Joined on March 1, 2007
Last Post on July 23, 2014
@ April 5, 2008 7:51 AM in Tankless water heater plus Tank?I prefer the heat-flo tank for this application as it has four tappings. Cold in, hot out, pump suction to the Rinnai and hot into the tank. As well, it has better spacing of the tapings. You don't need an indirect. Pay attention to your pump sizing. Feed the cold first to the tank to prevent pressure drop. Give a big enough spread (20f)to your aquastat that the system can satisfy. You can mount the Rinnai (I represent them so I'm a tad biased) above the tank for efficient use of space.
@ March 29, 2008 1:52 PM in DHW sizing questionlet the homeowners and GC's problem become your problem, because that is the way these things tend to go. Regardless of whatever equipment gets used I would suggest that you layout the options, both from an equipment standpoint and a necessary location standpoint and insist on a meeting with the owners and GC to discuss the good, better and best options and come up with a firm agreement on what, where, when and who pays! Not having that meeting increases your exposure. Again, Good luck on this!
@ March 29, 2008 9:19 AM in DHW sizing questionThen you will need four. The bigger issue for the customer is the monthly operating cost. Remember they cannot write off their monthly utility bill but they can finance the equipment cost in the mortgage. Assuming two people are using this fixture per day with all the holes running how long are they going to actually have that high flow tap open. With the on-demand they can run it all day long, so they gain the comfort of the big cost/flow fixture. When the system is off, and I don't care how much you like your shower, at some point you have to get out of it and go pay for it, the system will draw no energy. As well, it will modulate across its firing range throughout the day giving excellent operational efficiency. Remember, they picked the shower. Now they have to feed it and allow you to provide what is necessary to confidently do so. I would suggest that you start looking for other locations for the system which will provide you with adequate space/performance. I know that is easy to throw out there to you but again, you have to be able to give them the system they need even if they "Won't give you any more room". They put you in the position of having to perform without adequate facitilites to do so. They will not remember that you didn't have the space when they run out of hw. It will not be their fault;) I was on a job recently where in a very large house they put the Rinnais up in the attic (there are attics and then there are attics and this one I could live in), built a small insulated enclosure around them, vented with short vents thru the roof, cut a register in the second floor ceiling to provide gravity heat to the enclosure and downfed the individual vent stacks. Pretty cool. Good luck on this. Let us know which way you go!
@ March 24, 2008 7:16 AM in Power Flame high pitched whine - how to stop??worked on a power burner that was incredibly noisy. I took a piece of pipe large enough to connect to the air intake, put a 1 ft piece of pipe on the inlet and it quieted right down. Don't know if this will help but, I was surprised how effective it was.
@ March 24, 2008 7:13 AM in Here's the best way to bend 12\" pipe =)I worked at Todd's shipyard in Seattle. I used to enjoy watching the old timers on the bending beds do their thing. It was fascinating. They worked on a large perforated deck with assorted rose-buds and come-alongs and would stroke their chins and put a little heat here and there along with a little cold rag and just walk the pipe into some fantastic shapes...and they would fit. It was great to see what they did, but what was perhaps best was the way they worked. Slow, cool, deliberative. They had it, knew it and didn't flaunt it
@ March 20, 2008 4:00 PM in Diakin vs. steamSo I guess they are for real this time. They have left the American market the way the Baltimore Colts became the indy Colts...twice. I'm assuming that you are talking about their large variable speed multi-ton units that can handle many interior evaporators. They are piped in kind of a primary/secondary arrangement. I represent Fujitsu, a competing product to Daikin. We are not offering that type system in the US currently but I have replaced them in specs with our 2 and 3 ton multi evaportator units quite effectively from a]both performance and cost. Should you choose go with the the mini-split style Fujitsu you will not be in the "scorched air" situation. These are all inverter drives and give variable speed operation in heating and cooling mode and are really excellent from a performance and technology standpoint. In your area they can be used as a primary source of heat. In New England, where I live, they are a supplemental heating source and give excellent performance in the dehu/cooling and shoulder season heating market. Depending upon the lay-out, which you refer to, they can be an excellent option for you. As well, there are new interior evaporators for the multis, which can be completely concealed. You have many options there. Check out www.fujitsugeneral.com/products/multi Then again, perhaps the guys will take a road trip to SC There are
@ March 12, 2008 12:48 PM in voiding warrantiessome manuf specifically exclude their products being used as a construction heater. As previously noted, construction debris, and especially sheet rock, can severely affect warm air equipment. You can, and I have, see condensing sections that are absolutely packed with dust. I once got a call from a homeowner who got his hands on a condensing furnace I was representing at the time. He installed it in his basement with no duct other than a supply plenum. He did strap the plenum to the floor joists with perfed metal tape. He let the condensate run out onto the new concrete floor. Come spring he call and said he needed a new furnace as the one he bought in the fall was no good. I went up to look at it and the bottom four inches of the furnace were missing. The condesate consumed the bottom of the unit. What really blew me away though was that his nice new 4" slab was approximately 2" thick in about a 12' circle around the unit. The aggregate that remained looked like it has been run in a rock polisher for a couple months. That was my fault too. I kid you not!
@ March 12, 2008 6:54 AM in For those who don't like Windows Vista (o/t from Steamhead)gave up. It seemed the key I was most hitting was "do you want to send an error report". I always decline. They know it. I bought a Mac laptop and it has been as solid as a rock. By the time I open it the available network has been found. I run Office on it and there are no problems. Among the many things that challenge me are "intuitive" computers. I've also been looking at the iphone. Much of what I do is training. I've not made the move yet but this summer they are bringing out a new model which will work on "exchange" for email. As well the screen graphics are good enough that I can train on the phones screen. My treo is ok but the screen is so small that it is hard to do anything with a schematic view. The iphone will answer the bill imho. I think a contractor could load up his favorite schematics as I will and be able to use it with customers. Anyone doing it?
@ March 9, 2008 7:33 PM in tankless WHsyour customers heat bills against degree days, heat loss calcs?
@ March 9, 2008 10:22 AM in Hot waterPlumber, a good guy installed a new Rinnai and got hot water in some faucets, cold in other HW faucetts. With side by side lavs, one would get hot water and one wouldn't. It was magic. Weird magic, but magic none the less. At this point, just prior to jumping out of that third story bathroom window I went in and turned the shower valve handle and suddenly all the problems were resolved. It was an older Delta with the two "center mount" dials. One was for setting temp and one was for on/off. The unit was cross piped in the wall and had given these types of problems for a long time. Depended upon where the homeowner left the temp dial. Beyond that, turn off all the CWS under all sinks and work it back one by one.
@ February 29, 2008 5:39 PM in Blue Flame Buderus Install (Ray L)I've not seen the boiler up close but when anyone tries to compare the blue ray technology to todays technology I simply look beck to the auto industry. Until you had the proper electronics to control it you could not have really good fuel injection. With the proper electronics precision is possible. I have a couple old cars, one with a weber carb and one with mechanical fuel injection. Fiddle with those for a while and you get an appreciaton for EFI. That Blue Ray was almost 30 yrs ago. The technology has to have advanced. Again, nice work!
@ February 29, 2008 5:22 PM in Truck caught firewith a contractor a couple months ago and he ran out to his van to "burn out" with his propane torch a gas burner which had some spider webs up in them. He placed the torch back into the truck, brought the burner back in, we reassembled the unit, fired it up, thanked the homeowner and walked out to his truck. Maybe 30 mins, because I'm a gas bag. I was just getting into my car when he opended the side door on his van. A cloud of black soot/smoke came billowing out. No flames. Turns out that his off, but hot torch tip came into contact with a black plastic 5 gal bucket and kinda smoldered and turned into fine, fine soot. The whole bucket was gone. I swear I have never seen such a mess. Every surface in the truck and its contents were covered in a couple MM of soot. It was perfectly uniform in its dispersion. The seats, windshield, headliner, stock, racks, lunch, everything! I think if it had been my truck I would have thrown a match into it and hoped it caught. Boy, I felt bad for him. How do you clean something like that out?
@ February 29, 2008 5:06 PM in ground source heat pump heat exchanger plugging with sediment.correct? If so either the system has trapped a mass of particulate which is not carrying through on to your flush point, but is perfectly happy to go to your HX in suspension. Put a prefilter in front of the HX and see what happens. Plate HX are kind of a pain to clean in my experience. Otherwise, If the system is clean and there is no debris in the lines, you have to be "galling or eroding" some material in the piping which is moving to the HX. What is the material?
@ February 28, 2008 6:16 AM in Rinnai all Furnace recallThis has been all over the press in New England. As well, any consumers registered units are being contacted. You have to remember that only about +/-10% of purchases are registered with all manuf. Rinnai has polled distributors for information on who the contractors purchasing goods are. Contractors are being contacted where the info is available and trying to contact the homeowners that way also. Do you all keep model and serial numbers on purchased and installed equipment? Do you register warranties for your customers?
@ February 23, 2008 6:36 AM in Rinnai all Furnace recallto remove the front cover of all direct vent wall furnace Energysaver models 431 & 556 (FA-III and WTA models & colors)units installed from 2000 on (Approx 52,000). Remove the Burner Cover Plate and discard it and its gasket. The instructions are detailed and the affected area is fully exposed. The kit provided by Rinnai includes a new burner cover plate, gasket (which is the item in question), new sparker, sparker retainer, sparker cover boot, new screws and a couple other associated parts. It is 30-40 min work. Rinnai is paying the labor and providing the kit. Rinnai is paying labor for this. If an affected unit shows deterioration of the heat exchanger...This could happen if the gasket has failed, which could allow the flame to "focus" on that area and deform or crack the top left corner area of the cut-out, which the new cover plate attaches to. I expect that a very, very small percentage of units will require this. Certainly check it out carefully. Rinnai Energysaver Models 551, 1001, 201, 263, 1004 are not affected. No Rinnai water heaters are affected. One helpful hint on the install which I will offer. The gas line is attached to a cast plate and is secured to the burner area. This piece holds the four orifices and has a "D" shaped gasket which is also provided in the kit. It is not necessary to remove this orifice holding piece from the gas line. What I do is remove the small limit which sits in front of the gas line secured with one screw to the lower chassis. Remove the two screws holding the cast part and rotate it and the gas line out of the way. Do the other work and when you reassemble, whether you have done this my way or dismounted the part, you have to take your time and make sure the locator pin next to the orifices drops into place. This can be a little "fiddly", but it just has to be lined up properly and it will drop right in. If you do remove the orifice holder from the gas line be aware that there is an O-ring on the gas line. The O-ring will likely stay in place, but...I know the first time I took one apart the O-ring dropped out and at that time I didn't know there was an o-ring, so I had a heck of a time until one of the guys slapped me along side the head and showed me where the O-ring had fallen. Other than that, this is simple. It is, in fact, so simple that we don't want the homeowner doing it! Please check the air filter for cleanliness and if it is dirty, tell the owner, for their fuel economy and comfort the importance of cleaning this filter. A detailed, exploded parts drawing is at www.ductlessheating.com. Select the model 431 or 556 and click on the blue window for the parts breakdown. Post questons and I'll try to help as I can.
@ February 15, 2008 6:45 PM in Powervent removal possiblities?You are having combustion air issues which will continue if you put a chimney in, unless you provide adequate combustion air to the furnace. You should not have soot inside with a PV. Your PV has an adjustable post purge timer to continue operating after the burner shuts off to ensure flue gases are totally expelled to the outside of the home. Power venters require maintenance. 100% of the oil and air mixture going thru the burner goes thru the power venter. It is a hostile environment and the pv must be cleaned when the furnace is cleaned. Annual maintenance is good for your fuel bill. The wheel must be cleaned if it gets dirty. Lack of combusiton air guarantees that the heating appliance, and the power venter will soot up. Once the blower wheel is sooted up it will, if not cleaned get out of round, make noise and the air/fuel mixture will deteriorate and unfortuantely, you will feel, justifiably, as you now do.
@ February 15, 2008 6:28 PM in cross use of water heatertype of system design is...is cheaper, not better, IMHO. Value engineering is good. Cheap engineering isn't...again, IMHO
@ February 11, 2008 5:51 PM in Ice on chimney = need new boiler?Is this oil or gas fired? Is the chimney an end wall chimney? How tall is it? What construction is the chimney and the chimney liner? In fact, is it lined at all? What size is the liner? How much rise from the boilers breeching to the point where it connects to the chimney? How much rise and run on that vent connector? What size is that vent connector? What is the input rating on the boiler? Have you had these type isses in the past? Has anything else changed to affect draft issues with the flue? Is the chimney clear all the way to the top? Has an internal portion of it collapsed? I ask all these questions to get an idea as to whether or not you need a new chimney liner. If your boiler is not leaking then you are more than likely getting condensation of the flue gases which are freezing at the top of the flue. And, yes, you can get a lot of moisture. Approx 1 gal of water vapor per gal of oil or therm of nat. gas burned if the flue gases are cooled all the way to ambient temp. Keep in mind also that while you may not have had this type of icing before that vent degradation typically happens over a long period of time. Do you have a CO detector in the house? If it is a gas apppliance and there are venting problems, I'd strongly recommend that you get one while you figure things out. I'd get one anyway.
@ February 7, 2008 6:53 AM in power venteruse a power venter I would recommend that you use the SS2 from Tjernlund. Just because you think you will use this infrequently is no reason to "short" design or system components. At some point you may choose to sell the house and it will operate better, more economically and require less maintanence if done properly at the start. One of the biggest problems with PV's is that they are frequently starved for combustion air, which leads to sooting. You could very well find the same situation with your wood burner.
@ January 29, 2008 11:59 AM in The greatest moment of my lifeare ahead of you. You can't imagine the changes that are coming. Of course, you will be to tired to notice but it will sink in. Dave is right, btw! Good for you all! Congrats!!
@ January 24, 2008 9:39 AM in Pro's & Con's of tankless water heatersYou can access installation, service/troubleshooting, parts, manuals etc in the "literature" section. On Rinnaisolutions, you are correct there is a great deal of info to absorb. Check out the calculators in the upper heading. Also when in the troubleshooting heading click on the blue words and it will take you to the things you need to check. When you see the four blue windows click on any one of them and it will give you an exploded diagram of the unit. click on the part and it will giveyou the part number, and if it is an electrical component it will give you troubleshooting information
@ January 24, 2008 7:55 AM in Pro's & Con's of tankless water heatersI've found the on-demand water heater to be ideal for laundry applications. BTW, I represent Rinnai, just so you know. As well, I'm a licensed plumber. For reference go to www.rinnaisolutions.com, register and go to the tools section for sizing info. A consumer I would send to www.foreverhotwater.com. The coin op laundry has a number of machines typically of varying poundage. Calculate the number of machines to cover the load and where they are to be positioned. As we all know, the closer to the point of use the better. One of the advantages of these systems vs tanks is the load factor in laundromats. I always ask the owner how often they are running at capacity. This is important. The answer typically is Sat/Sun mornings. With that info I will ask why would you want to store hot water for 168hrs/wk when you are at demand capacity for +/-10 hrs per week. One of the great advantages of the on-demand is that when only one washer is running, you fire only the gas to satisfy that load. As load increases/decreases, the units modulate up/down to satisfy that load and no more. When no one is running a machine you have no gas consumption. That seems pretty efficient to me. Again, look at the use pattern. I sized a system that called for 8 units. That would have been two banks of 4. In discussion with the contractor and the owner I recommended two banks of 3. With the agreement that the units would be installed to accomodate the 7th and 8th units should we have a capacity issue. So, room was left for those units, the piping was designed for simple addition of the additional equipment and the gas line was sized to accomodate them. They have not been necessary in that particular installation, but I was able to "value-engineer" a system to meet the demand satisfactorily. The MSA control package for multiple units, rotates the firing sequence unifies the operation of multiple units and balances the flow within a tenth of a gal. to each unit. Pretty cool! Also, keep in mind, that if on the rare Sat morning everyone looks up and down the line and they all drop their quarters at the same time that the Rinnai system will respond. They are designed to produce only the correct temp water and will activate the flow control to reduce flow to guarantee temp. I would invite you to spend a Sat morning or 10 and tell me how often all the machines draw at the same time. I tell the owner that even in that circumstance, it simply slows down the fill rate for that short period. One of the things most laundromat owners really appreciate is the direct venting (no combustion air issues) and room savings these can create. Sq footage in these places is very dear and high wall space is typically available but floor space and storage space is at a premium. I had one laundromat that created a storage area and a small office area when they went to the Rinnai system. That man loved the system and his new found sq ft. What is necessary for these to work well? In my opinion, that is a clear thinking, open minded, professional mechanic who knows that a pipe wrench is not a hammer (although I frequently used one as such;) and doesn't leap off of tall buildings in a single bound. Having taken my lumps in the mech contracting business I will say that in any new equipment/system, "slow and steady" wins the race. Read, study and then try it out. If we can help...give us a shout.