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    Tiger loop (15 Posts)

  • Bill Julian Bill Julian @ 6:02 PM
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    Tiger loop

    I installed a Tiger Loop in a W/M oil fired Gold boiler today. I finally got it to purge but let me tell you it wasn't easy getting the oil 50 feet away and 9 feet high to the burner. After starting the burner numerous times to try to draw the oil to the burner I finally filled up the filter with fuel oil and filed a bucket 1/4 with oil and disconnected the feed to the TL and fed a line right into the bucket and the burner fired in about 1 minute. After that I reconnected the TL to the oil tank line and then and only then did it begin to draw oil.

    Anybody?
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 7:45 PM
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    Did you hook up the vac gauges?

    50 ft 9 feet high, I would pull oil to the tl with the hand pump first, that is a good run for sure, was this a suntec pump? 3/8 line with a few loops at the tank and burner?

    Hand pump can be your best friend, if that pump didnt like pulling the oil with the tl imagine without it...

    no oil tech should be without it.. they are around $75 at sid harveys or patriot supply online... http://www.westwoodproducts.com/product_group_t2_t30.htm

    All you have to do is hook up the hand pump to your line, pull it 5 or 6 times and you will have oil, as soon as you see the tl is filling, connect your line back to your burner pump and fire her up, it will fire by the time the prepurge is done and the solenoid kicks... Riellos are notorious for this, they dont like pulling oil too far, high, or past an osv or check valve for that matter.. Once the oil is there, she will run for ever but you will need the pump to get the oil there for systems with osv's, long runs or overhead lines...
    This post was edited by an admin on April 17, 2014 7:50 PM.
  • Bill Julian Bill Julian @ 10:01 PM
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    Hand Pump

    Excellent reply, thanks real helpful.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 11:18 PM
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    Starting Tigerloops:

    If you filled the filter canister, and jumped the FF terminals after the burner started running, you just wait until it sucks it around. DO NOT TRY TO PURGE OIL OUT OF THE OIL BLEED SCREW ON THE OIL PUMP!!!!! You don't do that on a 2 pipe fuel system (I hope), you don't do it with a Tigerloop. Because the Tigerloop IS a two pipe system.
    Some have an obsession with the issue of lifting oil up a few feet out of a tank, to a ceiling and to a burner below. Once the oil gets to the top, it runs down hill and equalizes. Oil weighs less than water. You're not lifting heavier water, just lighter oil. If the oil pump is filled with oil, and you have a vacuum gauge on the filter, the vacuum will go up somewhat, then drop when it fires off. It will never be as high as it was when it sucked up to the ceiling. But you didn't need to do all of what you did.
    Read the instructions with a AV Suntec pump. When connected as a 2 pipe, you DO NOT use the bleed screw. The Tigerloop takes the place of the bleed screw by sending the air back through the return line and into the Tigerloop. Always has, always will.
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 7:40 AM
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    Most of the new controls

    have a purge setting, you are rite after its full the vertical rise has very little to do with it...
  • Kakashi Kakashi @ 8:18 PM
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    Bleed port

    You can only open the bleed port and jump out f and f if you have a Carlin 60200.

    just an IMO
  • Bill Julian Bill Julian @ 10:17 PM
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    Tiger loop

    When I just took someone's advice and bought a hand pump. If I had the pump to begin with I would have saved time in priming the oil to the TL. No I didn't bleed through the bleeder on the Beckett.
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 7:06 AM
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    good call..

    you are going to love that pump, it has more uses than just priming to... It can clear clogged oil lines, if it wont do it with vacuum, then hook it to the other side of the line and it should blow it out, sometimes keeping pressure on it and tapping the line with a wrnech helps, but it works..
    It can also be used to pump detergents, anti frz, ect into systems, its an essential tool in the oil techs arsenal for sure...

    Some other oil tools that help a lot...
    small pocket draft gauge {bacharach, comes in a little leather pouch}
    The Mitco tm2 ignitor tester {you dont have to open the cover, just sit it on the ignitor and it will tell you if its good from outside the burner...}
    and the last one is a tool I made myself, its a clear chemical resistant hose with the connections to install between the jet line and the drawer assembly, so when I go to a service call, I can looses the jetline, move it over install my clear line, throw the ignitor tester on top of the burner, open the site door and hit the reset, now I can see some of the oil situation and the ignition before I even open the burner....

    Anyway I can talk about this stuff all day ,good luck with the new tool...
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:15 AM
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    Jumping:

    There is no burner control that can't be jumped to run. The 602000 is no exception. Unless it is some monster fired at over 20 GPH. You have to take both "F-F" terminals off and replace them with a jumper like you would if you are following the instructions to test the control. start the burner, and as soon as it starts, connect the other side of the F-F terminals. The control thinks it is "seeing" a flame when it is not. Wise techs have a spare universal jet line with 3/16" or 1/4" flare ends to connect the outlet of the pump and led into a puke can. Then, you don't have to worry about a warm kiss from the Dragon. If after a few minutes of running, the puke can isn't filling, you have another problem.
    Heatpro, if you don't have a Mitco "Kwik-Chek" pump tester, it takes the place of your home made line and will test the pump for proper operation too. You just might need to make an adapter to adapt around the obstruction of the solenoid on "Clean-Cut" pumps. Another bright idea by French Vulture Capitalists to steal more money from American manufacturers for higher profits. What do you do when it is 10 degrees out, no heat, and the solenoid on a clean cut pump has failed? Replace the pump. Hopefully, you have one in the truck. If it is a PeterPaul or Honeywell, you just by-pass the valve and go home. That bed was really warm when I climbed out. Not another all night'er to get someone heat. This only happens at 2:00 AM on Christmas morning. That only happens with a long time customer who is notorious for slow pay.
    As far as those Push-Pull pumps, I bought one years ago. I never ever used it. My air compressor did a far better job of clearing sludge from lines and had so many other uses that I stopped counting them. I had one of those CO2 Blow Gun things. I still had cartridges from when I first bought it. You know that they develop 2,000# against a serious obstruction on a small short line? I can connect my air compressor and set the regulator at zero and slowly open the regulator. I've never had it above 30# that I can remember. Once the obstruction goes, the pressure will drop to zero. I crank in the regulator and let that air scrub that line clean, back into the tank or into a puke bucket. Whichever is convenient.
    But, don't be opening the bleed screw on a two pipe pump set up or a Tigerloop. It says so right in the pump instructions and in the Tigerloop instructions. Doesn't anyone check the operation of flame controls by jumping the FF terminals before you turn on the switch to see if it starts? Get it running and pull a FF wire to see if it stops in the allotted time? That's more important than scrubbing the Kibbles & Bits out of the inside.
    The Dragon will just LOVE to give you a warm kiss on your face if you're looking. Especially if Sparky put the service switch on the ceiling or away from arms reach.
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 6:13 PM
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    I have a flow through pump tester

    BUT, for a fast service call just to verify oil flow, my little clear hose is better than trying to point the jetline into a bucket, I never used a compressor to clear a blocked line, I have a couple co2 guns they work great, and I do ac so my nitrogen tank is never far away incase that wont work, lol....

    I could not picture my customers face if I pulled a compressor out of my service body and started running extension cords and air hoses through the house, lol... Plus I am not a carpenter so I don't bring a compressor with me, I own a bunch of them, probably 3 or 4 small pancakes and twin tanks, I have a 15hp tri cyclinder for the duct cleaning, and an ingersoll rand 185 trailer mount diesel for the winterizing, I'm sure that one could blow 6 oil and cement sand through a 1/4" line, but I never used one for oil obstruction, if the pump cant push or pull it, the co2 always does... I also use the co2 gun for clogged condensate lines and to blow out dusty burner bodies....
  • icesailor icesailor @ 12:56 AM
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    Compressed air:

    You have no idea what I am talking about or how I do it.
    You're Nitrogen tank. You have a regulator on it so that you can accurately control the pressure?
    That CO2 bomb you and I have, does yours have a regulator so you can control the outlet pressure? Do you know how many #PSIG it took to clear the obstruction?
    There is a gauge on the compressor which is on the regulator. In fact, there are TWO gauges. One shows the pressure in the tank, the other shows the outlet, regulated pressure. I can have 140# PSIG in the hot dog tank and the regulator set for zero. My compressors have all weighed under 50#. I can plug them into any standard outlet without blowing the breaker. I have quick connect hose connectors on the compressor and hoses. I have a "rig" I made with nipples, a valve and a gauge and a boiler drain on one end with a 1/4" hose adapter that can connect directly into a 3/8" air hose or the air compressor. I have adaptive fittings I made up to connect air to anything I could come up against. Anything I do like gas piping, heat or potable water piping, I can test it immediately with air to test for leaks. If I have to fix a water leak somewhere, it is the fastest way possible to blow the whole system with air and then look for any other leaks. When you get done blowing the water out of the system, there will be absolutely no water running back to interfere with soldering.
    I used to drain around 100 houses per year. over 45 years ago when I started, we had handy pumps to drain water heaters. I used compressors starting around 1995. Sometimes, it tool almost an hour to drain a 50 gallon electric water heater of the white plastic drain O-ring was bad and you couldn't get suction. I can connect my compressor to an outside sill cock with the compressor and a 9' double hose connection, put a hose on the water heater and start draining. I can go upstairs and open some faucets and pump ot a toilet. The water heater is already drained.
    The only time I ever used utility pumps was to pump anti-freeze into a heating system. If I needed to drain a Potable water system, I used air. You have no idea how much water is left in a properly pitched and drained potable water system is.
    If you ever used a light weight, cheap portable air compressor (I never paid more than $200.00 for one) and found all the things you can do with one, you'd be having one in every truck.
    As soon as you replace a boiler or whatever, you can test the whole system in 20 minutes. If you have good hearing, you can hear a "hiss" from across the room. How long does it take to dump air? How long does it take to drain a new system that you filled and then found a leak?
    That CO2 Bomb. I bought one. I never EVER cleared a line with one. Even using 3 tubes. I got out my compressor, made some adapters, and found that it 15# PSIG blow the obstruction and after one minute or so, no more plugged line. Especially after putting two Spin-On's on the line.
    One time I was getting a flat tire. I drove to the supply house and plugged in the compressor and blew up the tire and stitched it. More than once on a job, someone had a flat. I blew up the tire.
    How's your hand nailing with a hammer? Mines excellent with one of my air nailers.
  • heatpro02920 heatpro02920 @ 8:21 AM
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    Space is a commodity

    I understand where a compressor would be handy, but my Nitrogen tanks can do almost everything the compressor can do, they all have adjustable regs that can adjust from 0 to way more than any soldered joint can take...

    I think if you used your co2 cartridge you would be surprised how effective they can be, mine has a gauge and a valve on it, so I charge the unit, then snap the valve open...

    We do take the a compressor with us if we are going to need one, if I am starting a large job with a lot of joints, a radiant job where they are doing floor work, any winterizing work, ect. But for pumping out tanks and systems I use the pony pump, and if its a boiler swap out there normally aren't any leaks, and when i charge the system I listen for the hissing, most of the time if there is a leak you hear the air in the system leaving and can shut it down and only have to drain a little back if any...
    A compressor is definitely a nice tool, but I just dont have the room to lug one around all the time, I use single axle utility trucks so space has to be well thought out, On my old 2009 GMC I had a compressor mounted on the box, but it was a pita to get running when we did need it because we hardly ever used it and it sat out in the weather all the time..., and it still took up box room with all the hoses and battery....

    Ill admit when I was doing a lot of new construction I used to keep one in the job box, but then over night the new construction shifted from base board to fwa and it was no longer needed...
  • icesailor icesailor @ 10:48 AM
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    Compressors:

    In the time it takes you to drag a worn out pony pump into a cellar and start it. I can have the piping drained. With no left over water in the system. My small portable air compressor became the most important power tool I owned. I always had room for it. Do you remember to bring ear protection to protect your hearing from the screaming bearings of your pony pump?
    You must run into these "roll down the road" houses that are pre-plumbed and have all the baseboard installed including the second floor. Where all baseboard is series looped from baseboard to baseboard, under the floor, with only a supply and return going to the second floor. And a zone in the cellar. I have blown out the entire houses (two family, Duplexes) for years. Not a single broken pipe any where.
    I took on an old house (1800's) that had radiators (Monoflow System) installed in the 1950's. Another zone added to the back of the house with copper baseboards, series looped as one zone on two floors. The original plumber gave it up as too much of a PITA and time consuming. He was downsizing. I inherited the customer through another customer. To drain the Series Looped part meant I had to slip a small pan under a cap and open the drain, catching the water and sponging it out into a bigger pan. "F" that, I installed isolation valves and a purge valve on the return, would blow out the whole system including winterizing the whole t bath house in less than two hours. We don't discuss prices. But, say I charged $100.00 per hour and charged him $200.00.
    When I gave up all my customers, his Caretaker called some friend of his that told him that the system had to be Antifreezed. The bill was over $1800.00. to the late widow of the owner who died last December.
    I've blown out houses that were connected in the ground from one house.
    Using air compressors to their fullest advantage is sort of like that kid on TV where the father is trying to make him eat Asparagus. He makes all kinds of faces just looking and imagining how awful it will taste. Once he tries it, he finds out how good it tastes and LOVES it. He probably becomes concerned about the smell of his pee. Old English men's clubs had rules about asparagus and peeing. It was frowned upon.
    For less than $200.00, and weighing 38#, I'll take the usefulness of this one over a Pony Pump with boiler drains sticking out of it to connect hoses on and more weight.
    Can you pump up a flat tire with a pony pump? Can you blow out all the cat dander inside a oil burner? Do you want me to think of more ways that an air compressor is the most useful tool to us when we stop and use our imagination?

    http://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-gallon-oil-less-pancake-compressor-and/p-00916575000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
    P prefer Hot Dog tanks but they don't make the narrow ones that have Nuts anymore.
    This post was edited by an admin on April 22, 2014 11:06 AM.
  • earl burnermann earl burnermann @ 9:31 AM
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    9 feet high and 50 feet long = 14" of vac

    How does the fuel look in the tigerloop canister? Are you getting foam? A one stage-one line system is usually ok up to 6" of vac. A one-stage two pipe can go up to 10" of vac. Over that you usually need a two-stage 2-pipe system for up to 17" on vac and no more. If there isn't any foam in the tigerloop you should be ok. If there is foam, and you are not using a Riello burner, you may need to change over to a Sundstrand B pump.
    If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!
  • icesailor icesailor @ 11:43 AM
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    Lifted:

    A Tigerloop IS a two pipe system and is covered by all the rules of two pipe delivery systems. Take out the by-pass plug in the pump and a Tigerloop will absolutely not work. Although it might somewhat if the oil supply (tank) is above the pump, Leave the by-pass plug in on a one pipe/single suction oil line and as soon as the oil hits the pump, the pump shaft seal will immediately blow.
    A Tigerloop is a pump. Someone doesn't agree with me but if you understand how pumps work, it's a pump.
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