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    Slower taco pump? (11 Posts)

  • Hotrod Hotrod @ 9:05 PM
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    Slower taco pump?

    Hello,
    I recently replaced my old Burnham 100k Holiday with a new Carrier BWB70k. The install went fine, chimney liner, expansion, etc... The house is 1200 sq ft ranch with single 1-1/4" loop, no zones. The 9" base rays are on single parallel loops off the 1-1/4" via 3/4".
    Pressure set to 10psi cold being its a ranch. The system runs fine, heats well, BUT I got a loud 'resonance' sound in the far end of the house (where the bedrooms are of course).
    The sound is similar to when the wash machine fills up and I am upstairs... It just sounds like water rushing in a pipe. I've worked with the installer, moved some basement ceiling tikes, tried pushing/holding the loop, nothing changes the sound until the pump stops.
    My question, should I try a taco 005 instead of the 007 that's on there now?
    Also to clarify: the setup is boiler-expansion tank/air vent- taco pump- and then onto the loop. The taco pump is vertical, pump hanging under the pipe.

    The old system was a 1/6hp B&G and the house was SILENT.

    any help is appreciated,
    Thanks
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:59 PM
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    Raise The Pressure:

    Raise the pressure to 16# and see what happens.
    18# if the 007 motor is mounted with the can on the top.
  • Hotrod Hotrod @ 10:42 PM
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    Additional details

    The pump hangs below the pipe.
    The initial fill showed 18# when we started it last week, the sound was literally the same. The installed came back on blend down the system (and backed off the fill regulator to 10#) the sound remained unchanged.
    Also, when the pump turns off there is a distinct 'clunk' sound. It happens ever time and it is not water hammer in the pipe line. The sound is directly from the circulator. Could the taco be a bad one?

    Lastly, after looking at Taco's graphs, maybe a 006 would be better being I only have 4 feet of head above the circulator to the highest rad....? Or am I barking up the wrong tree on this trying to quiet the system down?
  • Hotrod Hotrod @ 10:42 PM
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    Additional details

    The pump hangs below the pipe.
    The initial fill showed 18# when we started it last week, the sound was literally the same. The installed came back on blend down the system (and backed off the fill regulator to 10#) the sound remained unchanged.
    Also, when the pump turns off there is a distinct 'clunk' sound. It happens ever time and it is not water hammer in the pipe line. The sound is directly from the circulator. Could the taco be a bad one?

    Lastly, after looking at Taco's graphs, maybe a 006 would be better being I only have 4 feet of head above the circulator to the highest rad....? Or am I barking up the wrong tree on this trying to quiet the system down?
  • Ironman Ironman @ 10:48 PM
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    Taco Pump

    The circ should Not be mounted that way. The motor should be horizontal.

    I believe that you're misunderstanding "head" in a closed hydronic system. The term refers to dynamic head which is the resistance to flow created by friction in the piping. It has nothing to do with the height of the loop. In a closed loop, the drop in the return cancels the lift in the supply. Just like a Ferris wheel.
    Bob Boan



    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Paul48 Paul48 @ 11:51 AM
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    007

    Is that a 007 IFC? Your description sounds like a flow check clunking.You are probably pumping about 16 gpm, when you need 4 gpm
    This post was edited by an admin on March 23, 2013 12:01 PM.
  • RobG RobG @ 2:18 PM
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    Air

    Are you sure that you don't have air in the system? One simple thing to try is Mark Eathertons trick. Add a pint of Dawn dish washing liquid to the boiler water and let it run for a few days. Bleed the system accordingly and see what happens. The worst case is your out for the cost of the Dawn and a little bit of your time. The fact that you hear water rushing in only oneĀ area sounds like an air issue to me.
    RobĀ 
  • Hotrod Hotrod @ 9:46 AM
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    More Details, Please check My Numbers

    Thanks for the responses so far.
    Here are more details:

    (also, I've read up on pump head and agree that my velocity is way too high, and bled bled and power purged... its not air)

    I have 95 feet of 1-1/4" as the main loop. 8 flo thru T's, 2 flo into T's, 10 elbows, 4 ball valves. Using Taco's charts, I come up with 191 feet of effective loop. Based on their site's equation, I have about 3 feet of head.
    Boiler output is 58,000 into 53,000 of 9" BaseRay, and using 12* Delta (I read that baseboards like hotter consistent temps) I need about 9GPM.

    9GPM @ 3feet puts me in Taco 006 range. Do you think that the correct choice?

    The local supply house stocks just about every option. When I told them my issue, they said the 006 is a zone pump, to small for a main pump... They'd go no smaller then a 005 as a main pump. He offered a BumbleBee which I REALLY like.... but after reading the manual: "pump run for 3 minutes at full speed on start up". The would be counter productive with me trying to eliminate velocity noise?

    What do you guys think???
    Thanks!
  • Hotrod Hotrod @ 11:17 AM
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    Forgot to answer the other questions

    Sorry,

    I've bled bled and re bled everything multiple times, and all the rads are hot, so i don't think its air.

    The pump is an 007-F5 so it do not think its IFC. The system doesn't have check valve anywhere, neither did the old system... no bad effects as far as I can tell.
    However, once the installer rotated the pump to horzontial (from vertical hanging under the pipe) the noise quieted up 90%. The mild noise that occurs now when the pump shuts off is, I think, basically water hammer being I have so much velocity.
  • Hotrod Hotrod @ 6:28 AM
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    Clarification

    After re reading my last post I realized I wasn't very clear.
    Rotating the pump remidied the 'clunk' noise when the pump turned off.
    I still have the velocity noise issue and need advise on a Taco 005, 006, or bumblebee based on my numbers above. Thanks!
  • kcopp kcopp @ 7:10 AM
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    I would...

    try a Grundfos 15-58. That is 3 spd and then you can experiment w/ the diff speeds.
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