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    How to tell if you have wet steam? (52 Posts)

  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 4:55 PM
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    How to tell if you have wet steam?

    Are there any common signs when your system is producing wet steam?  Does the water level drop a lot while steaming, or can it stay fairly stable?  The only thing I noticed recently was when I intentionally added four steamaster tablets to a boiler it quickly lost a lot of water and triggered the LWCO.  I'm assuming with wet steam, the same thing happens just in varying amounts.

    Its a shame we can't all have a pyrex header eh?  On another thought, if it possible to use a probe type LWCO to detect wet steam?
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Steve Nichols Steve Nichols @ 4:59 PM
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    actually

    I'm very interested in this topic as well.  If anyone has any "telltale" signs, I'd love to learn.  I think I have wet steam as well as some of my convector vents "burble" as the steam enters them.  I also see a bit of condensation at the top of my sight glass. 
    I'll be repiping this summer, but any info would be great!
    striving for peaceful coexistence with an oversized boiler....

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/164/Steam-Piping/2730/Drop-Header-by-Steve-Nichols
  • NY_Hammer NY_Hammer @ 5:13 PM
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    Where from you getting

    Steamaster tablets?

    I know they were available on amazon but now it's not in stock.


    Thanks
  • JStar JStar @ 7:06 PM
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    Tablets

    Sid Harvey's has them in stock in most of our NJ local branches.

    As far as testing for wet steam, I would imagine that you can reference the saturated steam temperature at its operating pressure. The higher the temperature (superheated), the drier the steam. I would only predict this to work with a very sensitive thermometer, though.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 5:36 PM
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    steamaster tablets

    Gerry Gill mentioned edelmans plumbing supply in bedford hts ohio having them. Might be a good idea to give them a call and ask.

    I still have plenty so really have not gone out of my way to find them. I've also considering trying Rhomar's Boiler Pro 903 in the future.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • STEAM DOCTOR STEAM DOCTOR @ 5:44 PM
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    wet steam testing

    Got this idea from Lost Art. Close bottom glass gauge valve. Remove that little plug. Install a 1/4" brass nipple, a closed 1/4" ball valve and another 1/4" nipple. Let the boiler run for a while. Open the ball valve and see what comes out. If steam comes out then you know that there is steam in the top part of your boiler. If water comes out then you know that you have water in top part of boiler and hence wet steam.
    This post was edited by an admin on February 26, 2013 5:44 PM.
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 5:51 PM
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    Gauge glass

    I actually did this recently, though I did it to clean the glass. All I got out was steam.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • jumper jumper @ 7:22 PM
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    no no no

    wet steam & dry steam both are saturated. They have the same pressure temperature relationship in a steam table. You need a bomb calorimeter to measure the quality of steam. I don't remember what a bomb calorimeter is or how to use one. But I do remember that that is what to use to measure the quality of steam. Quality has to do with how much liquid is in your steam. I don't know what acceptable quality is for an old heating system. Holohan says drier is better. On the other hand, I suspect that it's the liquid in steam which actually pushes air. I can't see how absolutely dry steam could move air.
  • JStar JStar @ 7:24 PM
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    Steam

    Pressure difference moves steam/air. The pipes could be full of beans, with a difference in pressure, they'll move.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
    This post was edited by an admin on February 26, 2013 7:25 PM.
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 7:29 PM
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    I'm not trying that!

    But you're right. Probably about the most colorful way of putting it I've ever heard.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 8:40 PM
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    A bomb calorimeter?

    I think somebody was pulling your leg. A bomb calorimeter is used to measure the heat of combustion of a small sample. I can tell you how it works if you're interested, but it has nothing to do with measuring wet steam.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 7:26 PM
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    How do you know it isn't foaming?

    Foaming is the reason a lot of guys are reluctant to add anything to the boiler water. I know Gerry has had really good luck with these, but you guys are on different water systems, or you might have added too much or something.

    Can you take about a quart out of the drain valve and put it in a pot on your stove and bring it to a boil and see if you get any foaming?
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:28 PM
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    Foaming?

    Hap,

    I don't know that I have any issues, I just asked a general question. :)
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 7:32 PM
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    I thought you lost your water level.

    Didn't you say your LWCO came on after you added the tablets?
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:33 PM
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    Yes and no.

    It wasn't my water it was a friends and that was after intentionally overdosing on the pills. A high level is suppose to help clean out the boiler, but it does cause issues as Gerry pointed out.

    4 tablets in a small boiler like my friends IN5 is about 2 or 4 times the dosage you want to use for normal corrosion protection.

    As I said earlier, I can close the bottom gauge cock, leave the top open and drain the glass and all I get out is steam.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
    This post was edited by an admin on February 26, 2013 7:35 PM.
  • JStar JStar @ 7:40 PM
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    Tablets

    We've used the tablets on the last handful of jobs. We add about one per section. Boil and drain. Then only add another if the water has completely lost its violet color. We've found it to be very effective at picking up the dirt and oil in the water, but it can cause the same problems as dirty water if left in high concentration. I'd be more likely to use it as a one time kind if thing. Nothing can prevent us from going back to a job for proper skimming.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac


    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.

    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    (Formerly "ecuacool")
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:45 PM
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    tablets

    I like it because it keeps my water far cleaner than before. After about 2 months I had a slight film of rust on the lower half of the gauge glass. Water was still mostly clean even during steaming.

    Of course, there will be some rust from the rest of the system but the amount in the boiler was greatly reduced. I don't think I'll ever run my boiler without them or some sort of low level water treatment again. I think the most important part there is "low level". Just enough to reduce rusting and corrosion of the block, but not enough to interfere with steaming.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Bio Bio @ 8:03 PM
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    Gauge glass

    I had my boiler running with the tablets for a several weeks also and I notice the water level was low but not enough to trip LWCO and system was running between 0.2oz and 0.5oz and was happy with it, last week I decided to flush it all out and just have plain water and I saw the water level to be very steady and never went below 1" of NWL when steaming and gauge would stay between 0 and 1oz, to me it looks like having some extra Ph could affect somewhat, but for me the difference is 4oz higher in pressure which I think it cant be to bad
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 8:21 PM
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    How many

    tablets did you add bio?

    You need to make sure you're PH doesn't go too high. One tablet may be more than enough.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Bio Bio @ 8:56 PM
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    One

    When I used it to clean my tenants boiler I used more and water disappear and came back like Hot chocolate but yes now I use only 1 on both
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 9:01 PM
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    Oil

    Make sure your boiler has NO oil in it.
    Steamaster + oil = BAD just like most other treatments I think.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 7:44 PM
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    I'd still say it's foaming.

    How else would adding something to the water cause wet steam? Either you decrease the surface tension, by adding a surfactant or raising the pH, making it foam, or you add a slick of oil to the surface preventing the separation of steam from the surface of the water. They'll both drive water up the pipes. In the case of the oil slick, though, you won't get rid of it by draining the boiler and adding more water.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:47 PM
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    foaming

    Hap,

    Yes, four pills cause foaming due to very high PH.

    That wasn't my question. My question was how can you tell if you have wet steam. My friends system was an observation, not intended to be part of the main question. I know the system with that much treatment had problems, thats why you don't run it that way.

    The question was does a system producing wet steam typically result in the water level dropping substantially in the gauge glass. Or, can you have a pretty stable water line and yet still be producing wet steam?
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 8:35 PM
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    Now that I understand the question...

    You need to measure the condensate return relative to the load. You should get, what, about 4 oz. per hour per ft² EDR? I think that's the formula. If you get more, you're getting more than just condensate. That's wet steam.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 8:38 PM
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    Measuring condensate

    Does this include return from the equalizer?

    Do they make a water meter that is sensitive enough for this?
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 8:44 PM
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    Not the equalizer--just the load

    Since the header-equalizer is where steam and water get separated, it wouldn't be fair to count what you're removing from the steam. Besides, you're just using the EDR of the radiant load to calculate the return.

    They do make meters sensitive enough. One is called a measuring cup.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
    This post was edited by an admin on February 26, 2013 8:47 PM.
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 8:48 PM
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    Problems

    I come up with something like 12.25 gallons per hour for my 392sqft of radiation.
    Did I do the math right?

    And even so, this would only work if you start measuring after all of the piping is up to temperature. Otherwise, your piping is also consuming some steam.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 9:10 PM
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    Your math is correct.

    12.25 gal. * 128 oz./gal = 1568 oz.
    1568 oz. / 392 ft² EDR = 4 oz. / ft² EDR

    Yes, you'd need to include radiant losses from piping in the radiant load unless you can somehow separate the condensate. For example, if you could collect the condensate directly from each radiator, you wouldn't need to worry about piping.

    I'm not sure how they do it in practice, but I bet some of the pros know--not that it's the kind of thing you get called on to do every other week. To them the causes and effects of wet steam are readily apparent as soon as they take a look at the near boiler piping, the spitting vents and the banging pipes.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • Jamie Hall Jamie Hall @ 9:15 PM
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    It's not easy

    In the heating business, we always deal in saturated steam.  That is, the temperature of the vapour -- the steam -- is exactly at the boiling point for the pressure.  If the temperature of the steam is raised further, you get superheated steam, but we don't do that.

    Wet steam is a mixed phase; there is vapour phase water (steam) in equilibrium for the temperature and pressure with liquid phase water -- which may be in big drops, but may be in small drops as a sort of mist.

    Our saturated steam is constantly condensing along the walls of the pipes, but particularly in the radiators.  The real problem with wet steam is that extra water, which tends to come out anywhere there is a change in direction (water droplets don't corner as well as vapour!) and, if you have enough water, you get water hammer...

    Then of course there are the weird things which happen to saturated steam when you change the pressure without adding or subtracting heat.  But we won't worry about that... (but it is why reduced port valves are a no-no on steam mains).
    Jamie

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-McClain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:10 AM
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    Condensate TDS?

    I just tried slowly adding a steamaster tablet to a pot of boiling water by first dissolving it in a bowl and slowly adding it.

    I expected it to cause foaming at one point but am not sure of what I am seeing at this point.  I have practically the whole tablet in a tiny pot of water and am not seeing what I would call foaming.

    I decided to do more reading and found something I am going to try.  It said return water should be pretty much distilled water.  If the TDS of the returning condensate is high, it indicates something more than just distilled water.  I'm going to take some return water as a sample near the end of a heat cycle and measure the TDS and PH of it.  Afterwards I'm going to add a second tablet to the system and wait a while, then take another measurment.
    I expect to see a noticable increase in TDS in the return water as well as increased PH which should indicate wet, or at least wetter steam.

    I just took a sample of my return water from the wet return and measured a TDS of 2ppm so right now I'm thinking my steam is pretty good.  Being the system isn't running I wasn't sure if some boiler water could've blended but I guess not.  For comparison my tap water showed 250ppm

    Probably my biggest concern at this point is how accurate is my TDS meter.

    Any opinions?
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
    This post was edited by an admin on March 2, 2013 7:34 AM.
  • nicholas bonham-carter nicholas bonham-carter @ 8:50 AM
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    Auto skimmer

    This thread makes me determined to devise an "auto skimmer" piping arrangement for boilers wherein the oils could splash up into the skimming port, and be trapped in a sort of equalizer pipe connected to the return. Once a day for the first month a drain valve at waterline height could be opened to release the trapped oil into a bucket. After the first month, the oil could be drained weekly, and later once a year.
    Alternatively,the oil catching piping could be combined with the LWCO, so that draining that would also release the trapped oil.--NBC
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 9:05 AM
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    auto wet steam detector thingy

    How about a permanent conductivity meter that measures the TDS of return water and warns the user of wet steam when a certain reading is exceeded?
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Mark N Mark N @ 10:20 AM
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    Wet Steam

    Chris, wet steam can have different causes. It can be caused by poor near boiler piping or poor water quality. One would think if it was being caused by poor piping, the water level would drop causing the LWCO to trip. There would be poor steam distribution, high fuel bills, panting vents and water hammer. If being caused by poor water quality, I think you would see water or condensation in the upper part of the gauge glass maybe even water surging over the top of the gauge glass. Then most likely you would also have poor steam distribution, high fuel bills, tripping off on low water, water hammer and panting vents. If your piping is right and the water quality good I wouldn't even worry about it.
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 10:24 AM
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    Panting vents

    Hi Mark, thank you for posting.

    Before the warm weather came all of my vents were chirping. The Gorton C I have in one room was panting, I guess.

    When the warm weather came I skimmed the boiler and added only one steamaster tablet in. Since this I have not heard a single sound from any vents.

    The problem is the weather changed as well, so I'm not sure if the cause is cold piping which causes a huge delay in steam to radiators, or lower amount of steamaster, or if I had oil in the water again.

    With the chirping and panting, my water level was fairly stable and didn't drop much during steaming. I also did not have any hammering.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
    This post was edited by an admin on March 2, 2013 10:25 AM.
  • Mark N Mark N @ 10:37 AM
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    Chirping Vent?

    Chris I have Gorton vents on all of my rads and they are very quiet. A gorton C is a fast vent. I could see it causing the steam velocity in the riser to be to fast causing problems with condensate draining from the rad. One would think there would be less noises the more often the boiler runs because the piping is hotter therefore making less condensate.
    I have no knowledge of steamaster tablets and side effects of using them. I use just regular water. The last boiler in my house lasted 75 years so I hoping my current can last for half that.
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 10:42 AM
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    Chirpign

    Yep, they were all chirping.
    Honestly I kind of miss it, it was kinda like a "hey, I'm on!" sound,. not loud but noticeable.


    I suspect it was caused by too much treatment, and it also makes me want to buy a more accurate PH tester than this roll of tape I have. Its hard to tell whether its 8, 9, 10, 11 and so on.

    For all I know it looks like 9 and its actually 11. I do like the idea of checking TDS of condensate though, and I do want to overdose just to see what I get as a measurement.


    I just added a second tablet to the boiler. Its going to take some time for it to mix into the system. I'll update later with my findings including whether or not the TDS in the wet return went up.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
    This post was edited by an admin on March 2, 2013 10:47 AM.
  • Mark N Mark N @ 10:52 AM
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    Obsession

    Chris if the piping is right and the water is good and the venting is adequate everything will be fine. Don't obsess and just sit back and enjoy the comfort,
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 11:00 AM
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    Can't

    What fun would that be Mark?

    :)
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 12:51 PM
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    What Gortons?

    Mark,

    I'm sorry if I have asked this previously, but what Gorton's are you using?  I found the #5s chirped the most while 4s are silent and 6s not so much.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Mark N Mark N @ 1:04 PM
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    Gortons

    I have Gorton #5's and #6's and 1 C.
  • jumper jumper @ 12:25 AM
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    not a bomb calorimeter

    Perhaps it's a throttling calorimeter we need to measure steam quality. Need to find the heat content per pound. Decades ago I embarrassed myself by forgetting that temperature & pressure are not sufficient to determine dryness of steam unless it's superheated.
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 10:32 AM
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    Saponification

    Chris, I was just pondering your observation, "Steamaster + oil = BAD just like most other treatments I think," and I started wondering if something like saponification is happening.

    Saponification is the process where organic fats and lye (sodium hydroxide or caustic soda) are boiled to make soap. While the oils that would be present in a boiler are chemically different from the triacylglycerides used in soap, they might be similar enough to form soap-like products in the high-pH environment with the addition of the Steamaster tablets.

    This would account for the effects people have observed when these tablets are added for the first time, but it also explains why it's a one-time-only phenomenon.

    If soapy substances are being formed, this would obviously cause foaming, but it also causes the remaining oily materials to be dispersed in the water so they can be flushed out when the boiler is drained.

    While this can't take the place of skimming, I think it can definitely remove the stubborn oily remnants that linger on after repeated attempts at skimming.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 1:18 PM
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    Soap

    Hi Hap,

    I think they could happen, but in my situation its not as my boiler has been clean since using the wand and skimming back in October.

    Just found out our next door neighbor paid more than us for heat in Jaunary in a smaller house with NG forced hot air and new style windows.  I'm in a VERY good mood today. :)
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 1:40 PM
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    I paid even less.

    A few weeks ago I took a second look at my utility bills and found that the hadn't been charging me for gas. Apparently the sending unit on the meter had stopped working, so even though the meter was still running, the reading they showed on the last two bills hadn't changed. I wonder how long it would have taken them to notice if I hadn't called them. I mean, did they really think I'd stopped using gas right in the middle of winter?
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • SWEI SWEI @ 12:46 AM
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    meter reading not changed

    out there this triggers an alert.  A tech comes out to inspect and test the meter about a week later.
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 8:08 AM
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    I had to call them

    I had to make an appointment for the technician to come out, so I could be there to re-light all my pilots.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • rmoore007ri rmoore007ri @ 3:59 PM
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    steamaster tablets == wet steam == low water

    I've been greening my new system as much as possible. Everything running beautifuly at very low pressure. No more that a 1/2 inch of dither in the site glass. Quiet. Just aded 4 tablets of Steamaster tablets. Water in the gauge glass dropped almost to the LWCO and I was spitting water out of the new Gorton #1 vent . . . Do not understand the chemistry here. But all the brown yucky stuff vanished and the glass is pale pink.

    Tomorrow will be the old connect the hose to the boiler and trail it outside and run water through the whole thing for 30 minutes . . .
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 4:06 PM
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    4!?

    Why did you use 4 tablets?
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • rmoore007ri rmoore007ri @ 4:22 PM
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    why I used 4 Steamaster tablets

    My Burnham boiler is rated at 358 sq ft / 86 MBH and the instructions said use 4 tablets for every 100 sq ft / 25 MBH . . . But I thought 15 tablets would be, er, way too much.

    I've no idea if with the passage of time the level will stop dropping. First time I've tried these.
    This post was edited by an admin on November 15, 2013 4:23 PM.
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 4:34 PM
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    358sqft

    Sounds like an IN5?
    I would use two tablets at the absolute most and only if you check the PH afterwards. One tablet if you want to play it safe.

    The instructions on the bottle cannot be followed.


    I would completely drain the boiler, rinse, refill and add 1 tablet.

    Good news is 4 tablets works great at cleaning the boiler, no harm is done.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. Using Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment to greatly reduce corrosion in the boiler.

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • rmoore007ri rmoore007ri @ 4:57 PM
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    Adding MUCH less steamaster than than they recommend

    Thanks for the recommendation. Exactly what I will do in the morning. (After repiping my pressure valve with a T so I can have a place to add the tablet.) Plus only have a 3/4 tapping so have to dissolve the thing in water . . . I'll report back here on how the level behaves after that . . .
  • rmoore007ri rmoore007ri @ 2:26 PM
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    flush then add one steamaster tablet :-)

    Progress:

    - I had added 4 steamaster tablets to my Burnham IN5 which resulted in wet steam and a water level near the LWCO
    -As suggested , I flushed the boiler and ran the system. The water level dropped an inch with less than one inch fluctuations.
    -I let the boiler cool down completely, added an access at the 3/4 inch safety valve tapping, added one steamaster tablet dissolved in water, and fired the boiler cold.
    - at 10 minutes I had 0.3 psi
    - at 10 1/2 minutes the 28 foot main had heat at the new Gorton #1.
    - at 12 minutes the 12 foot main had heat at the Vent-Rite #35.
    - everything is heating :-)
    - From 27 minutes to 34 minutes the gauge climbed from 0.5 psi to 1.4 psi.
    - Then shutdown on Hi Pressure and kicked in again at 0.4 psi.
    - The boiler water level dropped by about two inches with less that one inch fluctuations. Color me happy. Tomorrow tackle individual radiator vents.
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