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    broken bleed valve on burner (26 Posts)

  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 9:54 AM
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    broken bleed valve on burner

    Good morning all.

    My apartment ran out of oil last month, and once we had our delivery I had to bleed the air to get the boiler/furnace to fire back up. As I was tightening the bleed valve (nipple, spigot, not sure what the technical term is) it sheered off. It's in the closed position thankfully, but I don't know what to do from here. Is this something that is easily replaceable? Or did I just buy a new boiler/furnace? Best I can tell it's a Weil-Mclain Model 45-22 (which despite my best efforts, I can find no information on).
    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!
  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 10:03 AM
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    update

    It's Model 45-62 upon further inspection
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 10:05 AM
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    Dont run out of oil...

    What burner is on it, or which pump?
    you wont need a boiler and worst case would be a new pump..

    I have seen this before, and I have fixed it multiple ways, you can cut a slot in the valve and use a screw driver to remove, it drill it with a reverse drill bit nice and slow works some times, drill it out and carefully remove the threads, ect.. I have a small ez out and drill bit set that works very well, I use it with car brake bleeder too..

    Then just screw in a new bleeder...{they are only a few bucks at any heating supply shop}

    then worst case you destroy the threads and cant tap it back to life, just replace the pump normally under 100$...

    good luck, I would make sure you keep oil in it, although you can bleed it with out the bleeder, but it is tough to do and makes a mess... then there is always a tiger loop or adding the bypass and running a return line.. but at that point just buy a pump...
  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 10:26 AM
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    Model picture

    This is what I'm seeing for a model, is this correct?
  • earl burnermann earl burnermann @ 5:12 AM
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    1725 A Pump?

    Wish you took a picture of the pump. But guessing from the view of the beckett style nozzle line in this picture, I'd guess that it was a 1725 a pump.
    If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!
  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 10:30 AM
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    pump

    Pump number i think
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 11:20 AM
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    bleeder

    They don't need to be that tight to start with, and although I have never asked for one at a supply house, I don't think they are sold separately. I would say that there is probably a "J" pump on there. You should hire a pro to replace it for many reason. Rotation, current PSI, etc. The pump is to the left. You provided no pic of it to determine what pump is on it. I would also try not to run out of fuel. It is not good all around the board.
  • pipeking pipeking @ 1:36 PM
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    show a pic

    of the broken bleeder. do u think u can loosen it again?
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 5:38 PM
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    That's a pic of the motor

    I seen bleeders separate. But I have so many I would never buy one...
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 10:27 PM
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    What boiler model do you have?

    that looks like one of the old ABC burners W-M used to use. They weren't great, to put it mildly. A newer burner such as a Beckett AF, properly installed, would easily save 10% on your oil at minimum. We always see at least that much savings when we do this kind of upgrade.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 9:03 AM
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    definitely an ABC Frank

    looking thru that air band, there is either a lint issue, or it is a J pump.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 10:56 AM
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    Bleeding Rant:

    What gets me here and makes me grumpy is that I worked on those POS burners way back before the 1980's. They were junk then, and are still junk. Anyone running a 1725 RPM burner is just throwing dollar bills up the chimney. Yet, is any tech had the audacity to suggest an upgrade, they might post on some forum on how the tech was trying to rip them off. I knew a gut (long deceased) who made money replacing old equipment with "reconditioned" equipment. Including condemned boilers that he cleaned and painted the jackets.
    I'll bet that that burner and boiler have never seen an analyzer probe, ever.
    How many people that have any interest in the building are driving cars that were built 40 years ago?
    The cost of tracking down a reconditioned or used fuel pump in labor and the cost o=and installation would go a long way to the replacement of the burner.
    I've never broken a bleed screw in my life. Someone must have really cranked on a socket or box end wrench with a lot of force THE WRONG WAY!!.
    The name of the game is "Deferred Maintenance". How long do you defer maintain something. Until it is dead and you replace it?
    Do we go to the doctors for maintenance check ups?
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 1:43 PM
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    Ice

    you are preaching to the choir, but he is a tenant, and probably has a slumlord that he is feeding fuel to this thing with the drafty windows, no insulation, and so on. I'm sure the tenant would love new efficient heating equipment also, but he is not the owner. I see this all the time. Unfortunately the tenant will pay for the pump replacement. If he could afford a new boiler, he would be living and installing one in his own house, and not keeping a landlords house from freezing during the winter months
  • icesailor icesailor @ 3:26 PM
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    Owner/Operators:

    If the respondent is the tennant, why was he bleeding the fuel after the run-out?
    Have you EVER broken off a bleed screw? I haven't.
    Some of you here HATE  "the government" and consider it the source of all evil. I happen to feel that a function of Government is to protect people like the respondent from the idiots out there that ask their tennants to solve their equipment problems.
    Steamhead said 10% savings. I agree.
    Another cheapskate, stepping over a $100.00 bill to get to the dime.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 3:39 PM
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    never broken one off either

    but changed a few because some gorilla kept over tightening and ruined the seat. 99% of the time, the tenant is responsible for the fuel. The landlord will not pay for a start due to a run out. Maybe it broke off trying to loosen it, and not when it was tightened after bleeding? The later J and H pumps had white metal bleeder, and not steel, and were not "beefy". Possibly one of those?  Either way, 10% is probably a low #. I would line that chamber, the brick is probably crumbling, install a Beckett AFG, and do some baffling. Maybe the run outs would not be as frequent. Anyone know if there is a gauge on the tank, where it is located?
  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 10:27 PM
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    up

    Evening, all! Thanks for all the responses! I'm headed to bed, but I'll post more pictures in the morning of the monstrosity in the basement and fill everyone in on my slumlords.

    Best,

    X
  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 10:39 AM
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    More pictures

    Good morning all. Again, I greatly appreciate all the responses.
    As pointed out earlier, I am renting. I'm here because it was my only immediate option back in October when my previous building was, for all intensive purposes, condemned and all three floors got the boot. Billtwocase called it right - slumlords. While they did complete major renovations before we had moved in, they did it themselves and neither of them know what they are doing. So the windows and the frames are drafty and the door frames are the same. I had to ask multiple times for smoke detectors. the original gauge on the fuel tank was broken but they didn't tell us until we ran out, but still blamed running out on us (thankfully at that point it was replaced). The building is old and as such, the waste water piping to the city lines is old and defunct too. There's a hole in the basement floor for "drainage" that is connected directly to sewer line - which has a tendency to back up and gurgle used TP and other such nastyness into the basement. Slumlord man won't do anything about it because the city of Portland says it's ok because of how old the house and pipes are (we called code enforcement, that's the official word).
    Don't worry, I'm working on getting out of here ASAP.

    That's enough griping. Thanks for listening.
    As promised, here's more pictures of the boiler/furnace/pump. Any more advice on this system is greatly appreciated!
  • icesailor icesailor @ 12:33 PM
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    Boiler:

    That looks like a Weil-McLain "62" series boiler. They came with those POS burners on them. They're actually a good boiler. With a modern high speed flame retention burner, and some serious TLC, that boiler could be a money saver.
    At least at one time, someone put a combustion analyzer to it. But notice the black soot in the hole. That's what you normally see with the 1725 burners in them that run like dog poo.
    Because it is a Steamer and probably 40 years old, it is probably either without teeth or very, very long in the tooth.
    Are you talking "Portland", Maine? I understood that Maine enforcement officers were almost as nasty as those Game Wardens they have on that TV show "North Woods Law".
    Must be an illusion.
    This post was edited by an admin on February 18, 2013 12:37 PM.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 11:23 PM
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    62 it is

    and it will run very well with a basic Beckett AF burner, properly installed and tuned. We have a few out there running with no problems at all.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 8:54 PM
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    1970's "62"

    I ran my "62" with a Carlin 100 CRD. That has been my favorite Carlin burner of all time. The red plastic Carlin head adjusting tool made them idiot proof. If you had the gauge.
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 9:36 PM
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    Is the 100CRD

    still available? It's not in the R.E. Michel catalog......
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • PortlandCallReciever PortlandCallReciever @ 1:04 PM
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    Ice

    Ice, you are correct, Portland, ME.
    The code enforcement officer who came over looked like no one I would want to cross and seemed like he could get mean real fast. But after a certified plumber looked at it and he cross referenced with city records for the piping in the area, he said it's technically "up to code," however gross it it.

    And back on topic, it seems the over all consensus is that I should be able to put a new bleeder valve in? Or am I better off owning up with our slumlord and getting it replaced professionally?
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:27 PM
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    Fuel:

    Who pays for the fuel? You or the owner?
    If you pay for it, the owner has an obligation to make it cost efficient for you. If he pays for it, point out to him that he should just stand in front of the property on a windy day with a bundle of dollar bills and peel them off to the wind.
    Reading between the lines, I suspect that the new owners that made improvements are legal aliens or naturalized American citizens from from the East'ard, wanting to get their piece of the USA to send back home to their families. Well, if they are paying for the fuel, they would have more to send back if they fixed that boiler properly.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 6:17 PM
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    needs cleaning to start with

    That needs some servicing. Have you landlord get that done. The "soot" that is in that boiler is costing you more to heat. It is a great form of insulation. You can still bleed this pump with a 7/16 box wrench. That is a "J" pump as I thought. The early pumps only had 1/8" plugs there, some you needed an allen wrench. If you are neat about it, you can loosen that plug with a pan under the pump, and bleed. Problem it that it will spray, so you also need a can or cup to try and catch it as well. A new burner would be a major plus here, along with a good cleaning.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 6:20 PM
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    also

    someone may not know how to set that burner up right, but it is a flame retention burner. They have come a long way since it, but it can burn much better than what I am seeing. Also looks like the smoke pipe comes out of the chimney. That needs to be secured to stop that from happening
  • JOE JOE @ 6:36 PM
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    fuel pump

    sid harvey on st john st portland  You should be able to purchase a bleeder for the j pumpthere.fix it move on the place sound like it the next place to be condemn
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