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    need help with one pipe steam system,, rookie! (22 Posts)

  • lappy lappy @ 6:06 PM
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    need help with one pipe steam system,, rookie!

    Hi,,,, two family house, new Williamson steam boiler installed,,,, problem: 2nd floor, bathroom and bedroom both leaking dirty water out of air vent, one baseboard on 1st floor leaking water,, bad water hammer at start up and water bubbling inside all three radiator,, these are all radiators for back rooms of house if that helps, front of house radiators working perfect,,,,, all radiators pitched the right way, all valves open, swapped out rad vents on bad radiators and working vents still shooting water so that's not an issue,,,, when boiler installed o have no main vent in basement, and also only have wet return, no dry return,,, pressure in system is good, 0.5 cut in and cut out at 1 , lowest settings possible,,,, any ideas??? Posting pic of boiler and piping hopefully shows enough info,, please look over and share your expert steam thoughts,, thank you !
  • Hap_Hazzard Hap_Hazzard @ 11:29 AM
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    Pictures?

    It could be any number of different things, but it's hard to narrow it down without seeing how the boiler is piped and an overall look at the whole system. A picture is really worth a thousand words here.
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S

    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ALIGA ALIGA @ 11:32 AM
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    pictures, and skim!

    as hap mentioned, pics needed to see the piping. And I can probably tell you, you need to skim, skim, and skim.
  • lappy lappy @ 1:23 PM
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    bad piping and more

    Was told piping is a mess,, posting pics now...
  • N/A @ 2:12 PM

    another good boiler

    Another good boiler piped totally wrong.. the installer didn't even open the installation package!.. get your money back from them and find a reputale boiler company to re-do this job correctlly.
  • Rod Rod @ 2:31 PM
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    Proper Boiler Piping Configuration

    Hi- Unfortunately the installer didn't bother to read the installation manual. Here's a good video of Dan's which outlines how the near boiler piping should be configured
    http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/107/Steam-Heating/118/Steam-boiler-near-boiler-piping:
    Have the person that did the installation correct it.
    - Rod
  • N/A @ 3:03 PM

    i wouldnt even

    Re hire the same guy as he botched up the job so bad that he shouldn't even. Be doing it in the first place!! As I said, get the money back, minus material, and find someone that knows steam heating system. There are a huge differance from hiring a furance , or plumbing companies than a true hydronic heating companies..
  • N/A @ 3:05 PM

    about that u tube videohey

    Hey dan H., anyway to make that video(s) closed captioned so I can 'hear' it??? Thanks!
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 5:11 PM
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    CC

    If you click the youtube symbol on the video and then click "watch on youtube" then you can turn closed captioning on.  However, I have no problem hearing and understanding Mr Holohan in that video.

    Perhaps after seeing a small sample of steam boilers piped wrong  you may understand why us "homeowners" try to help folks out on here.  If you haven't already, click on the link in my signature and you can see how I pipe a steam boiler.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
    This post was edited by an admin on November 29, 2013 5:13 PM.
  • lappy lappy @ 7:38 PM
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    just wanna say..

    Thanks,, I see plenty of mistakes and im slowly starting to understand the concept of steam heat after tons of research.... I do appreciate you guys responding back with great insight,,,spoke with plumber and he has no issues about doing whole system over,,, hopefully my issues disappear after the corrections,,,, will keep u posted after all work is complete... any more suggestions im open to any thoughts... glad I joined this site, have many years to go with steam heating....
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:48 PM
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    Mistakes

    If he is willing to fix his mistakes then I would say he is a good man. Everyone makes mistakes. It's only the people who refuse to admit it that are a problem.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • Paul48 Paul48 @ 7:58 PM
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    Everything

    Make him do everything over. It doesnt even look like the smoke-pipe is connected correctly. It looks like it's over the elbow.
  • lappy lappy @ 7:52 PM
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    btw

    Chris j,after looking at plenty of piping jobs on the site I also looked at your work, wished u lived in Brooklyn,, looks like your a true professional.... very impressive...
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 7:57 PM
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    Professional

    Thank you for the compliments.
    However I'm an electronic technician not an HVAC pro. :)


    I recently picked a broken monitor top refrigerator up out of Brooklyn but its a good hour+ drive for me.

    Your boiler is almost identical to mine other than being a little smaller. If you have your guy pipe yours the same it would work beautifully. However It will end costing quite a bit more in materials though so don't be surprised.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 8:03 PM
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    Other thing

    Please make sure he installs the skimmer as this is a must. Without it you will not be able to skim the oils out of the boiler. You can see this in my pictures if you look its a large pipe and valve sticking out of the side of the boiler with nothing hooked to it.

    You are also missing the hartford loop and equalizer. I would also recommend running the feed water into the return line by the hartford loop instead of directly into the boiler. The reason for this is it makes it less likely to crack the block if someone feeds water too fast.

    I'm not sure about the flue, but what Paul is saying is the new piece should fit into the old elbow, not over it.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • MDNLansing MDNLansing @ 8:10 PM
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    Yikes

    I can understand an installer being so smart he doesn't need the manual, but do people even look at them anymore? He couldn't have even thumbed through the install without knowing this is wrong. This still amazes me.

    The manual doesn't show the king and return valves but you might want to ask about them. It shouldn't cost you much more than material cost to install them. I would also suggest getting the manufacturers minimum requirements into the new agreement. Something like "Plumber agrees to install near boiler piping in in accordance to or better than manufacturers minimums piping specifications for the quoted price"

    Good luck with this, I hope he honors his word and makes this right for you.
  • ALIGA ALIGA @ 8:59 PM
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    Pipes

    I would also recommend increasing the riser pipe and pipe for return. Don't let them bush it down.
  • ChrisJ ChrisJ @ 9:05 PM
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    Depends

    That depends.

    I bushed mine down from 3" to 2" due to cost and two 2" risers is far more than necessary for this size boiler.
    Weil-McLain EG-45 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

    Steam system pictures updated 6/5/14.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#
  • ALIGA ALIGA @ 10:47 PM
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    i agree Chris

    but if he is only utilizing one takeoff, then i would upsize it.
  • mahoney mahoney @ 7:36 AM
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    Do you have a bay window

    Do you have a bump out on the first floor ( bay window ) which might carry the riser to the second floor. My house does. The bump out has sagged enough to cause the riser to the second floor to get pooling water. this water bangs and if the pressuretroll is set to high, water will spit from the air vents.

    Check for sagging pipes in the basement. I also had a broken hanger in a two family i own. caused a lot of banging and spitting.
    This post was edited by an admin on December 1, 2013 7:39 AM.
  • mahoney mahoney @ 7:46 AM
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    Sagging pipes in basement.

    After reading your post again, check for sagging pipes. The boiler in the house i live in
    has some strange near boiler piping, and works fine. I would hate to see you have to change all manner of stuff only to find a broken hanger in the basement is the problem.
  • Rrey Rrey @ 10:54 AM
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    first glance

    Looking at the installation, it looks just like a hydronic installation minus the exp tank and circulator. This looks to me like his first crack at a steam boiler installation.
    This job jumps out as a guy that was in over his head. It needs to be uninstalled and reinstalled correctly. The laws of steam heating arent based on opinions, but on the unyeilding laws of physics. You cant reason with them, there's no debate. They must be followed.
    Hopefully it'll come out in the long run, but if he fixes it, it'll still be his first steam boiler and youre paying to teach him. If a pro does it, youre paying twice for the same job.
    Either way you'll be coming out under water.
    Damn shame...
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