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    System Running. I am extremely grateful! (22 Posts)

  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 2:12 PM
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    System Running. I am extremely grateful!

    I have completed the first phase of my heating system (boiler and first floor) and would like to extend a big thanks to the members of this community for the help I received here. Since July of 2013 I posted many questions ranging through but not limited to; refurbishing old rads, hydronic ceiling design, system design, circulator selection, boiler selection etc.  I received a lot of helpful, professional advice.  I am extremely grateful.

    I finally lit the boiler off about midnight this past Sunday. I’ve been enjoying collecting data and tweaking the system curve and balancing between the Radiant Ceiling and the radiators. I really  love these old rads! They keep the space comfortable with no noticeable air currents and when I come in from the cold I can just have a seat on one and warm right up.  Very toasty indeed.
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 2:18 PM
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    There is still

    Lots of little details to wrap up.

    One thing that bugs is, after all the $ I spent on this, I really with I would have spent a little more on a nicer piece of plywood.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 10:35 AM
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    Plywood:

    You did such a nice job, I never noticed the plywood. You could have painted it white and you would now have stain and smudge marks all over it. Judicious use of painters masking tape and good personal control of a paint brush could do wonders if it's important.
    My take on such things is that is someone doesn't like your plywood, they don't have to look at it. If it really bothers them, they're welcome to leave at any time.
    Like Jimmy Buffet says in one of his songs. "That's my story and I'm stickin' to it".
  • nicholas bonham-carter nicholas bonham-carter @ 7:19 PM
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    How about staining the plywood?

    That's a very nice kitchen rad you have. There. Where did you find it?--NBC
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 8:59 PM
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    I might paint it later...

    But in hind sight, it seems silly to spend so much cash and be cheap on a piece of plywood. I guess I wasn't thinking of how much I was going to enjoy looking at the hardware ;)
    The Rad in the kitchen is a Myson Decor Column http://www.mysoncomfort.com/Radiators/Decor
    Its the only thing that would fit in the space and meet the heat loss for the temps I wanted to run. I wanted to find an old cast iron column rad but just didn't have the time do the legwork. This one works well and looks nice in the space. I got it through my local supplier (the Granite Group in Groton CT)who helped me alot with the design.
    This post was edited by an admin on January 23, 2014 9:01 PM.
  • vaporvac vaporvac @ 8:18 PM
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    Only for HW?

    I'm assuming those rads are only for HW. :( I couldn't find any steam info on their site. That's exactly what I need in my kitchen to augment the kickspace heater, but for steam.
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 8:31 PM
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    Only HW at Myson

    But there are still some folks making steam rads. I think Burnam does, and these guys have some nice looking stuff.
    http://steamradiators.com/cust-gallery.html
  • archibald tuttle archibald tuttle @ 7:57 AM
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    you couldn't steam that rad?

    In the NFN dept., what exactly makes that not a steam rad.  i thought the issue was generally the other direction, you couldn't get as good water service out of typical 1 pipe steam radiators that had no hyrdronic connection across the top.

    if its got a feed and return tapping, you could just bush one down for an air valve? although i can't see any exit near the top so you might have to tap it or braze or weld on an 1/8" coupling or something depending on th ematerial thickness.  honestly, given that you're probably steaming at a lbs. if that, you could probably get away with tapping something fairly thin.

    i don't know, maybe they wouldn't guarantee the longevity of the material and it is a somewhat more corrosive environment with the exchange of moisture and air all the time and that doesn't look cheap so don't know if you want to be the crash dummy but why not give it a try?
    This post was edited by an admin on January 27, 2014 8:01 AM.
  • Harvey Ramer Harvey Ramer @ 10:04 PM
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    Very nice!

    You should be proud of what you accomplished. Pat yourself on the back when you are enjoying that hydronic cozyness.

    Harvey
  • M Lane M Lane @ 6:50 AM
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    FRP

    You can slide a piece of FRP in over the plywood sometime by rigging some temporary supports.
  • alotlikeearl alotlikeearl @ 2:12 PM
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    Refrigerator?

    Great looking work!  I wonder if you get much heat build-up in the refrigerator area from the nice Myson radiator through the cabinetry panel?
                                    Jerry
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 3:32 PM
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    Good observation Jerry!

    Ill keep an eye on that. It it turns out to be an issue, I have room for probably an inch of insulation back there.
    thanks
    Robert
  • Chris Chris @ 9:51 PM
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    That Looks Like

    A newer Viessmann Vitodens 200 B2HA. Why no LLH Sensor? The other thing is the Spirovent isn't doing anything for your system side. Remove the coin vent at the top of the LLH. Once you unscrew it out, your left with a 1/2" IPS female tap. Use a short 1/2" x 2 Nipple, 1/2 x 1/8 coupling and screw an automatic vent. Velocity slows down inside a low loss header and any air will rise to the top. The auto vent will get it out of there.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    This post was edited by an admin on January 24, 2014 9:56 PM.
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 8:58 PM
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    Thanks for the tip on the vent Chris!

    But there is an LLH sensor. Its in the left side of the LLH, comes through a hole in the board like the power leads for the circulators.

    All the vents I see in the hardware stores say steam on them but I'm assuming they will work fine. Or am I assuming wrong?
  • NYplumber NYplumber @ 7:47 PM
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    Caleffi Vent

    Nice work.

    Install a quality caleffi auto vent. Add a small ball ball valve between the LLH and vent in the event it needs to be serviced/replaced.
    :NYplumber:
  • archibald tuttle archibald tuttle @ 8:32 AM
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    in the NFN department

    seems to me like maybe a good way to vent a system like this is a big tapping on top of the low loss header or a big male thread and boss that takes the top half of a caleffi discal or spirovent.  guess we'd never get the industry to standardize those threads so you could choose, but a header manufacturer could cut a deal and include. for that matter you could put threading for a dirt separator on the bottom of the header. 

    just a thought.  if i'm reading the picture right the primary pump is actually on the boiler return and the header would potentially be about the lowest pressure point with the hottest water entering at the top directly from the boiler and it slows velocity so you get the best of all possible worlds, just add screen or interference elements to aid in separating and you're off to the races.

    that said, on the microbubble side, it's a low loss header, not a plate heater, right, so the spriovent actually sees all the water eventually so a good auto vent at the top of the header for any serious air buildup and a real gas scrubber vent on the boiler feed aren't  a bad combination to service the whole system.
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 9:23 AM
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    Archibald

    Thanks for your comments
    The LLH does have /12 npt tap top and bottom. I will put a autovent on the top as suggested buy others And a valve on the bottom for manual draining/cleaning.
    I put the mag dirt separator before the LLH off the system header to catch any boogers  coming out of the old cast rads. There is also a y-strainer at inlet to the boiler after the boiler circulator, just in case.

    The spirovent is pretty slick. During fill and start-up it made quite a racket purging air. As if it had a personal vendetta with air :) 
  • archibald tuttle archibald tuttle @ 9:40 AM
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    any vent does that new but what about used . . .

    i'm ambivalent between spirovent and caleffi and taco.  they are all designed for long life and corrosion resistance and the like but the caleffi and taco are more oriented towards regular service which i think is dependent on water quality, piping (they tell me even diffusion barrier pex is a relative thing so you still get oxygen in) system metals mix, i.e. your cast iron rads, that kind of stuff.

    but any of them you could put on top of the header. you are effectively doing that with any of their larger air vents that thread in although i still like the idea of a full size vent chamber at the top and a full size sediment trap at the bottom. You'd have to run a see though header to see if how that all worked, but why not. it is actually pretty cool to watch for air bubbles in see through pex.

    but i digress. glad the thing is running.  you'll be fine tuning as long as your breathing if you have the kind of interest in this to do that job in the first place.  if you're not far from your supplier in groton come on out and celebrate your defeat of the polar vortex at sneekers in groton.

    my wife and i go most thursdays for a late dinner 7-10 and get the best of the local music scene thrown in for free. Vince Thompson this week.  Hoolios next week.  only thing i like more than heating tech - if you don't count stuff you take off your hat for. PM me if you are into beer, burgers and music and we'll get together and talk heat in the break.

    brian
  • Robert_H Robert_H @ 10:26 PM
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    Sounds like a plan Brian.

    I live in Norwich. so I'm not far from Sneakers. I've seen the Hoolios, and many of the local bands. Ill PM you.
  • bld999 bld999 @ 8:37 PM
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    FRP Slipped Behind Piping

    I like that kind of plan. Also possible is to get a piece of doorskin ply from a lumberyard; it's about 1/8" thick and you can pick many species of face veneer.
  • Chris Chris @ 10:29 PM
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    You boys are

    From Connecticut. Was born and raised in Westerly RI and worked in Groton for years. Moved to NY 10 years ago..
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • archibald tuttle archibald tuttle @ 8:28 AM
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    come back to connecticut for a nite

    for heaitng system celebration night . . . well, they think it's just a regular thursday at sneekers cafe   www.sneekerscafe.net next week but we can call it a holiday can't we.

    they would have been up and running while you were there as was the knickerbocker in westerly.

    looks like we're gonna knock around heating at he hoolios show  www.locodare.com on thursday nite.  we all came to the party in NY last week so maybe you wanna come back.

    probably not this time of year but look us all up when you are in the old stompin' grounds.
    This post was edited by an admin on January 29, 2014 8:31 AM.
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