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  • Robert O'Brien Robert O'Brien @ 7:55 PM
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  • Jim Davis Jim Davis @ 11:09 AM
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    carbon monoxide leak?

    I love the term "carbon monoxide leak"!.   Do they make a sealer for that?  Some kind of paste or patch? 
    How about another school, this time in Oklahoma!   I bet parents like sending their kids to school not knowing if they will be coming home each night.
    Did they mention everything was installed according to Code and manufacturers recommendations.  Yes it was!   But we have to do it that way or we will get in trouble.  It is up to others to protect themselves not us!
  • Weezbo Weezbo @ 2:15 AM
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    i recall that you are definitely on the oil side ,

    of this topic as well as nat gas and propane (L.P) products mixed gasses , detectors ,electrical measurements thru combustion gasses , boiler chamber sizes and configurations and it is important to me as well.. ,

    what it is that concerns me aat the moment is , there is a 3/8th high bead of refractory sticking up along the entire right hand side of a threepass boiler , with what looks remarkably like a staple "Paper or office staple", that is bent and covered with what appears to be some type of adhesive also on the lower right hand side of the chamber on the first section . The thing of that is, it is having a "Tail" as it were, that trails off in the direction of the burner ,about the length of two office staples long ...

    i have tried to think o f how this could be in a boiler from the manufacturers and i have also contemplated what purpose it is preforming and if it may have been a location for some sensor or devise for monitoring say co or moisture for now , because honestly i do not know if it is part of the design and was meant to be there or if its some sort of fluke or some very odd anomaly in the manufacturing process.
    i have never seen anything like this in a new boiler.

    the refractory being squeezed out into the boiler between sections all along the right hand side is something else i seriously question in my mind against the backdrop of anything like that other than a novice "Sealing air leaks" on some old hunk of iron designed for coal being relined with refractory bricks or maybe a conversion "Build in chamber by someone who doesn't fully understand the dynamics within a fire chamber.
    Long long time back , an old Indian friend of mine told me ,DO NOT leave ridges or anything buh the smoothest surface possible with anything that you Add to a fire chamber.
    for an example i would not allow a commercial incinerator to be fired until everything that i fixed and repaired was better than the day it was born : )..

    Do you think that i am being too picky or overly analytically in thinking these two anomalies do not belong in a new boiler ?

    Would you say that the 3/8ths bead of dried refractory cement along one hemisphere of the inside of the boiler chamber was acceptable ?

    He also said to me ,
    "If you see a bead that is dried within a combustion chamber do not make any attempts to remove it or scrape it off , take the sections apart and redo it right ."

    right now i am thinking i really really do not desire to be doing all that and yet , i am sad for this being in my boiler.
    Weezbo .

    could something like this cause tremendous imbalance in CO in your opinion ?

    i think it can however , i am open to what you say to me .
  • Jim Davis Jim Davis @ 12:02 PM
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    3/8 beads

    That is probably the least of our troubles.  Doesn't affect combustion, combustion air or venting for the most part.  Could it leak some CO outside the cabinet.  Not as much as most drafthoods do. 
    If combustion is adjusted correctly most others things are less of a concern.  Understand there are lots of unvented appliances that dump 100% of everything into the building.
    The unfortunate thing about controlling combustion is you have to control combustion air and venting first.   In most cases venting or draft controls combustion air to the burner, but not necessarily to the room.  For draft to control combustion air to the burner, the flue has to be attached to the appliance, not just be near it. 
  • Weezbo Weezbo @ 12:26 AM
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    ok my entire posted reply diassapeared .

    so thank you for your insight and help.
    Weezbo
  • Weezbo Weezbo @ 10:22 PM
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    what i was referring to was within the combustion chamber

    of an oil fired boiler s combustion chamber ...
    that had changed suddenly and in an inexplicable way .

    my hazardous conclusion is that it had something to do with water on the floor cement dust and possibly ,
    some chemical binder within the combustion chamber itself .

    i seal my interior flue to the boiler with 3 metal fasteners , high heat silcone bead , and a specialty fire foil tape. the type of vent material thru the attic and out the roof is L vent .

    an ant could not find its way out of the building thru the pipe .
    because my inspection point is a brass nipple which i thread in and with some red high heat silicone as a sealer down to whatever micron level that may conceivably be ...with a hex head brass cap with another very thin layer of what amounts to a thin layer of Teflon to aid in future removal ... just to assure you that the question was one of something creating imbalance within a combustion chamber ...

    i cleaned everything and it is fine i removed that bead and some metal office staple within the chamber cleaned the gun , i considered maybe it was a como of due point and condensing because that could happen with outside barometric pressures drastically changing with water in the combustion chain ..
    i hate to say it buh i was really looking for something along the lines of what combination of events would have to occur to produce high Co , in the chamber itself . could something be happening in the fuel pump? if so the riello oil pressure and vac tool i own would surely indicate that ... was it some Thing in the oil filtration system that somehow got entrained in the nozzle opening in the firing pattern firing off center ? if so surely my filtrations especially the tigerloop combo or the general ahead of it with a pleated paper rather than wool , something different somewhere ...
    i have noticed on some manufacturers burner flare a deplorable lack of reaming the pipe of which the specialty flare is made for the fuel gun nozzle holder and nozzle attachment ...buh because this is a Riello and all laser guided precision cut and fit parts and pieces i quickly dismissed taking to removing the nozzle holder ...lol
    You i know probably are well versed in the most minute of details that can create imbalances and did not wish to write a book to my question in response lol...
    or further me afield with questions that would not really aid me in my endeavours.
    That is the major minor technicality , Having to write a book in reflection of almost inconceivable possibilities in determining cause ...
    the firmly affix blame, then the cause ... is not what i am after , understanding unfortunately only reaches as far as understanding reaches .

    ........
    i am fortunate to have had a friend or two along lifes highway who though now on to a more certain reward gave of their experience and knowledge freely as we do here .

    That someone may learn something that perhaps they can use in the future or in the immediate.

    a long time ago i found a book that had all blank pages ,...i think it was a First edition may have been the eleventh though ... Sometimes words have no meaning ...

    that sensorcon with the hand pump for personal co is one heck of a deal ....because co outside of the sealed combustion appliance is something most gas appliance workers do not need many more healthy dosages of in their days...
    well Thanks again ... i am off to an engineering site ..

    Weezbo.
  • Jim Davis Jim Davis @ 10:39 AM
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    CO causes in oil

    What series of events can cause CO to be produced oil?  The nfirst thing I eliminate is the weather because that is changing all the time but our equipment should be set up so that doesn't matter.
    CO on oil is normally caused by flame or oil impingement and then fuming off.  The exceptions are overfiring and underfiring.  Oil csn make thousands of ppm of CO at zero smoke and underfired or at smoke numbers above #6 when overfired.  In both cases it is poor combustion instead of impingement.
    A slipping coupling or tight pump could cause some problems.  Monitoring CO at Light-Off, Run Cycle and Shut-Down give many keys to minor mechanical problems that won't show up as problem until later.  Knowing your combustion numbers and CO numbers start to finish makes diagnosing a lot easier.
    One of my students ask me the other day why he couldn't bring all the numbers on a furnace in line because they weren't right.  Unfortunately he didn't give me the numbers and I had no clue.
  • Jim Davis Jim Davis @ 10:57 AM
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    CO causes in oil

    What series of events can cause CO to be produced oil?  The nfirst thing I eliminate is the weather because that is changing all the time but our equipment should be set up so that doesn't matter.
    CO on oil is normally caused by flame or oil impingement and then fuming off.  The exceptions are overfiring and underfiring.  Oil csn make thousands of ppm of CO at zero smoke and underfired or at smoke numbers above #6 when overfired.  In both cases it is poor combustion instead of impingement.
    A slipping coupling or tight pump could cause some problems.  Monitoring CO at Light-Off, Run Cycle and Shut-Down give many keys to minor mechanical problems that won't show up as problem until later.  Knowing your combustion numbers and CO numbers start to finish makes diagnosing a lot easier.
    One of my students ask me the other day why he couldn't bring all the numbers on a furnace in line because they weren't right.  Unfortunately he didn't give me the numbers and I had no clue.
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