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    Rumor has it (17 Posts)

  • Robert O'Brien Robert O'Brien @ 6:30 PM
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  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 10:29 AM
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    interesting...

    Is this placement in the kitchen a typical European thing? In the flyer the boiler is placed where normally a refrigerator would be.
  • Robert O'Brien Robert O'Brien @ 3:02 PM
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    Guess so

    Since I've never been in a European home,I'm not positive but it would appear so. Should make this with the Vitodens 100 for US market
  • Chris Chris @ 6:12 AM
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    There Is One

    In the Vitodens 100 version. They had it at ISH. There are thoughts about it coming over. With the new control VitoCom is coming over as an optional add on. There is a demo app in the ITunes store. Vitotrol Showcase.

    There is no longer a Power Pump Module with the new 200 and the combi boiler. Will also be set up for North America.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • Henry Henry @ 6:58 PM
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    Combi

    It does not work here were winter water is at 33F. There is not one little combi that works here. It works great in Europe (not Scandinavia), the far east and milder US states. But not in Northern areas with 5 gpm faucets! We refuse to install any combi units since they came out!
  • Gordan Gordan @ 7:35 AM
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    Not so much a combi...

    It has built-in storage (27 and 35 gal). It looks like it's meant to be a system-in-a-box. But it's a big hunk o' something! On the one hand, I can see the benefits of a well-integrated system... but, on the other hand, there are disadvantages, too. It is likely more expensive than something you'd build out of components, both up front and (especially) when something needs replacing. Also, you have less flexibility with tailoring the system to its various functions. And you have no flexibility with locating various bits to suit the space constraints. Let's face it, nobody in North America will put this thing in their kitchen or even bathroom, it will be in some corner of the basement where it has to fight for space with wiring, plumbing, and cat boxes.
  • Chris Chris @ 7:58 AM
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    Price Point Will

    Be competitive to having to purchase a 40 Gal indirect, the goodies and the labor to install it. I was at Viessmann Germany last month and seen it first hand. Sits on the floor like any other boiler and is piped no different then any other boiler except the indirect is all piped for you.

    I don't understand what you mean by, "less flexibility." As for nobody will put this up in their kitchen, etc. Take a drive through Long Island and the Jersey Shore that were effected by Sandy. There are plenty of consumers moving there boilers up to the laundry rooms. The Unit is 24" Wide x 65" Tall.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 8:27 AM
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    I have installed

    Rinnai units {condensing, very quiet} in kitchens, gb's in master baths, second floor laundry rooms, and Im doing a kitchen unit very soon with a TT 110 combi.
    I think if we had as much new construction as we did a decade ago we would have plenty of living space systems going in...

    I have done a lot of laundry room rinnai units them are easy, when installing a boiler is gets a little tricky, I have a carpenter/cabinet maker that can match the customer cabinets, he makes the cabinet to hold the unit with or without an exposed face, the cabinet goes to the ceiling for the venting and piping if needed, then he makes a cabinet under it to hold my expansion tank, circs, ect...
    He made the cabinets for my cousins house {entire kitchen}, I ran 1" pex to the unit {GB} supply and return and then installed everything on the other side of the kitchen in a closet, the condensate went straight down to the basement. That is exposed face, looks good but he said the noise takes getting used to... He put some sticky noise matting on the inside of the cabinet {which we never did get a fire rating on, I advised against it, I believe it was called dynamat} which he said quieted it rite down, and it has been there for a couple years so hopefully its not flammable...

    But anyway, I think Viessman is really doing a good job with their mod cons, I was never crazy about any of their other products but these mod cons are looking better and better, plus the prices are almost the lowest in the business...

    I would like to see a review comparing them with the TT units from someone with experience in both...
  • Chris Chris @ 9:11 AM
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    Prestige vs Vitodens

    Viessmann carries the better warranty. Lifetime on the HX. It also carries the better combustion system in my opinion with Lamda Pro. I think the Prestige is more forgiven and easier for the typical installer on a simple change out where as the Vitodens offers more in the control for mix temp applications. I also like the ease and ability in the Vitodens to limit high end modulation rate for a heating circuit independent of DHW.

    The biggest thing we see right now it DHW load requirement higher then heating requirement which you have better control with Vitodens then Prestige.

    The next version coming in a couple of months easing the control set up from the current Vitoronic 200 control and allowing VitoCom will put it ahead of everyone else from a control standpoint matching their combustion control advantage.

    LamdaPro is a huge combustion advantage.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • SpeyFitter SpeyFitter @ 3:52 PM
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    Tone it down a bit

    "Lambda Pro is a Huge Combustion Advantage"
    Whoah - hold your horses here. You should still have your boilers burner checked annually by a certified & trained burner & controls technician (Gas Fitter) with a combustion analyzer.
    Also, while very slight variations in fuel quality may occur North America, I find it hard to believe that the ability to adjust to varying fuel qualities is neccessarily that much of an advantage. I've said this before, and I'll say it again - if there were wide flucations in fuel quality in North America, the potential,  after a burner is set up, for liability will significantly increase. At the minimum could be fines for commercial or industrial organizations equipment burning outside of emissions targets if caught (when things get tougher on CO and NOx emissions overtime), at the worst people could be injured or killed if their burner goes out of a clean adjustment everytime the fuel quality changes and something happens.  Perhaps someone who has experience on the gas utility can produce some input on this topic.
    Even the Industrial Cleaver-Brooks boilers I've worked on with Oxygen Trim (which is sort of like the oxygen sensor in your car in it's ability to help sense and then fine tune Oxygen for efficiency/cleanliness) were still checked at least annually by an Industrial Gas fitter with a Combustion analyzer. The problem with all this high end equipment with built in combustion tuning is it was made by humans. And so it should still be checked out.
    I've seen the new Vitodens controller up close recently and the control pad looks like a nice user friendly improvement over previous versions of their controller. The fact the power pump module will be incorporated into the box now instead of being a seperate box is a nice improvement.  
    What I have heard through the grapevine is there will be 2 versions of the Vitodens 222, a smaller Vitodens 200, and a couple larger Vitodens as well (in wall mount configuration!) to fill the gap between the current 370,000 BTUH Vitodens and the smallest Vitocrossal 200 (which is around 600,000+ BTUH). Apparently by the end of the Summer they should be available.
    Class 'A' Gas Fitter - Certified Hydronic Systems Designer - Journeyman Plumber
  • Chris Chris @ 5:42 PM
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    Sure You Should

    I never said not to but you will find it is not needed. What controls the dew point? It's not water temp. So the boiler set up in July with an analyzer runs the same in Jan? Fresh air temp means nothing? Yes the gas company adds fillers during peak demands and yes the boiler will catch it. Being able to control fan speed independent of the gas valve gives better control over the combustion process.

    Was in Germany las month. The new BH2A Vitodens 200 will have a 5 to 1 turn down on the 19, 28 (old 26), and 35. The new 150 will go 113-530. Also common venting.

    Yes new HX for the larger 200's and I'm more excited by VitoCom then just the new control.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • SpeyFitter SpeyFitter @ 6:02 PM
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    Quality, not fluff

    Yes, I recognize that this technology (Lambda Pro) is able to tweak the burner using a modulating gas valve (on top of performing a calibration upon every time the burner starts) so it runs with relatively minimal oxygen at most firing rates (effectively raising the dew point which will maximize the ability of condensing to occur at higher water temperatures) and throughout the course of the heating season as intake air temps change which can add or subtract oxygen from the combustion process as air density increases/decreases.
     The reason I listen when Viessmann talks it their reputation for quality. Sure, they produce some cutting edge stuff but quality, and reliability combined with efficiency are the hall marks of a product that truly offers the potential of paying back the end user and that is what makes a "green" product to me. Using higher quality stainless (316 Ti) that they manufactur their heat exchangers with in houseis one example of their commitment to quality. The fluffy digital stuff is nice to work with but the knobs weren't that bad either. As long as you knew which knob did what you are ok.
    Class 'A' Gas Fitter - Certified Hydronic Systems Designer - Journeyman Plumber
  • Gordan Gordan @ 10:03 AM
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    By less flexibility...

    I mean that it's a fairly big box and you have to have room for the entire big box. In retrofit applications this may not always happen. In reality, it probably takes up less space than the equivalent system built out of parts. I hear you on people moving mechanicals out of the basement; hadn't thought of that since I'm far from any flood plane. I had actually looked at whether it would be possible to import a 333 some four years ago or so; at that point the 300 series were the only ones with lambda pro, they had better turn-down, the bus circulator, and were available with an actual indirect rather than flat plate + storage. That's how much I liked the concept - for myself. I decided that it was too scary to completely foresake any product support, even if it's something as solid as a Vitodens. ;-) So I'm not pooh-poohing the product.
  • Jack Jack @ 9:46 AM
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    Rinnai 85 & 130 QPremier

    http://www.rinnai.us/boiler/product/qp130n

    This is in the market now.
  • nj_don nj_don @ 6:12 PM
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    So where is the 222-f?

    Can anyone confirm the Vitodens availability in the US? I am looking to convert from oil and was about to go with the 200 but with the built in indirect seems the better choice.

    How about pricing?
  • Chris Chris @ 7:12 AM
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    The 222F

    Model 19 is avail right now. Its the 35's that will not be avail until around Thanksgiving. I have the pricing and I'm in NJ so drop me an email. If your a homeowner I can hook you up with a Viessmann Partner contractor, if a contractor, I'll quote ya.

    Putting the 19 in my house. My DHW demand is basically one shower at a time. Scrapping the zoning, slapping a Vitotrol 300A in place of the T-Stat, piping it direct and letting it fly. My heat loss is only 36K and I've changed out all my base board to hi cap so can start my curve for a 140 degree water temp at design.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • VA_Bear VA_Bear @ 12:09 AM
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    The mushrooms growing on my tool bag...

    will never survive the daylight outside of the basement boiler room!!!

    :-P
    VABear
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