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    Viessmann Vitodens 100 vs 200? (19 Posts)

  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 9:54 AM
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    Viessmann Vitodens 100 vs 200?

    Could someone tell me in detail what's the difference between the 100 and 200? The price difference between the two is around $1k-2k. Both have ~95% efficiency, but does that assume the 100 can achieve that efficiency with a stable gas quality while the 200 can achieve that even when the gas quality fluctuates because of the Lamda pro?

    I am wondering if it's worth paying more for the 200. Thanks!
    This post was edited by an admin on July 2, 2013 9:55 AM.
  • Paul Pollets Paul Pollets @ 10:02 AM
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    the difference

    The 200 has more bells and whistles. Aside from the Lambda gas valve, the computer is set up to take a motorized 3 way mixing valve and can be controlled by either the Vitotrol 200 or 300 thermostat. It is designed for continuous circulation and not fired by a conventional thermostat. The 100 is basically designed for a single temp + an indirect or the Combi water maker. If you need 2 temps for the radiant design, the 200 is the model. You can still get 2 temps from the 100, but the wiring terminal is not set up for automatic mixing.
    The 100 is priced competitively for the N. American market.
  • Robert O'Brien Robert O'Brien @ 11:54 AM
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    I agree

    Single temp system,the 100 is all you need.
  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 2:04 PM
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    What is 2 temp?

    My house has 3-zone baseboard heating. When you said "2 temps", do you mean one temperature of hot water for one zone and a different temperature for another zone?
  • SpeyFitter SpeyFitter @ 1:24 PM
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    "It depends"

    By the time you outfit a Vitodens 100 with the accessories neccessary (KWE Pump module, Como OT controller) to control a few extra pumps (or with relays, etc.), and have some decent level of digital control, you are in the neighbourhood of the 200 price wise. The 200 is so much more intuitive and easier to control (aka stand on it's head) on top of the new 200 boilers that are coming out in a few monthes have an App that allows you to control them with your smart phone. I wouldn't worry THAT much about fluctuating gas quality however, at least in North America although Lambda Pro is nice to have (but it's no substitute for proper boiler/burner serviceman checking your burner out regularly). The Vitodens however is a nice simple, basic boiler with the same heat exchanger at the 200 just way less integrated control on board. For me the upsell to the 200 is easily worth the slight increase in cost if you're going apples to apples for a system that does more than just basic heat only.
    Class 'A' Gas Fitter - Certified Hydronic Systems Designer - Journeyman Plumber
  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 2:11 PM
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    LP

    The boiler will run on LP. I don't know how it compares to NG in terms of gas quality, but do you think the Lamda Pro can take advantage of LP?
  • Paul Pollets Paul Pollets @ 6:36 PM
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    Lambda and Propane

    The Vitodens 200 automatically adapts to either propane or natural gas. A setting is changed on both the gas valve and internal control coding when using propane.
    This post was edited by an admin on July 2, 2013 8:46 PM.
  • Chris Chris @ 7:47 PM
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    100 vs 200

    The Vitodens 100 and 200 sport the same heat exchanger and venting and it ends there. Wouldn't buy either right now. The new 200 is coming Sept 1. No power pimp module, upgraded control and lower end btu/Hr output. Can't discuss price here but lets say price is going south not north..

    Detail, its simple, the 100 has a basic control that allows you to set an outdoor reset curve. The 200 control allows for control of DHW schedule, heating schedules, night time setback, and uses Lamda Pro Combustion to always run a peak efficiency. Unlike any other condensing boiler out there it is always set up for optimal combustion where as all the others are set up for the day the installer hooked up his combustion analyzer.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    This post was edited by an admin on July 3, 2013 7:51 PM.
  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 12:23 AM
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    new 200

    Is that the one with a built-in 26 gal indirect?
  • Chris Chris @ 8:23 AM
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    No. That Would Be

    The 222-F. Also remember these products are not new, they are just new to us. Been around for a few years in service across the pond. The 222-F is pricey compared to other combi boilers supporting a built in or on indirect.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 12:16 PM
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    Must be this one

    http://www.viessmann-us.com/en/Residential/Products/gas/Vitodens_200_B2HA.html

    That's the new 200 you talked about right?
  • Chris Chris @ 12:22 PM
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    That's The New

    Vitodens 200 non combi. The only sizes avail now are the 3 larger
    sizes. All others Sept. They also have no racks for these for
    multiple boiler applications until Sept.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • SWEI SWEI @ 12:33 PM
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    Love the turndown on those new models

    I'm assuming they'll publish altitude derating for the smaller models soon?
  • Chris Chris @ 12:41 PM
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    Not With

    There is no derating with LamdaPro combustion Kurt. What ya see is what
    ya get. I'll email you the pricing after the weekend. Have the combi too. Not happy
    with it's price point. It didn't come in where I expected or should I say where I
    was told it was going to be.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • SWEI SWEI @ 12:45 PM
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    Altitude derating

    Is always a factor, unless the fan and burner are oversized (which would limit turndown at lower altitudes.)

    From p.4 of the brochure:

    Note: For high altitude installations (5,000 to 10,000 ft.), the input for model B2HA 100 and 150 will have an altitude de-ration of 14% for 5,000 ft. and 29% for 10,000 ft. The input for model B2HA 112 at 10,000 ft. will have an input de-rate of 21%. Information subject to change without notice.
  • sunlight33 sunlight33 @ 1:09 PM
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    Decision..

    If I want to put a 200 in my house, do you think it's worth waiting for the new 200 in terms of both price and functionality?
  • Robert O'Brien Robert O'Brien @ 2:26 PM
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    Sunlight

    I wouldn't wait, how often do you change the programming? Not often,after it's setup particularly on a single temp system. Not saying this will be the case here,but I've heard September from many manufacturers,they just didn't say what year! :)
  • SpeyFitter SpeyFitter @ 10:21 PM
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    One thing worth noting

    The Vitodens 100 does have the capability to do higher water temperatures. Not a big difference but worth noting. The Vitodens 100 can do up to 176 F for space heating vs 167 for the Vitodens 200, and the 100 can do 172 (fixed) for DHW production (I believe it does 176 for the combi plus DHW kit but 172 for an indirect if you close the DHW dry contact) vs 165 for the 200 for DHW (I know the 165 is adjustable if I recall from reading but how much can it adjust above 165 if possible?).

    Check out the new BH2A specs of the Vitodens 200 online - they just put them on their website the other day: http://www.viessmann.ca/en/Residential/Products/gas/Vitodens_200_B2HA.html

    I like the low end of the 3 smallest boilers - 12,000 to 67,000 input, 19,000 to 100,000 BTUH input, and 19,000 to 125,000 BTUH input. And the heat exchangers are all the same size so that to me says the 12,000 to 67,000 BTUH input should be a bit more efficient with a larger heat exchanger to soak up the heat.
    Class 'A' Gas Fitter - Certified Hydronic Systems Designer - Journeyman Plumber
  • SpeyFitter SpeyFitter @ 2:30 AM
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    Just had this thought pop into my head today...

    The Vitodens heat exchanger, has a stainless steel casing around the heat exchanger which seperates the wet flue gas/condensate, that has moved from the combustion zone through the heat exchanger passages, from the intake air in the boiler cabinet. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but IF the air temperature in the boiler cabinet is less than 130 F say, condensation should (if it did not occur on the heat exchanger for some reason i.e. higher water temps) occur on the walls of this casing (where it would run down to the condesate drain) and transfer the latent heat to the combustion air, correct? (effectively raising the combustion air temp a bit causing slightly increased efficiency in the combustion process). '

    NOW, would there not be any room for Viessmann to put a second, plastic, casing around the stainless heat exchanger casing with a space between the plastic & stainless layers, and a large opening at the top, and have the combustion air pull it's air from this area? That way it's sucking the hottest air possible from the boiler cabinet, air that has had the latent heat from the flue gas transferred to it? Basically air comes from intake pipe into boiler cabinet, air from cabinet gets sucked into this area as a small pre-heat where the latent heat of combustion is transferred to it before getting sucked into the combustion fan intake/swirl chamber?

    OK - perhaps this is not much in the grand scheme of things, BUT, if it increases combustion efficiency 0.005%, and you do that accross thousands of boilers, that's a lot of fuel saved.
    Class 'A' Gas Fitter - Certified Hydronic Systems Designer - Journeyman Plumber
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