Heating Help

insulation under concrete

@ April 2, 2008 1:30 PM in Concrete Contractors & Perimeter Insulation

If the contractor is familiar with pouring on a vapor barrier, he can pour on insulation. Its the same... some bring up that it may compress. If you go to the manufacture of your product you can get the compression data and ratings for under concrete. I got my specs from Dow Chemical who makes the blueboard variety of XPS. I also know Owens Corning makes the pink stuff but I am unaware of their current ratings. If they are worried about the hairline NON-STRUCTURAL but unsightly fractures that sometimes occure due to uneven curing of the concrete and excess moisture off the top. I have used a 1"-2" layer of sand on top of the foam with very good results, and has become my preferred method of installation. I also design for a 6" slab thickness to account for the extra mass. Fear of the unknown is sometimes hard to deal with. Hopefully they are open to education. Hope this helps. The 2 jobs I did without full insulation are the only jobs I look back on as not my best work. Keep trying in the long run the future homeowners will appreciate your work after the concrete guy is long gone.

pilot light going out

@ March 27, 2008 8:59 AM in combustion air

How big is the house that the equipment is installed in? I had a similar problem on a rheem water heater due to the flue not being piped correctly. I was getting a backdraft condition blowing out the pilot. Had to extend the flue up and put on a pilot with a shield. Works great now, took me a little thinking to fiqure out what was happening on the roof as I had good draft most of the time.

It is possible I am wrong on this

@ March 20, 2008 10:41 AM in Sand on top of tubing

I am only going by what the concrete professionals in my area have told me, and it is very possible that they are wrong. They did say near 100% but how near I do not know. I guess that is subject to interpretation. I will have to do more research on this. Thank you for the alert. These were residential projects so it is possible they counted it as good enough compaction. Small town and definatly not roads. ON EDIT: I did some research online, and I believe the statement near 100% would be accounting that during the pour of the concrete the weight and moisture of the concrete compacts the sand at that time to an acceptable level. So yes its not but it is after the pour is completed. We are only talking approx. 2" of sand here not 8"-12" just to be clear for any who are considering this installation method.

Sand under the concrete

@ March 20, 2008 9:22 AM in Sand on top of tubing

I have used sand underneath concrete and above the insulation to give the moisture in the concrete somewhere to go during the cure process, so that it all does not evaporate off the top. They use sand as apposed to ABC because sand does not have to be compacted. Just dumping sand onto the insulation it is near 100% compaction. Ever try compacting ABC on top of 2" of foam insulation.I always insist that the wire mesh and tubing go on top of the sand and lifted just a bit so that it is in the lower portion of the concrete. I have seen snow melt jobs with tubing in the sand layer and then pavers on top. Seemed to work fine but the job was less then 5 years old. I personally did not do the job just know of it.

uponor/wirsbo control

@ March 18, 2008 9:46 AM in Controls question

Check out uponor/wirsbo, they have a control similar to the tekmar. From what I understand it can be programed to do anything you want it to do. I have heard good things about it once it is set up and running. Internet access from the office capable, for diagnostics and troublshooting.

solar direct

@ March 14, 2008 10:22 PM in opinions on hydronic solar panels

any experience with the trendsetter or helio-pac by solar direct. And yes I never do a job without a design. As I was once told. If you dont do the math you are only experimenting with your customers money. Thanks for the lead on thermomax looks good.

solar panels

@ March 14, 2008 2:49 PM in opinions on hydronic solar panels

thanks for the info thus far the more info I can get from people who are currently installing and using the better decision I will be able to make keep them coming

tube depth in concrete and insulation

@ March 14, 2008 12:17 PM in How far under the concrete can I go?

The thicker the concrete the more mass you have to heat, the closer to the surface the better, Ideally 2 to 3 inches below finished floor.IMO. I have installed tubing as deep as 7-8 inches placing wire mesh on top of the abc and tying the tube down to it with a concrete overpour. The tube was at the bottom of the slab with no insulation, except the perimeter 2 ft in. In reality with no insulation the heat is going to migrate down anyways. If you place the tube in the abc layer there will be, in a sense, a thermal break in conductive heat transfer,I would stay in the bottom of the concrete pad minimum. This was for a residential home. It responds slow so I had to use outdoor reset and 10 degree delta T. It works fine MOST of the time. If weather changes fast it cant keep up very well with the changes. Dow Chemical makes a hi density blue board for commercial applications and have a psi rating for underslab use. Comes in 2x8 and 4x8 sheets I highly recommend its use at least around the perimeter of the building structure stemwall and 4-6 feet in underslab to control heat loss to the outside of the building. GoodLuck sometimes the end user or other subs can be difficult to work with when it comes to putting tube and insulation in or under concrete, yet can offer no verifiable problems with doing so when done correctly, except when the insulation is placed between the abc and the concrete, it creates a vapor barrier and the moisture doesnt obsorb into the ground. Creates the potential for hairline fractures in the top of the concrete. A layer of sand on top works great or putting the insulation below the compacted abc base also works well but increases your thermal mass. ON EDIT; That is an incredible article, goes right with what I have been seeing in the field. Having a copy of that article will help immensly. THANK YOU SIGGY

hydronic solar panels

@ March 14, 2008 8:47 AM in opinions on hydronic solar panels

Whats your favorite, and why. I have heard danfoss has a good line but pricey, looking for an alternative any ideas. Thank you.

check valve

@ March 7, 2008 12:40 AM in hot water jackhammer

sometimes if the flow is low, or just right the check valves can cause some funny sounds in the pipes. especially the swinging type.

lochinvar

@ March 5, 2008 9:49 AM in Munchkin vrs Lockinvar?

Lochinvar has my vote, contractors in my area had alot of problems with the munchkin so we looked to the knight when it first came out and have had really good success with them. I personally have several running with very happy customers. A plus in my book is the smart control. No vision wiring to do. I understand munchkin has made alot of changes recently so now that I have switched I dont know to much about the current lineup.

that was quick

@ March 3, 2008 2:42 PM in Recognize these numbers anyone

I contacted modine as that was our first thought. They said not theirs, With this info I will call back and see if they can check again with those years. On edit: Records back then at modine arn't great i guess they dont have anything on it. Thanks bert I think your right on with your thinking at least I know about what size it is now for replacement.

Recognize these numbers anyone

@ March 3, 2008 1:29 PM in Recognize these numbers anyone

Model V1130 PWR 14 OPT-00 Its a Hydronic vertical mount unit heater in a warehouse. No name plate Part number on the coil is 3M or H34304-2.

increase the velocity

@ February 26, 2008 9:49 AM in LOCHINVAR PROBLEMS

I would guess the boiler is running at 20%-40% most of the time. You can try putting a reducer on the exhaust side to increase velocity.

Personal Responsibility

@ February 26, 2008 9:26 AM in CO Deaths & Lawsuit

I was just on a job yesterday on a boiler call, the boiler was so plugged up with soot it couldnt fire anymore. Contractor was blaming the boiler and wanted it yanked as this is the second time it had sooted up. Upon inspection the flue was run horizontally for over 30 ft and only turned up to go through the roof approx 20 ft. Yet it was the boilers fault. The contractor bypassed the high limits and safety devices on the boiler so that it would stay lit. We didnt get the call until that didnt work anymore. Thank goodness the boiler was in an issolated mechanical room from the main house and nobody got hurt but things could have been much worse.

it can be done but why

@ February 23, 2008 5:09 PM in Pex emissivity

Uponor/Wirsbo has a software program and design for such an install. I have installed this way and it can work. The design is more complicated, water temps are higher,flooring choices are limited,and the insulation below must be good and all holes and spaces must be sealed to eleminated all draft. The savings in install material is not worth the liability and time to make it work. When there are much better alternatives. Everything has to be just right, and heating loads low. If using a cast Iron or non condensing boiler a btu is a btu. But with savings that are available with mod con boilers achieving 94+ afue in low temp applications the long term savings and design flexiblity outway most suspended tube installations.

Hams

@ May 9, 2007 11:10 AM in Ham Radio

Every saturday as far back as I can remember my dad would be in his shack with the beeping all morning long. Call sign k7wzx. My brother and mom have both got theirs I bought the radio studied, and then life hit me and have never gotten back to it. Someday. Great for distance communications and emergencies. Just no business calls.

Computers

@ May 7, 2007 8:08 PM in New Computer ?? Dell vs HP ??

You might check out the local computer guys and ask them to build you a computer on a asus or intel motherboard to your specs. very reliable,local service and support and still customed to your needs, may even save you a buck or two. If you are in the market for a notebook check out powernotebooks.com My salesman was donald. they have alot of stuff to choose from and if you call and talk to a salesman they can set you up with exactly what you need. I love my new laptop and have had no problems with it. 3 year warranties included with next day air service if they cant fix it over the phone with you. American support and built computers. I owned a dell inspiron 8200 laptop and hated it nothing but problems and then once out of warranty same problem and their answer was you should have bought the extended warranty. My family has purchased 3 dells and 2 friends set up their offices with dell servers and optiplex stations. The one had his server crash on him twice and lost a ton of info and the other has a networking nightmare. Not saying its dells fault but they seem to be very quirky at best and my experience with tech support was reformat the hard drive or did you try and update the drivers yet. essentially followed a list of questions and then said I guess we will have to have you send it in. Sorry for the rant just really not happy with dell and my 1500 dollar paper weight they sold as a laptop.

rings

@ May 1, 2007 12:39 PM in Rings for Pex or Not?

I have found uponors system to be very reliable. I personally use the composite core (multicore) and love the product. The tool is bulky and heavy but works nicely and I have never had a leak. If your fittings are in the wall most pex fittings when properly installed are considered reliable. Any crimp fitting because of its design will be more prone to problems, but is faster and less exspensive. They have come a long way since their initial appearance. Pex rings and Apr in my opinion the most reliable and still fairly easy to install. In situations where I have to repair or change a line in the slab I use the apr fittings from either rahau or uponor whichever is available at the time and wrap with 10 mil tape. (Should) be a lifetime fix. I would not intentionally ever put a fitting underslab no matter how good they claim it to be its not as good as a solid piece of pipe and you are taking a calculated risk. How much risk do you want to take, just look at the failure rate of the fittings you may be using, even one failure in a slab can be a major headache.

joist track install tools

@ March 23, 2007 5:58 PM in Fastening Wirsbo plates

I just finished a job of joist track using a tool called the quick drive. using 3/4 inch self tapping metal screws course thread. Worked very well each clip holds enough for about 2.5 plates and can be stored in a pouch or pockets. Fine thread worked also but I like a little overkill when things are getting buried behind drywall. Holds extreamly well I tried removing some and had to remove the screws to avoid tearing the aluminum.