Heating Help

That makes sense

@ July 10, 2012 5:05 PM in Radiant cooling

Fortunately the mains and all of the tubing are in the slab until they daylight near the mech. room so I can add pipe insulation were necessary.
Regarding the thunder storm I won't say never because occasionally we do get aggressive weather but I cant remember the last time we had a sudden storm thunder or otherwise. We don't get weather extremes  we get earth quakes.

Dan foss

@ July 10, 2012 1:33 PM in Radiant cooling

Makes a wireless control that acts as a thermostat and a dew point control using a infrared sensor that picks up the floor temp. It would be perfect as there is no reasonable way to run a wire into the space for a thermostat of a floor sensor. One problem they wont sell it in the US due to its radio frequency. The infrared incorporated in the stat is really neat though. I love innovative controls like that. I wonder if they would sell it in Canada. I have friend there.

Here is the link to the product although you may have seen it already.
http://heating.danfoss.com/xxTypex/180157_MNU17463662_SIT54.html

we are fairly dry

@ July 10, 2012 12:26 PM in Radiant cooling

which will help with the latent load. However the room is literally all glass. The load in reality is huge.I don't expect to be able to actually meet the true building load. They open the upper windows and the doors around the perimeter every day and even with that the space gets hot in comparison to outside. My goal is to improve the level of comfort by absorbing  the heat radiation off the occupants and making it feel cooler than the air temp actually is.

In regards to a load caulc. I don't even know how to figure for that much solar gain. I use the standard manual J sheets and they ask which way the window faces so I guess I could come close by treating it like a glass square of the same cubic area and same square feet so that I could set up the windows facing directions.

BTU per foot

@ July 10, 2012 10:13 AM in Radiant cooling

Can I use the same ratios based on the difference between the slab temp and air temp. For instance a 60 deg room and 85 deg slab = 50 BTU per foot so does a 50 deg slab in a 75 deg room = 50 BTu per foot?

And thanks for the help.

Radiant cooling

@ July 9, 2012 10:29 PM in Radiant cooling

Its a sun room and it gets hot. Not a surprise. However it was intended to be an entertaining area so the heat is bothersome to the client. They want me to look into radiant cooling.  The room is 40 foot circle with polished concrete with radiant in the slab. The tube is 12" oc. The whole room is window that arch into the center to make a 14' height in the middle that starts at about 9' on the perimeter. They have a set of four large ceiling fans and operable windows at the top. The humidity stays pretty low in this area for instance today with an outside temp of 73 the room was getting a bit uncomfortable the humidity at the time in the room was at 38% as the day warmed to the peak of 86 deg the room rose t0 92 deg with a humidity of 30%. my hope is with the combined low humidity and ceiling fans moving air across the floor I can get some capacity out of the floor to at least help with the heat. I would think even if the air was still warm but the floor was at 65 deg it would be more comfortable. In the end I am looking for opinions I have never designed a radiant cooling system and have yet to find any decent design guides.

I totaly agree with mark

@ July 9, 2012 10:07 PM in free estimates

However the last part of his comment is what keeps me from doing it. I actually know of no Mechanical contractors in my area that charge for the estimate. And like you pointed out a percentage of the estimates I go to are looking for the cheapest bid. That said I really feel that really looking into the customers needs and giving a thorough estimate combined with good people skills can turn a lowest bid customer into someone who cares a bit about quality. It seems like people go into it thinking its just a furnace or a boiler and it works or it doesn't. With some people you cant change that mind set but I really love talking a customer through a systems functions and pros and cons of different brands and install techniques. I guess I feel like its just an unfortunate part of the job. I will say the ones that really make me mad are the people who call the office and demand a price over the phone. 

I am looking forward to seeing pricing for this

@ May 17, 2012 10:52 PM in Lochinvar listens....

I sent a info request to my vendor but have not seen the reply yet. the composite jacket is a bit concerning. However I have not seen the HTP version fail yet due to the jacket. not that I want to be the low price leader but it is nice to be able to compete with the lower end smaller boilers. I definitely like working with Lochinvar.  We signed up to be their repair and service contractor in the north bay and it has been a good experience. support is defiantly a huge part of the product. 

ADP

@ May 15, 2012 9:48 PM in a/c coil .. does anyone carry flat??

makes a lot of matched coils. we are installing a five ton in the down-flow position tomorrow that is 20" high and 21" wide. I prefer the Trane coils but the ADP have yet to fail me and are always a bit smaller. 

Brand spacific

@ May 14, 2012 9:49 AM in Refregeration art

each brand has different names for their tube sizes. They do have conversion charts. I will have more info this afternoon. Look at the pic though. He placed the condenser directly below the art on its stand. The phrase is the evaporator and the base for the piece holds the phrase and the condenser.  Also if I have cap tube so no TXV.

Thanks for the intrest

@ May 13, 2012 11:37 PM in Refregeration art

I did a bit of research though limited. IT is a high temp Tecumseh condenser. With my ideal 20 deg evaporator it has a capacity of 2,340 BTU. Its mothers day so I have been unable to  measure but I am guessing I have a total of 35 to 50 feet of 1/4 inch tube in four each row. I would love to maintain 20 deg evaporator tube temp @ 80 deg ambient. The gallery is in Zurich were the summer is not horribly hot. The gallery is in a concrete building that does not get warmer than 72 deg. However this is according to the owner and I would rather design for 80deg and be a bit over capacity. 

Refregeration art

@ May 12, 2012 9:29 PM in Refregeration art

The artist made the first one in the seventies. It was destroyed years ago. This one was commissioned by the owner of an art gallery in Zurich. the intention is to frost the letters. I have a 134A condenser with cap tubing going to each line of letters. The tube size is JB ind. #2 @ 105". The problem is anything over 72 deg ambient it wont freeze. I think I have enough capacity but really how can you size something like this. This morning with a 66 deg. ambient temp I had an evaporator temperature of 20 deg and it worked great. this afternoon no ice just condensate. The condenser is a 1/3 hp. Any thoughts. I may just buy a larger condenser on Monday.  

Do it

@ May 1, 2012 8:48 AM in powering Nest stat w separate transformer?

We install the Nests all the time. Just put in a little ice cube relay but give the nest a common. They work well with radiant. I was worried about this when we first started using them but I had a long talk with their tech people and the short story is the Nest builds performance based logic. So If you have high mass radiant it learns how to run it with long cycle times.

They are really a great stat. I just hope the quality is their time will tell.

Ask my wife

@ April 26, 2012 11:02 PM in servicemagic

She still hears from their sales people every now and then. We signed up with them for a two month period. Nothing came of it other than a few grand in their pockets. Very aggressive sales people too.

In short stay away.

good load caulc. program

@ January 30, 2012 5:03 PM in good load caulc. program

Same question diferant tact. I think if I had a software program I could change perameters quickley and get answers about things like recovery rate or at least a good idea.

How do figure Air conditioning recovery rate

@ January 30, 2012 3:23 PM in How do figure Air conditioning recovery rate

I am sure it has a lot to do with thermal mass. I am trying to evaluate a system that is at capacity if it is 90 deg. outside and 75 inside. The question is if it is at capacity at these temps then what is the rate of recovery at 80 inside and 85 outside. lets say I run the numbers at those temps and come up with an extra 5% in capacity how fast will this bring the space temp down to 75 deg.

I still use the manual J work sheets. I like doing them by hand but if there is a software program that would make this info available I would consider buying it.

As a contractor

@ January 16, 2012 9:20 PM in Am I being unreasonable

I figure things like this are part of the cost of learning. I had to make some changes to a system I installed when we first opened our doors early last year. I have learned a lot since then mostly from the guys on this site and Dan's books. The job is well out of warranty so I was under no obligation to do anything for free or for a discount. In this case I just charged the customer the cost of the parts. The idea being I want them to call me again and I want them to tell their friends about me when their heat fails. With the economy what it is a minor compromise on the installing contractors part seems to be a small expense if it might have saved him the contract. If he had offered to repipe the header for free if you signed a contract to do the other work would he still have the contract? It is interesting to see how the poor economy has weeded out a lot of poor contractors yet surprising to see poor service continue from some knowing it will ruin their reputation. A good reputation is gold.

I have never seen it.

@ January 12, 2012 8:06 AM in tankless gas water heater

I don't know about there but even if they did the inspector would not go along with it. The make us size the gas line for 100% duty.  That means all loads at high fire. Because of the cost of running the gas line and the stainless flues and the low flow rate I usually talk the customer into the Vertex from A.O. smith. It usually costs less and it is more efficient than a standard tank-less water heater.

Google calander

@ January 9, 2012 8:00 PM in My wife is either going to cry

works. However it is all on Googles server. Not saved on our hard drive. We cant back it up and that makes us a bit nervous. we have been running it for a week though. I showed her the post about outlook and her response was a I hate outlook however she might have to get over it if it backs up and is the best answer.

second floor

@ January 6, 2012 11:32 PM in My wife is either going to cry

It would defiantly give her some satisfaction. I hate coming home and seeing her so upset like that. The business is my dream but I could not do it without her.

I got shot with a BB gun by a roomate.

@ January 6, 2012 11:25 PM in Amish

It was many years ago but It hurt. So I guess It would motivate me as well. 

guess I am going to have to read it too.

@ January 6, 2012 11:21 PM in Best stories ever!

With Hot Rod throwing out a teaser like that.

My wife is either going to cry

@ January 4, 2012 11:11 PM in My wife is either going to cry

or throw the computer out the window. Does any one know of a good schedgualing program that can work independent of a bookkeeping program. We have been trying to use the current program with smart phones but it has lots of glitches and has caused many missed appointment's. We are a small company that runs three service trucks and up two three install crew a day.