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Jack

Jack

Joined on March 1, 2007

Last Post on August 30, 2014

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Do you have a

@ October 30, 2012 11:03 PM in Rinnai E110C DHW temperature too hot

tempering valve on the unit. The E75 and 110 C models require the field installation of a tempering valve .

Well, your neighbors in NH

@ October 27, 2012 10:14 AM in Bang for the buck

In Brrrrmont you might want to look at the BrrRinnai E110C;)

And while you are at it

@ October 27, 2012 10:10 AM in daikin or mitsubishi

I'd suggest you look at FujitsuGeneral.com for their training schedule n your area. They are the three top brands. Learn all you can from as many as you can. Then decide!

Well, your neighbors in NH

@ October 26, 2012 10:52 AM in Use of Rinnai tankless water heater in NH

have a few tens of thousand Rinnai tankless water heaters. You simply use the interior direct vent model. The recommendation of the 180-199 kbtu units is correct. At a 70*, 50-120F, you will get 4.3 to 4.7gpm for the .82 EF units and you get about 4.8-5.4 rpm with the .95 EF units. It is not a direct correlation but water heaters are tested to an Energy Factor rather than an Efficiency %. Frankly, for my modest hot water needs I went with the .82 and have been happy with it. Get an experienced contractor. There are many in your area.

My disclaimer for this info is that I was Rinnai's manuf Representative for 21 years in the New England States, so my bias is noted...but well deserved;)

25kbtu at design condition?

@ October 17, 2012 7:49 PM in Rinnai Advice DHW Combi

Is this a baseboard system? I have to say that with that small a heat load I would look at a couple Rinnai Energysavers DV's. One unit could easily handle the heat load but depending upon floor plan two may be best. A Rinnai tankless with that and, well, Bob's your Uncle! Much less dough. This is worth a look for sure. It's the way I heat my house.

The first hour rating of the indirect at 180 &200f is the hot water capacity with those output temps from the boiler. You will never see 200 out of the Rinnai. I'd use the 30 minimum if you go indirect. Is this ng or lp

Guys

@ October 16, 2012 3:24 PM in Power vent condensation problems

Do you think an oversized furnace short-cycling like crazy is a part of the problem? I would look down on the HX right away. It will not last with the current condition. As proposed, Double wall vent connector is always a good idea. Your double wall pipe is hitting the exhaust gases with whatever temps are outside pushing the stack temps below dew-point temps. Disconnect the cold air intake side for a while, making sure your set-up is correct and I'll bet things will improve. As noted, this is an attempt to create a kinda/sorta direct vent system with a single wall penetration. I'm thinking you are going to have short life from this furnace HX.

You understand the combi question perfectly

@ October 16, 2012 3:10 PM in Rinnai Advice DHW Combi

And your outputs are correct for the 75/110. I will say that I think you need to run a flow check on your kitchen sink, labs, shower, etc. With my Rinnai tankless set at 120f with a 2.5gpm shower head I am running 2.1 gal of hot to .4 cold. The Rinnai boilers come with the 3"low loss header and the unit, in heat mode is doing nothing all day every day but maintaining a 36* temp rise across the unit, and short cycling "shouldn't" be a problem, but that said, what is your heat load?

If you are uncomfortable with the DHW output and want more your best bet would be the Q85s with an indirect. Rinnai has an optional 3-way valve that mounts to the unit and allow you to use the internal boilers variable speed pump to drive the indirect. You will like that system a whole bunch. If you do not want to use the optional valve you can run the indirect conventionally off the secondary side of the LLH, but you will need more pumps/controls for that.

I have to acknowledge my bias as I represented Rinnai for a long time and still consult with them.

On a pedestal

@ October 3, 2012 11:52 PM in pedestal sinks

You have to be dead nuts on your rough-in...or else. The left had threads is identified by the "cut" in the lands of the nut. Kinda hard to describe. On the flats where your open end wrench goes the surface has a slot cut in the circumference.

Dribble....

@ September 22, 2012 10:42 AM in Post Purge

You have discovered one of the primary reasons to have post purge. At shut down the pump stops the oil flow. The remaining oil in the burner is heated, expands and is forced out, peeing or dribbling into the chamber. No good! Put your post purge back on. Every system has a personality. You want a post purge sufficient to clear odors and reduce the heat enough to eliminate the "dribble".

NFPA 31 lacks

@ September 19, 2012 11:01 AM in Buderus chimney condensation problems

support for re-lining. We were never able to get the committee to include venting standards for re-lining. The excellent work on venting that Rick Krajewski and John Strasser did at Brookhaven in the early 90's got stuffed into Appendix E, never to see the light of day as it would raise system costs.

I will offer a conversation I had with Rich years ago about his work. What he said was that regardless of length, height, inside/outside, etc the thing that had the most consistent positive affect on flue operation was insulating the vent connector. Products are available for this. 4" pellet vent is L-vent and the DS and DVL products from Selkirk and Duravent, respectively, are excellent as well.

I spoke with a sweep from LI some time back who has been re-lining using App E for years and said the sizings are right on.

Mark's suggestion

@ September 18, 2012 10:43 AM in Using solar to heat my pool

Of a well fit pool cover is critical. As the NH nights cool you could loose all and more you may have gained with your solar system.

Pretty thin

@ September 17, 2012 10:40 AM in Luxaire warranties

On the reason for rejection of warranty claim. This is generally a process. How did this go down, both the compressor and the rejection of coverage?

I have had good luck

@ September 12, 2012 8:44 AM in Venting

with the Dura-Vent, Dura-liner product. I have it in my house currently. There was an old insert that consumed vast quantities of wood and produced no heat. I replaced that with a VC Encore and was easily able to adapt the existing Dura-liner install to the free standing stove. Excellent product in my experience. I represented Dura-vent back in the 80's when they introduced this product.

Good points, Bob

@ September 12, 2012 8:38 AM in Venting

As always, there's more than one way to skin the cat. The base support on the B-vent T can be an issue and in fact when I did my sisters place I opened the wall up a bit. Then I supported the tee with a section of Unistrut. I pop rivet the joints as they are lowered being careful not to penetrate the inner liner.

I have also done the flex liners and tried to insulate them. Honestly, I can't think of anything related to chimneys that is a bigger pain. The insulation hangs up and tears and I think you end up with more voids. This is especially so if the chimney is tight. I end up looking like Looney Tunes on the roof;) I'm very good at that!

I haven't done one of these in some time and perhaps someone has figured out a better way of insulating, but I'd rather have the B-vent. It was just cleaner for me. Where oil is and is likely to stay I don't see it as a viable alternative in todays world. Hate to say that, but...!

I would

@ September 7, 2012 10:02 AM in Rinnai RU98i only works with cover off

unplug the unit from 120 v. Remove th cover and see if all the exposed wires are securely fastened. Pay particular attention to the yellow wire to the flame rod. As well make sure the insulating boot is secure on the sparker. If that isn't in place it may be arcing to the cover. This is your installers job.

Silicone is a band-aid

@ September 7, 2012 9:58 AM in tankless gaskets

in this case. given that you were able to do this for so long without the silidope I'd keep doing what you had always done before. A good clean bearing surface is the key and then securing in the proper sequence.

The smooth wall

@ September 7, 2012 9:46 AM in Venting

is only one of the benefits of the B-vent liner. Probably the greatest benefit is the double wall construction which will protect the flue gas temp and eliminate or greatly reduce condensation. What happens in a flue is that there is a period on start-up where virtually every appliance will condense. Called the "wet-time" successful vent design with a properly sized flue will allow the vent to warm up and draw more quickly. Exterior chimneys are the worst and a single wall liner can be problematic due to the lower temps it sees. Also, and I do not have a current copy of the sizing guide, but do you really need 6" on a 30' chimney. Tim...Help;)

It might be a good idea

@ September 6, 2012 6:46 PM in Venting

to reline with B-vent. There are many single wall lined exterior chimneys that still condense like crazy. The double wall construction of the B-vent would better insulate the flue gas temps, and perhaps allow using one size smaller pipe, as you do not have the 20% derating of the corrugated pipe. Refer to your vent tables to confirm. If you go this way do not use Hart & Cooley Metalvent. They have a locking ring that increases the OD of the pipe and can become undone on the way down the flue. I'd suggest Selkirk or Dura-Vent

Do you have

@ September 5, 2012 9:45 AM in Hi-eff GFA + sep. Tankless DHW vs. NG mod/con RFH + DHW combi?

24" from the other building? That is the clearance requirement for the heaters. For the water heater, I don't think the E model would be a problem, but it is worth consideration if you are right on top of the neighbors. As to commenting on the 110C list, please understand that the man who gave you this list is a licensed contractor in CA and he has to live with that system. I don't see anything superfluous in the list. He is on site and I am not.

TWH

@ September 5, 2012 9:34 AM in Hi-eff GFA + sep. Tankless DHW vs. NG mod/con RFH + DHW combi?

by Rinnai are not approved for "closed loop" heating systems. They cannot pass ASME requirements and IMHO, never worked well in the field. As well, for the small number of sales they created an inordinate number of problems. Why compromise an otherwise excellent product reputation to get some systems out on the fringes.

Rinnai does allow the water heater in "open loop" systems. Those are typically a hydro-air system in an apt building. I'm not really a fan of open loop, preferring to keep my water streams separate, but I have to say they have worked well in that application. Those that I had experience with were all small loads.

The MC-91-2US controller you are referring to is the "Commercial Temp" unit. All the water heaters can reach 140*. To go over that you must purchase the Comm controller. On the 180kbtu systems you can get to 165*, the 199kbtu...185.

I go out on other sites and hear of people all the time who want to use TWH, for radiant jobs especially. Some manuf say it ok. My experience says it isn't a good idea and for years I got to see the catastrophes in a six state area. Tankless are designed to see variable flow and high delta T's. They are excellent at their primary task. For a pro to do these TWH closed loop systems you are really putting yourself in the crosshairs, imho. It's funny how customers forget how adamant they were for a particular system and if you agree to do it, well, you end up owning the consequences. ODR has no place on any TWH I am aware of. There is no place to interface that type control. If you need a boiler, there are plenty excellent choices out there;)

I always caution

@ September 4, 2012 11:51 AM in Hi-eff GFA + sep. Tankless DHW vs. NG mod/con RFH + DHW combi?

folks from buying to many Energysavers. Keep in mind, these units want to do two things. Number one, meet your comfort demands and number two, do so at the lowest possible input and fan speed. With the constant modulating operation of the burner/fan they project the heat much better than the single stage on/off type units you are used to. From your wallets stand point these are the ultimate in zone control. I would buy two placing one 17 or 22 in the LR, either next to the door, between the LR/DR or, better yet under the window looking straight down the hallway. The other would go in the family room. Under windows is an ideal location for these as that is typically a harder area to decorate and you need only a 9" clearance from the vent termination to doors or windows. You can rough-in a gas line for where ever you think you might have a cold spot, but you can define those spots and treat them both with Airshares and additional Energysavers, but do not buy excess capacity. You will be surprised how evenly they will heat.

If you put a unit in a bedroom, do not use the 11. Use the 08. Where these make any noise is on start-up. You get pre-purge, spark, gas solenoids kick in and burner ignition. It isn't loud, but it is annoying if it short cycles. Min. btu on the 11 is 5500. At 82% that is in the area of 4400 net to the space which is a boatload for a bedroom and the t-stat has to turn the unit off. The 08 is down fired 08 to 3000 btu min or about 2400 btu to extend the run time in smaller spaces.

SWEI

@ September 4, 2012 11:27 AM in Hi-eff GFA + sep. Tankless DHW vs. NG mod/con RFH + DHW combi?

I wrote a lengthy response last night which must have been edited. Pretty sure I saw the "successful post". I'll try again later.
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