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    commercial dual fuel burners (14 Posts)

  • add add @ 7:35 PM
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    commercial dual fuel burners

    i need some help on educating my self on these type of burners (especially fire eye) thanks in advance for any type of help.
  • Dan Holohan Dan Holohan @ 11:50 AM
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    It would help

    if you ask specific questions. 
    Site Administrator
    dan@heatinghelp.com













    Hug your kids.
  • Jammer Jammer @ 3:26 PM
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    Fireeye is a safty control, not a burner

    Your best bet is to obtain an install/ops manual for the specific burner. Some common commercial burner names are Gordon Piatt, Beckett, Cleaver Brooks, Powerflame, and many others...

    Fireeye is a combustion safety control, competitor to Honeywell...

    Free (though not worthless) advice; I wouldn't micky about unless you have all the right meters and know what you're doing. Sub contract in someone who does and learn from them.

    You have to really try to blow yourself up with a 150K btuh gas boiler, wheres a 3 million btuh gone wrong can get you (and the building) impressive height & distance in no time.

    Jammer
  • EBEBRATT-Ed EBEBRATT-Ed @ 7:37 PM
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    Commercial Burners

    This is a specialized field all to it's own. Fireye has an excellent school, they are in Derry, NH I believe. There is a lot to learn here just to be semi-competent on this type of equipment. Be careful.
  • add add @ 3:48 PM
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    correct

    Fireeye is the control not the burner, thank you all  for your help.the burner is a iron something i just can remember the name.Yes i have 10 years or more of residential burners experience, that is way i need and want to learn some more on it, literature ,class or school.I definetely won't be messing with the adjustment without proper training and calibration tools.But i would like to start troubleshooting some of the electrical relays and burner motors( the best part is when i ask the professional contractors a specific question they go around it and don't answear it!!).Any  classes in the ny area ?(thank you and do not worry in my 22years in the mechanical field i have never put my hands where they do not belong).
  • EBEBRATT-Ed EBEBRATT-Ed @ 5:35 PM
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    Ok

    OK. It's probably an Iron Fireman Burner. Their out of business but I am sure there are plenty still in the field. They were owned by Space Conditioning, then Dunham Bush owned them and then sold them to Vapor Power out of Chicago. There is a company that has repair parts for these burners and is doing the same with Kewanee boilers. Can't remember the name but you can google it. You could probably get a wiring diagram from them and a burner manual that will help you troubleshoot it. Go to your local supplier who handles Fireye and get the paperwork for the control. (It may be available on line).
    With those three things that should get you started. Do you know the burner Model # I am familiar with these burners?
  • SWEI SWEI @ 7:00 PM
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    Burton Mechanical

    bought the Kewanee assets back in 2006, and Iron Fireman in 2011 http://www.burtonmech.com/
  • add add @ 6:55 PM
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    Iron Fireman mod# g120-30-3.0

    I was running on oil when one of these units when on lock out. switched to  natural gas
    and a horrible noise was coming from the Webster pump.PLaced a call to the contractor 2 days later no show.today i realized while running on nat.gas and these horrible noise that the burner is not going into high fire.at this point took it upon my self to check the burner coupling.removed the top left lid and there you go the coupling is stripped.i would like to replace the coupling but a do not know the correct sequence of steps like i do on a residential units.(units have been retrofitted with honeywell devices on all the linkages for programming).
    MY silly question is can that stripped coupling have any thing to do with the gas side of the burner not going into high fire?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed EBEBRATT-Ed @ 7:35 PM
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    Probably Not

    Weather the burner is running on oil or gas the oil tank must have oil in it, all valves on and the burner pump moving oil. If only gas is going to be burned for a period of time then the coupling can be removed to save ware and tear on the oil pump. I suspect someone shut off the oil, ran the tank dry or the oil filter plugged up and damaged the oil pump which froze up and caused the coupling to strip. 
    I can't think of any reason the stripped coupling would prevent the gas side from going to high fire.
     The coupling replacement is basically the same as any residential burner. The I/F burners I worked on had a coupling with a 1/8" set screw (1/8" allen wrench). One end went on the 7/16 oil pump shaft and the blower wheels had a 5/8" stub shaft fitted to the blower wheel with the other end attached to the oil pump coupling. On some of their burners the blower wheel cannot be pulled out with the motor. The opening in the burner is small. To disassemble you remove the oil pump, air shroud, coupling, blower wheel and blower motor in that order.
  • Jammer Jammer @ 11:25 AM
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    Here's what most likely happened

    You probably locked out because the oil tank ran low, switched to gas, and now have smoked the gears in the oil pump from no lubrication.

    The only good news is there is such a surfeit of natural gas you will probably not restart the oil side for decades... REMOVE the oil pump coupling and the noise will cease, although the pump will be trash and prevent you running oil until replaced... but it will be quiet trash.

    Please note the air settings for Gas are usually subtly different than oil for efficient combustion, and if you have a soot build up in the chimney it should be cleaned well. The moisture in Nat Gas Products of Combustion & the sulfurs in most oil soot love nothing more than breeding sulfuric acid out of their inadvertent mixing.

    Jammer
     
  • add add @ 6:56 AM
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    plenty oil

    Thank you mister Jammer for your help,you probably think that i am a home owner trying to play around. I have 10 years  as a service man in the fuel industry(10 long years night and day with combustion analyzer as my pillow),mainly on residential burners.i have been to all the seminars ,beckett,riello,Carlin and so on so forth,to Dan seminars.And i am proud to say that i do not know it all. I know an empty tank from a full on ,and a clogged filter.I am now a public employee and want to  learn about the commercial burners.Yes i did disconnect the coupling and the noise went a way,couldn't wait any longer for the contractor,today i am putting a new one in and see what happens,there is time that i have to run on oil.
    I also want to thank mister Ebebratt-ed for your great help,and Dan for this great web site.Happy Holydays to all of you.
  • Jammer Jammer @ 9:29 AM
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    NP atall

    No, I don't think less of you because you asked first! The opposite in fact,
    I'm in this industry 42 years and things I don't know surprise me every day...

    imho this wall exists because everyone here knows a lot, no one here knows it all,
    So Dan's wall is the closest thing to a "Hive Brain" we have...

    :)  
  • tim smith tim smith @ 10:45 PM
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    Re: dual fuel burner training.

    I think from what i have heard that powerflame burner classes are top notch. They cover not only combustion but controls, flame programmers, everything re combustion. We work on quite a few dual fuels, gas only power burners. They are tricky at times but if you know the rules, follow procedures and understand electrical and combustion you will catch on quickly. A very interesting field.  Changed out 3 programmers this month and converted them to R7800 series Honeywell flame monitors. 2 of 3 on dual fuels.  On the conversions you have to understand what the components do and verify 3 times that you have wired correctly.  This you will get from a good school on burners and flame monitors. Good luck
  • add add @ 6:28 AM
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    Thank you

    so much for the information.
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