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    Off-topic: wall-hung toilets (20 Posts)

  • Gordan Gordan @ 2:21 PM
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    Off-topic: wall-hung toilets

    Anyone have experience plumbing them? What I'm looking for is to gain an understanding of how they're different (if at all) from the standard floor-standing, bottom discharge ones. Specifically, how much vertical drop, if any, is required before turning horizontal? Before venting? I'm about to install one in a small bathroom to recapture some floor space and I want to make sure that it flushes properly. Manufacturers' tech support is none too helpful, and as far as certain well-known plumbers' forums, well, let's just say that they're no HeatingHelp when it comes to knowledge sharing.
  • RobG RobG @ 2:56 PM
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    Wall hung toilet

    The first thing you have to do is pick the fixture. Then contact the manufacturers rep for the carrier. They will then be able to get you the correct mount through a wholesaler. The support is critical in a wall hung toilet, don't skimp.
    Manufactures: JR Smith, Zurn, Wade, etc.
    Hope this helps,
    Rob
  • icesailor icesailor @ 4:17 PM
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    Wall Hungs:

    If floor space is what you are trying to gain, you may not gain any and gain the biggest PITA you have ever seen.
    If it is a Re-Hab, they usually don't work unless designed for them. You will need a minimum of a 2"X 6" wall behind it and 2"X8" is better. The studs must go from floor to ceiling. You need some BEEF to hold the carrier to the wall. They don't really make a residential chair carrier. You can get carriers that flush to the left, right or down. You can get them that are continuous through, drain and vent up continuously. If you are going on an outside wall, it will be a real problem. They will, when installed, stick out as far as a regular toilet. And I don't know if they still make a tank type toilet that is wall hung. Kohler did, I put some in years ago and I have an account where they broke a tank. I had to trade a customer a new toilet for an old tank that fit on the old wall hung.
    A standard flush out the back that sits on the floor would be my choice before a Wall Hung. If it is a joist under the floor issue, Toto makes what you might need. It has an adjustable floor flange.
    Hope that helps.
  • Mad Dog Mad Dog @ 7:00 PM
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    As the boys have said...................................

    You could go with a carrier-type, but that is overkill for residential...the only room u will save with a wall mounted on a carrier is the footprint, but what are you gonna do with that space? Most bowl manufacturers make back outlet bowls that mount on the floor and discharge thru the back...just make sure you use a felt or rubber gasket, wax alone will not always work. Mad Dog
  • Jim Godbout Jim Godbout @ 7:25 PM
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    Wall hung

    Look at Geberit residential wall hung system, we use them often for wall hung applications with Toto toilets
    They are very versatile in piping approaches
    Jim Godbout
  • Gordan Gordan @ 7:43 PM
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    My bad, should've been more specific...

    This is a Toto Aquia wall mount, with a Grohe Rapid SL carrier. The carrier is pretty much the same deal as the Geberit Duofix. It's going up against a wall that's already got to bump out some because it will have venting and a cleanout in it, and I'm mounting it up against a masonry wall with the kit that they have for that purpose. There will be framing, but it won't carry any of the load (well, the joists will.)

    The thing I'm trying to figure out is how to pack a cleanout, the drain and the vent for the toilet in a fairly tight space. The wall that the toilet backs up to is perpendicular to the joists and the drain continues through a joist bay. I've seen pictures where they set the outlet elbow at a 45 angle and have it turn horizontal at the finished floor level, and even do this with ganged toilets where every one is discharging into a wye from above and the wyes run horizontal (at a minimal slope) at floor level. I think that latter arrangement would only fly if the upstream run of the wye is wet, rather than a cleanout, as you might expect things to accumulate where it hits the run from above. And when you're trying to lay things out optimally in a tight space, it helps to know how things really work, as anyone who's done a boiler install in a closet knows well. :-)
  • SWEI SWEI @ 7:58 PM
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    cleanouts in tight spaces

    Row of horizontal (feed-thru) carriers in a tight commercial retrofit.  A 3" PVC street ell into a 4x3 bushing, Hercules clamped to the last one made it -- with about 3/8" to spare.  Had to trim the cover plate, but it passed.
  • Gordan Gordan @ 9:10 PM
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    Those were pressure-assisted flush, right?

    Got pics? :-) Not sure that it'll be apples-to-apples with regard to a gravity flush, but can't hurt.
  • SWEI SWEI @ 10:04 AM
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    flush valves

    Commercial job, public restroom.  14" wall on top of existing 75 year old slab, WCs on both sides.  One RR over grade, other RR over basement, one end of row for both over grade required excavating, plus a structural column in middle of the lineup.  Several multi-angle combos of 22s and 45s, some street, required to get things draining and venting properly.  Don't think I took pics during construction, but now I'm wishing I had.

    There's a tank-type wall hung in the building behind it.  Not sure what brand but I remember the guys installing it.
  • TonyS TonyS @ 9:14 PM
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    Never use floor mount carriers on

    wooden floor. Years ago did a  elementary school rebuild. The engineer speced floor set carriers on wooden floors for the wall hung toilets. Every toilet pulled away from the wall when sat on.
    He should have speced stud mount carriers and he wouldnt have had this problem or better yet, though not as sanitary,floor set back outlet. Always use fiber reenforced wax seals or they will droop.
  • Gordan Gordan @ 7:33 AM
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    Thanks, Tony

    It seems that the most common new residential carriers these days are the Geberit style ones, you bolt the feet to the floor and either the sides to studs, or the tops get lagbolted or anchored to the wall behind the carrier with long threaded bolts that allow you to plumb (carpenter meaning of the word) the carrier. They have gasketed fixture connections for both the tank discharge and the bowl outlet, so no wax seal. The way I'll be mounting it, the load will be borne by the carrier and the studs will just carry the backerboard with tile, though I'll also bolt the thing to the studs. I figure, I don't want the thing to be able to move independently of the wall that it's built into.

    These seem like well-engineered units, but I do wish that I knew more about the principle on which they operate. If the discharge elbow works as an integral part of the siphon, seems like installation detail would be super-critical.
  • TonyS TonyS @ 8:51 AM
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    We use to use HB Smith or Wade

    Those companies would send cut sheets with product rough in books. We are going back 25 years ago so things may have changed, but at that time they would come with a plastic 4 inch nipple, straight cut threads and a tube of permatex so you could adjust for the final wall height. They did come with the neoprene gasket but we used fiber reenforced wax instead, had less problems. Most of the buildings we did at that time were concrete with metal stud, those carriers lagged directly to the floor and were either side outlet for loop or circuit vent installs or vertical, more for single sets not battery.
    The engineers definitely had a harder time with retrofits to existing old buildings with wooden floors and walls. If you can, find a good Wade or HB Smith book, lots of good info there.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 6:03 PM
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    H.B Smith

    I don't think it is H.B. Smith. They make boilers
    I think it is J.R. Smith. They make drainage products like clean-outs, grease interceptors and such.
  • TonyS TonyS @ 6:55 PM
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    Your right Ice

    but after 25 years I still got the Smith part right. Those were the days, at 3 the day was over and I picked up my paycheck on Friday.
  • Jim Walls Jim Walls @ 10:09 AM
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    Zurn residential closet carrier

    Zurn has 4 models of residential closet carriers that all fit within a 2" x 6" wood stud wall. The Z-1280 / Z-1282 / Z-1283 & Z-1285.
    I have actually installed these on commercial retrofit projects that had limited options for wall space with good success. 
  • Wall-mounted Toilets

    I like the wall-mounted toilets a lot.  The Grohe carriers and Toto toilets work well, save a lot of space and have a very sleek design.

    This photo shows one of five we installed in a Berkeley house in 2002.  It's a Geberit carrier and from what I remember, a Duravit toilet.  Over the years, I've only had to replace one part in the flush mechanism.  Very reliable.

    As far as installing the carrier, there's a bit of a learning curve as with anything new.  Just make sure your 2 x 6 wall is stout.
    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • Photos

    of carrier.
    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • ingedata ingedata @ 6:57 AM
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    wall-hung toilets

    Hi! I would like
    to share this great online resource for anyone seeking awall-hung-toilet]: http://www.archiexpo.com/architecture-design-manufacturer/wall-hung-toilet-691.html
  • jonny88 jonny88 @ 8:12 AM
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    Alan Forbes pic

    That is how you mount it correctly.Look very carefull and study that pic.We had a contractor who would not frame a 2x6 stud wall and used metal studs (unre-inforced).We made him sign a letter saying he was responsible and was advised differently but he is a GC and has letters after his name so why would he take advice from a lowly plumber.Bottom line after install the whole wall was moving due to customer sitting on toilet.GC had to re-demo bathroom and frame with 2x6 studs as Alan has shown.Geberit is a fine productin my opinion although it has been a while since I put one in.Best of luck
  • icesailor icesailor @ 10:05 AM
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    See-Saws:

    You should see what happens when they mount wall hung toilets back to back on metal studs in commercial/institutional applications. Brings yo back to childhood on the play ground on the See Saw. Sit right down for a private moment and have a 300#er sit right down on the can on the other side of the wall.
    Physics is alive and well. It is said that with a big enough Lever, you can move the world. And surely, the lighter person on the opposite toilet.
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