some sort of compromise.
    Good Luck!
    - Rod
  • Steve Steve @ 6:10 PM
    Contact this user

    Unfortunately

    It Is going to be very hard to get the Original guy back to correct everything
    I would suggest you bite the bullet, hire somebody new, just make sure it is done correct this time.
    Take your time and get all the correct info which You seem to be doing already.
  • fixitguy fixitguy @ 7:19 PM
    Contact this user

    Yikes

    This is the same boiler properly piped.
    This post was edited by an admin on December 5, 2012 7:24 PM.
  • Rod Rod @ 3:45 AM
    Contact this user

    Boiler Repipe

    Hi- Great news! I‘m glad they decided to take responsibility for it and are going to repipe it properly. There shouldn’t be any problems with this.. Just tell them you want the boiler piped/installed  per the instructions in the I& O  manual . That’s what you contracted for and  that’s what you should get! (And that includes the Hartford  Loop piped properly! ) I’ve attached a I&O Manual (Installation & Operating)  for the Peerless 63-64 below.  The installers may or may not have the I&O manual with them so I would print the manual out so it can be easily referenced by all.

    Info on boiler piping -  You might want to start by first watching this video on the importance of near boiler piping.
     http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/107/Steam-Heating/118/Steam-boiler-near-boiler-piping
    Notes on the I&O Manual
    All the piping instructions for a steam boiler are on page 14 and Page 15. Read them over. On Page 14, Figure4.4 “Dual Supply Connections” is how your boiler should be piped. Note the In this drawing note the Hartford Loop conncetion and also the written instructions. On Page 15 Table 4.1 “Steam Supply and Head Pipe Sizing shows the sizes of the boiler piping. Look at the table - Your model  is a 63-04 and your using TWO connections (Boiler Risers)  The two boiler risers are 2 inch pipe. The Header is 2 ½ inch pipe and while the table states that the Equalizer pipe should be 1 1/4 inches you are better off with 1 ½ inches per Dan’s books.

    . If they will do the Equalizer Pipe  in 1 ½ pipe fine!  If they are going to stick to the instructions at 1 1/4 that’s okay  too. (They may have strict instructions from their boss to pipe it exactly per the manual.)

    Note Instruction #3 on Page 14 about the header pipe needing to be a minimum of 24 inches above the boiler waterline.

    All the piping that carries steam has to be black iron with threaded fittings.

    Maybe one of the other Wallies has a picture of a Peerless installation they can post that will  give you a better idea of the boiler piping. I’m sure the company is going to send their more experienced guys to do the piping so you are less likely to have problems. 
    Good Luck! Everything should work out okay!
    - Rod







     
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 12:19 PM
    Contact this user

    Pictures of Peerless Near Boiler Piping

    I recently repiped my Series 61 and posted the pictures.

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/142719/Peerless-G-561-W-S-Repipe

    I'm not a pro myself, but I got a lot of help from the pros here.

    I included a "before" photo so you can see the problems I was addressing. It's interesting because, while one could claim that it had a header and swing-arms, the swing-arms were above the header, and the header was under size, so they weren't doing what they were supposed to do.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  •  
Post a Reply to this Thread