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    heat pumps and old apartment buildings (8 Posts)

  • AVSSCO AVSSCO @ 3:44 PM
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    heat pumps and old apartment buildings

    Not a comment, a question.

    I own an apartment in a 100 year-old, 6 story building in Manhattan. There are 114 units. The 100 year old oil boiler is old and inefficient. Is it feasible for EACH INDIVIDUAL UNIT to be responsible for its own heating and water heating? A tankless water heater and a heat pump perhaps?

    thank you, AVSSCO
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 6:00 PM
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    Anything's possible

    but whether or not it's a good idea........

    Tell us more about your system- post some pictures too. Is it a steam or hot-water system?
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
  • unclejohn unclejohn @ 10:35 PM
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    Like Steam

    Says, anything is possible, but how big a check do you want too write?
  • John Mills John Mills @ 1:25 PM
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    Options

    From a builder/landlord standpoint, heat pump with strips backup far
    less money and much less to go wrong. Rare to have to fix a heat kit,
    but those tankless machines are full of very expensive parts to fix.  Or
    is budget not an issue?  If this is high end, water source heat pumps
    with a boiler and tower. They could be billed for the juice of their
    heat pump usage and cost of supplemental heat & tower in the HOA
    bill.

    Another lower priced option is a good PTHP or 2. That way
    you don't have to snake linesets all around 6 stories and have 100 heat
    pumps up on the roof. The pictures below are a new condo building, 10
    stories, linesets up to 150' or more. Took special piping with a
    subcooler on the linesets and a 3/8" line back to the compressor from
    each condo. All 3 lines insulated.

    Or possibly a ducted packaged
    unit so no linesets and a quieter option than PTHP.
    http://www.firstco.com/Products/Multi-Family-Residential-Products/Single-Package-Vertical-Units/SPXR-HP-A-%28heat-pump-electric-heat%29.
  • nicholas bonham-carter nicholas bonham-carter @ 1:32 PM
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    inefficient heating system

    is this steam or hot water?
    why not describe what you have now, and would like to accomplish, and we can advise. why in particular do you think the system is inefficient?
    you may just need a properly functioning boiler.--nbc
  • tim smith tim smith @ 8:43 AM
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    Re; OLD BLDG

    Do you have a chiller also? No a/c?  Your most economical solution if heat and hot water only would be new high efficiency gas condensing boilers, indirect hot water tanks off boiler and use a external monitoring company who puts wireless useage sensors on the piping to each unit, they have tenants sign a billing agreement and they collect for this from the tenants for you. The charge for the service was not bad when I talked to one of my clients last. Other option to sensors is the external billing company basis useage on sq foot then no sensors. Not quite as equitable but still works and they get to deal with collecting this.  
  • nicholas bonham-carter nicholas bonham-carter @ 9:11 AM
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    Updated system

    If you are lucky enough to already have a zoned hot water system, with one zone per apartment with a thermostat in each, then you can put an hour-meter on each zone valve or pump. Reading each of the meters, and computing it's fraction of the total boiler runtime will give the usage number.
    However I suspect that you probably have a steam system, upon which little or no maintenance has been performed for many years, even though someone may have been billing you for an annual service.
    Getting the deferred maintenance in shape may result in a fuel savings of up to a third. The comfort level for all will increase greatly.
    Often condo/coop owners fear an increase in consumption if the system is to be made even for all, however that is ironically not the case. This summer would be the time to evaluate the system, and do the necessary work.--NBC
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 4:33 PM
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    For an example of this

    quote "Often condo/coop owners fear an increase in consumption if the system is to be made even for all, however that is ironically not the case."

    go here:
    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/142217/The-King-Of-All-Crossover-Traps

    In this case, the fuel consumption stayed the same, but the building now heats evenly with no open windows.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on April 26, 2013 4:34 PM.
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