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    Can Anyone Identify this Honeywell Control? (20 Posts)

  • Joseph Joseph @ 8:15 AM
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    Can Anyone Identify this Honeywell Control?

    HI.
    I have a customer who has an old carlin 100crd oil burner. Mounted by the primary control looks to me like a stack relay. it is a Honeywell control, but could not find any markings on it. First of all can someone identify the control. Second, I've never seen such a set up. I would assume if someone "Jimmied" a Limit control in place of a Primary, the Cad cell safety is not doing its job (cad cell is  physically existant-I checked).
    Thanks
    Joe 
  • icesailor icesailor @ 8:30 AM
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    Control:

    WTF?????? And HOLY Crapazoids!!!!!!
    Some yazoo replaced the wrong control. That should have the protectorelay inside the control. That needs a CCT 602000 controller or equivalent on it. Or, the correct control that came with that Burnham boiler There is NO flame safety on that burner. The proper control that came on that boiler isn't cheap. Someone (a cheap homeowner or a really dumb unhandy person) bought that control because it was cheaper. It was probably overheating because that control was (in my experience) notorious for the capillary tube leaking and then overheating the boiler.
    You can either re-wire and move that control to the side of the boiler and install the CCT 602000 control or equivalent on the mounting box on the burner, or buy the proper control.
    If you had to ask that question and you're serious, you might want to call a Professional. NOT the one who put that on there.
    It probably needs a new Honeywell C554 Cad Cell Assembly too. If there are two yellow wires under the box, Ohm them out when the burner is running. They may be OK.

    There's an off chance that there is a red button on the upper right side of the control. That would be the safety re-set. If that is what it is.
    Is there something wrong with it? Without the cover shown, you can't see if the button is on the cover.
    This post was edited by an admin on June 18, 2014 8:39 AM.
  • Joseph Joseph @ 9:47 AM
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    think its an R8182

    Thanks for input Ice. I was also taken a back, but it seems it is a primary control. Got manual of boiler from Burnham. looked through a honeywell catalog... its on p 196 of Environmental andf combustion Controls. and has flame sensor. Just left Carlin a message to speak to their tech support about. but it seems its legit.
    At least our industry always has something new (or old) to keep us on our toes
    Thanks
    Joe
  • icesailor icesailor @ 12:03 PM
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    Carlin 100 CRD's:

    What's the issue with the 100 CRD?
  • bc3510 bc3510 @ 4:57 PM
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    a bit strange

    It's a bit strange to see it mounted where the R8184 would normally live, but that control definitely will accept the flame sensor.

    I always wanted to try the R8182 as single control to do everything, but the tradition around here is the L8124 mounted to the tankless coil with the r8184 mounted at the burner.
    B.C.
    This post was edited by an admin on June 18, 2014 4:58 PM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 7:57 PM
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    Try this one:

    Try this one. It replaces every Honeywell control made, You can mount it anywhere. You can set it up to talk back to you. The only drawback is that it is slower reacting to a call because of all the self tests it does.
    But you can carry just one in the truck and be covered for whatever you run in to.

    https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/68-0000s/68-0281.pdf
    The triple control with the safety is really expensive. Especially when you have to replace the whole control and its only the 602000 part that's bad. In the case of what you show, you just use a longer thermistor lead, long enough to mount the control on the side of the boiler. Then, change the flame sensor to the control of your choice and jump out TT.
    Do you do many Carlin 100 CRD's? Do you have the red plastic electrode adjuster gauge for it? Perfect every time. As the yellow ones for the EZ-1,2,3's.
    Between those two plastic gauges, you can actually set about any set of electrodes made in relation to the nozzle. A lot easier to use than those Beckett Ouiji Boards.
    This post was edited by an admin on June 18, 2014 8:07 PM.
  • bc3510 bc3510 @ 8:16 PM
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    Interesting

    That's quite a sophisticated control. I probably don't want to invest the time to learn it and tinker with it. Could have some benefits if it was setup with outdoor reset.

    My goal on one of the rentals, at the moment, is to leave the L8124 and try to run the temperature down near 155 or so. Also use a .60 or .65 nozzle at 125 psi with the dual filter setup.

    Want to see if I can save 50 gallons next year.

    Also had a fantastic response when I called the oil company wanting fixed price for the next 12 months. Agreed to $3.69. I'm a happy man.
    B.C.
    This post was edited by an admin on June 18, 2014 8:17 PM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 11:19 AM
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    Sophistication:

    "" That's quite a sophisticated control. I probably don't want to invest the time to learn it and tinker with it. Could have some benefits if it was setup with outdoor reset. ""
    That control is so sophisticated that it is found on an overwhelming majority of oil boilers with tank less heaters.
    ODR works really well with boilers that have Tank-Less heaters. It also works really well on houses that were skimped on radiation and the system design temperature is 180 degrees.
    Be careful you don't step over that proverbial ten dollar bill while stretching out for the dime. You did good on the oil price. When the Wall Street Banksters get done frigging with oil futures, that oil company may go toes up with soaring oil prices. SPECULATED Oil prices I might add. Like back a few years ago when they ran the last bunch of oil dealers out of business. The Banksters love that oil and LP Gas spot market. Its like playing the lottery for them. They print the tickets and know where all the winners are. You and I don't.
  • bc3510 bc3510 @ 1:41 PM
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    the question

    The real question is how much oil it can save? I'm going to experiment with boiler temperatures myself and see if I can get away with 140/160 for next winter. If I can, I might try 135/155.

    Once I do that, I really don't need the ODR. The tankless coil has been rendered superflous by an electric hot water heater. But, I do feed it in series.
    B.C.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 3:08 PM
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    Working:

    That might work for you.
    There is NOTHING I haven't tried with my many oil heat systems in houses I have built and owned to try to save money. Whatever you come up with, let us know. Nothing ever helped for me. Other than zoning and insulation improvements, it was spending $10.00 to save a dime or less. Sometimes, I couldn't even find the dime saved.
    But like I said, it might work for you.
    Something to try. Get the stack temperature at the breeching down below 300 degrees. On an analyzer the efficiency shown really goes up. The amount of oil I used went up too. Maybe it would work for you. It didn't for me.
    I tried ODR too. I set the setpoint to a fine level. The temperature dropped and I had to raise the setpoint because the house was cold. Then, I burned the same amount of oil.

    There's a lot to it.
  • bc3510 bc3510 @ 5:51 PM
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    stack

    I could only dream about a 300F. stack. If I could get it down to 400F., I'd be really pleased. I don't have the skills or the right equipment to play with it, unfortunately.

    I do want to take your advice and use two spin on filters in series and go with a .65 and 125 psi, however.

    I have 10 years of annual fuel consumption for that house and they are all within 6% of each other. So, the database is good.
    B.C.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 8:36 PM
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    That is

    the original control that came on those boilers/burners. R8182 H, J was cold start, R80-40R would be Sids #'s
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 8:38 PM
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    also

    throw that CRD in the trash, and go with a Beckett AFG on that. Out of Wayne, Carlin, and ABC Sunray, Beckett performed the best
  • Steamhead Steamhead @ 1:06 AM
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    I still use a similar boiler

    which came with a Sunray FC burner. The problem with that burner was that before I got into the combustion end of the business, techs would try to set it up like a Beckett. You can't do it that way. Sunray burners have their own setup technique, which is more like Carlin's. Once they're set up they run very well.

    I actually had a chance to meet the gentleman who designed my Sunray: Dr. Bola Kamath. This man is a combustion genius. I think of him whenever I work on one of his burners.

    I've tried the OEM Carlin burner in my boiler, as well as the Beckett AFG and am currently running a Beckett NX. Proper setup is key for any of these units to run well. If a burner doesn't run properly in my boiler I change it- I'm too busy working on other people's boilers to have much time to mess with mine!

    Now as to that control- yes, it was original to these boilers. It was designed to make packaged boilers easier to assemble at the factory, by eliminating separate controls and their associated wiring. But I suppose it got so expensive that using separate controls and wiring was cheaper- later versions of these boilers had separate controls.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"

    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists

    Oil & Gas Burner Service

    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    This post was edited by an admin on June 20, 2014 1:07 AM.
  • icesailor icesailor @ 6:03 PM
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    Jiggin' Around with A Carlin:

    If you work or worked on 100 CRD's and didn't have a red plastic head jig, you were dancing in the dark with a stranger. Then, they came out with the yellow head jig for the EZ-1's. If you don't have both, you are at the dance the whole evening with the same stranger. You don't know what you've got.
    Strangely, I discovered one day that there are really only a few measurements on oil burner electrode locations on every burner I came across that is considered Modern. Both those jigs will cover those measurements. 1/8", 3/16" apart" Covered. Same with ahead of the nozzle. Above the nozzle? Covered.
    The only time I ever had problems with 100 CRD's was when the distributor got some nasty oil and I had a load of Hago 60 degree SS nozzles that must have had extra fine strainers. They plugged up quickly. Before Spin-On's. And you'd be surprised about all the other Carlin burners that the red jig works on. Like the higher CRD models like 701's and 801's. They work on Riello's too.
    Screw the rulers.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 12:38 PM
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    Bantam

    I agree Frank, that was, and still is a good burner, but many knew nothing about them, and screwed them up royally.  When Burnham first bought out American Standard boiler division, Wayne replace the Arcoflames. Next was ABC/Sunray, then Carlin 100 CRD, which had a different blast tube than the norm, and ran like sh$$, then Beckett took over from there. We had a lot of issues trying to get the CRD's to run on those boilers. Bad combo. How are things with you Frank? Hope all is well
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 6:25 PM
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    jiggin

    Those plastic gauges did nothing on that combo Ice. The 99 FRD work a wee bit better, but was still a noisy piece of sh$$ on that boiler. If only EZ was available back in those days. I had many 100, 101, and up Carlins. They worked just OK on some units. I would take the old US Carlin over the. Early flame retention. Their version of the Shell Head, nope
  • icesailor icesailor @ 9:58 PM
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    Boxes:

    You have to think outside the box to figure out the uses for the plastic jigs. Its the spacing's of the electrodes where you don't need to be trying to stick a ruler inside the head to measure the wires. And foolproof. Unlike those other gauges for your favorite burner.
    What setting do I use? What head is in this? Is this the one with a F-6 head and they dropped the firing? Did they change the head and the plate? What do I do now in the hour I planned?
    Well, like I always said, the solution for a bad running and temperamental *&^%@## is a brand new Carlin. Solved the problem every time. And I can honestly say that I never once changed a "Z" dimension after I checked it as a last resort. Even after the couple I had that the end cone fell off.
    I may never see another dragon for the rest of my life.
  • billtwocase billtwocase @ 5:01 PM
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    Retired Ice

    If so, best wishes
  • Buster Buster @ 9:18 AM
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    If needed

    to be replaced this is what we use so you are not bound to one control that does everything! Also keeps cost down for future parts. Has good features also!

    http://www.beckettcorp.com/protect/manuals/61855_CombinationControlProductSheet.pdf
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