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    does everything look Okay? (9 Posts)

  • pooteo pooteo @ 4:53 PM
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    does everything look Okay?

    i spent 4 months doing research and mock ups and asking questions and i finally installed a new oil boiler with 3 zones. The picture is what the finished project looks like.
       The first pump with the mixing valve is for the radiant heat on zone one
    and the other two pumps are for zone two and three respectively.
         I connected the supply and return line with closely spaced T's

     My question is since i have never actually seen how a real setup looks like in real life or know how it is supposed to work.. does everything in the picture look like it is set up the right way, in the right order?
    Joe
  • STEVEusaPA STEVEusaPA @ 6:27 PM
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    Nice workmanship.......but........

    I hate to burst your bubble but there are a lot of things wrong.
    Flue pipe and draft regulator are way wrong.  Can't see what else is tied in to it, probably an oil fired hot water heater?
    Spirovent/water feed/expansion tank are not where I would put them (what's holding the tank up?).
    Something is wrong with the manifold, but I can't see down the left side of the boiler to see the return piping.
    The mixing valve-where is it getting its cold side mix from?
    Is there another circ for the boiler loop?  If not, how does the water, from the zone returns get back into the boiler.
    Take a few more pics, from farther back, and from straight on the boiler.  Also up high showing the flue pipe from both appliances.
    Just trying to help.
    steve
  • pooteo pooteo @ 7:38 PM
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    more pics

            I copied the original design on the flu pipe that was there with the forced hot air furnace. (15+yrs) how should it be?
            I have the steel cable holding up the expansion tank. Its screwed to the wall
            I was told by someone (that i paid) that i did not need a circulator pump in the loop, that the zone circulators would be fine.. Where should it be?
            The cool water for the cold side  of the mixing valve comes from the return header. thats why the return header has 4 pipes and the supply side only has 3.
      the room isnt that big so its hard to get good visual pictures. but from what you dont see on the return loop. all it does from what you see is go back into the return on the boiler.
    thanks for your help so far btw.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 8:04 AM
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    Draft Regulator:

    Both appliances (Oil Boiler and Oil Fired Water Heater) need their own draft regulators. And the flue size may be wrong for the combined output and length of the flue for both appliances.

    I wouldn't use a CI PRV Fill Valve and black nipple between two  copper/brass cold water fittings. It's a personal thing. I never put ferric metal between two non-ferric metal connections. The dissolving iron will clog the strainer screen in the fill valve and cause it to stop working.

    No vacuum relief valve on the water heater.
    This post was edited by an admin on October 30, 2013 8:06 AM.
  • Weezbo Weezbo @ 3:35 PM
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    a couple things ...

    1. the supply mix temp and
    2. the return temp at the gauge on the return.

    i am considering a possibility that with only a mixed temp circulating that your return may stay little bit cooler than you would prefer . the reason being even though it is a fixed mix (no electrical mechanical actuating control) you have the potential to have built in a self destructing mechanism to your boiler .

    with just the mix calling for heat what protects your boiler from low temps?

    ok,
    a couple more
    1. Where is the make up air ? just one of the two burners can eat huge quantities of available oxygen per hour of burner run time , for that lash up you are looking for something along the lines of a nine inch round with a screen to the great outdoors.
    2. the minor technicality with the barometric damper can be the source for the "Make Up air" meaning no matter which way you orientate the barometric damper even in the correct horizontal position the other appliance firing could draw the spent flue gasses out of there through the room and to the other burner.
    we are not making this up out of thin air , although it may sound like it.
    really, you gave it a heck of a go... buh... you would be way ahead of the game to have a list to follow to get some of this stuff in order .
    the life of the inhabitants may not be as durable as the iron counterparts in your boiler room.

    here are a couple more
    1. The pipe you use for the stack should be 24 gauge not 32 gauge duct work,
    the tape that you used on the joints is for that type of pipe.
    we use 3 mechanical fasteners per joint ,often fire rated silicone and a heavier metal tape as well as .

    were you to have the T for the barometric down near the spirovent with the barometric approximately 18 " off the deck of the boiler faced at the oil fired water heater ,
    you could then pipe the exhaust vents a little bit tidier . the minor technicality with the venting with the two appliances is when they come together that pipe needs to be at least one pipe size larger. that does not appear what is seen as it out of the picture frame .

    2.when it leaves that boiler room space i hope you have it going into L vent.
    this particular point is really important .
    a couple of draw bands would aid reassembly any time you do maintenance , als0.
    ok,...
    so now lets look at the cold side of the mix and the lack of an anti scold devise on the oil fired water heater.
    [ *~/: )) yah the word is Scald however go with me on this,...]
    ... your radiant loop will get cooler water temps were the return fluid given a choice to go to the mixer or to the boiler. that is accomplished with a check valve and T .
    with it banged right into the mixer (while true ,water stratifies) off the bottom of the return header .?*
    the return from any type of emitter is there buh where is the cooler water coming from ...?... { you neither know the temp on the cool side of the mix nor the temp going back to the boiler that can be controlled }
    />
    now the anti scolding devise : p you probably wouldn't want to get caught installing even a water maker indirect with out one as you will get an earful on the whys and wherefores ... so you may as nudge in an anti scald mixer on the potable while you are at this .
    .....
    there are pieces like low water cut offs secondary high limits that also get bolted up on new boilers these days . there are some examples of things that are seen or in the area ,
    the burner side feed and the valve to close off oil flow manually and a fuel canister with an oil line meltdown valve for safety,... known as," the valve i turned that seems to have lost some of its threads,and now my boiler wont go", are somewhat outside of the view as well ,..... and if these appliances are fed by a tank where any part of it is above the burner ,...you can save yourself a lot of hassle by using an oil safety valve or osv , which is different from the firematic meltdown and also different from a wog valve that is used at times of maintenance, ahead of the both of them. there are things like heat shields etc that are also required when the flue pipes are too close to the wall .each muni etc have more or even more stringent rules regarding combustible surface ratings .
    i ought not say anything more, or you are going to think i am a spy for the building inspectors in your area. lol
    and with the amount of mistakes i make in spelling ,punctuation and my own form of jargon you. may wonder how anyone sees what i say as help .... i do trust though that you get the answer is no.
    however, i will say , it is not time to call in the sawzall surgeons on this one.
    you found the right help . here someone stops by every so often so you get a change of perspective . good luck and it may be sorta macho to post a pic or two of the oil piping to the burners ...just so that you get a grip on what needs or doesn't need to be done there.
    This post was edited by an admin on November 4, 2013 2:18 AM.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 8:06 AM
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    not only that Ice,

    the draft control is sideways. Is the pic a test of knowledge?  Sorry, but I don't know of any legit research that would result in an install like this.
  • earl burnermann earl burnermann @ 7:32 PM
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    Extol tank

    How many feet of half inch copper do you have holding that expansion tank. When that tank fails I wouldn't be surprised if it slipped out of it's holster(?) and ripped off the boiler.
    If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!
    This post was edited by an admin on November 3, 2013 7:35 PM.
  • pooteo pooteo @ 8:25 AM
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    I called in a professional

       I wanted to thank everyone for your input. but being a novice i couldn't understand some of your posts Jargon.
        I had a guy come in an "inspect" my work.  my fear was that someone was incorrectly installed and would cause harm to my family.
        From what he saw, everything is running fine. i did make a lot of mistakes.
          ----- The draft control was sideways (there is something written on it for vertical or horizontal installations.thats how i made that mistake).
         ------Black pipe and brass and copper touching is bad and should be fixed
         ------The mixing valve cold water supply should be "T'd" from the return line of the loop not from the header.
         ------No need for the supply/return line to be connected with closely spaced t's
         ------blow flow valves are vertical and need to be horizontal
        Joe
  • RobG RobG @ 4:36 PM
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    I've Been Waiting

    I've been waiting for someone to point this out but can hold my tongue no longer.
    There is no way that system can be flowing correctly. It is pulling both supply and return water. Although I would pipe it primary secondary because of those 1/2" pex lines. The only way this can work is if that tee coming off the supply is changed out for a 90 degree elbow. That way the pumps are isolated to the supply.
    Just my opinion,
    Rob
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