Heating Help

pipe wrap tape

@ May 23, 2013 10:46 AM in pex or copper in concrete?

would be fine, insulation would give you a hollow space in the concrete.

Most plumbing and HVAC suppliers have this tape.

TurboMax

@ May 21, 2013 9:13 AM in Reverse Indirect

Rathe and Associates in L.I. NY is one rep I know of. They do training on the tank in their classroom with a working display, and a lighted cutaway

www.ratheassociates.com

Ergomax

@ May 21, 2013 9:03 AM in Reverse Indirect

I think are sold via EFM dealers. Go to that site and use the dealer locater.

wrong picture??

@ May 20, 2013 5:34 PM in Congrats,Alan Mercurio

that fella looks way too young to be a grandfather! Congrats Alan, keep talking :)

hr

Ergomax

@ May 20, 2013 3:10 PM in Reverse Indirect

has added two additional taps, which makes it easier to use as a buffer tank.

The DHW output will drop off if you run lower tank temperatures, if that is important. Their performance use to be rated at 200F boiler side temperature!

I suspect, seeing as they have a belly full of copper that they are $$ ?

I've used them for drainback tanks also with so much copper they perform well. I've also buffered wood boilers with them to provide DHW.

I'm not sure it needs to be a stainless tank if it is for boiler water in the tank and DHW in the coppoer.

I know of two all stainless versions, one out of Canada with a spiral HX inside.

Another is an import that a solar drainback manufacturer in Kansas imports.

I'll dig around for that info if you need all stainless for some reason?

http://www.ergomax.com/New-Tanks.htm

wonder what the fracking

@ May 18, 2013 9:43 PM in Longest lasting indirects

chemicals will do to HW tanks when it starts showing up in our aquifers :0

Oh they already are? Just because cattle won't drink it doesn't mean it's bad for human consumption, and bathing.

97 tin 3% copper

@ May 17, 2013 10:47 PM in 97-3--hey hot rod

possibly?

I know the higher the tin then higher the melt point and a smaller or tighter working temperature range. I know some solar guys use this on drainback systems, probably overkill, but.. I suppose a drainback evac tube array could get hot enough to melt some soft solders?

I also see the guys that do copper sheetmetal work on gutters and building trim use a 95/5 or 97/3, maybe a bit stronger joint. If it is a roll it is still considered soft solder.

Harris products www.harrisproductsgroup.com has been my go to site for info on soft and hard solder products. I like their Blockade phosphrus tin silicone sticks for my copper art projects and t-drill joints.

There are all sorts of SilPhos sticks with different alloy %s also. Some are better for joints that experience vibration, some fill wide gaps better, low melt points, all sorts of options.

With some of the wiiide tolerance import copper fittings these days the Bridgit brand is a nice solder with a wide fluid range for filling gaps.

My favorite supplier, Star Mechanical also keeps Lennox 50/50 on the shelf, a nice low melt point solder. Not sure what the lead has been replaced with?

operating temperature

@ May 17, 2013 8:45 AM in Longest lasting indirects

seems to make a big difference, also. Both from the expansion stress on the metal, welds, and glass lining , but also the mineral precipitation.

oh my aching back, in my experience

@ May 16, 2013 10:22 PM in Longest lasting indirects

the stone lined tanks last the longest, regardless of the brand. Not the most powerful coils, as far as recovery speed. Maybe that too extends their life by not having rapid temperature changes?

But the layer of stone in the tank seems to really work to keep them running 20 years or more.

yes

@ May 14, 2013 4:40 PM in Cadet Combi boiler

any of the PSC circs can be controlled with the solar (differential) controllers, like the I-solar. While not a true PWM logic it does ramp from 30- 100%

Larger circs can accept PWM signal now, but you need to buy that interface box from the pump manufacturer. Most of the solar controllers have an optional PWM interface box, but you still need the pump manufacturers interface box also, it gets complicated and expensive. we have a few large solar systems running Magnas with PWM.

I think we are real close to seeing PWM pumps with those two additional control leads. I have some samples but they are Euro 230V. Getting that circ here requires some order commitment, voltage change and the ever time and $$ consuming UL approval for the junction box :)

It sounds simplier than it is to bring in all the cool stuff from Europe. We are the only market, and a small one, that requires 120V motors on their circs.

I think Europump has upped the ante and we will see even more efficient pumps then the current ECMs, at least in the European market. Eventually is may make it's way over here.

which union circ do you want?

@ May 14, 2013 4:22 PM in Cadet Combi boiler

Generally the union pumps are OEM. But as you know most all of the solar pump stations have union pumps as do many of the radiant mixing stations, from various manufacturers.

Really any pump module with Euro origins will more often than not have union pumps. .

So from most suppliers you have access to Wilo and Grundfos. Wilo Star 16 & 21, Grundfos 15-58, Alphas, 15-100 high head drainback circs, larger Star 30 and 32. That should cover most radiant and solar pump applications.

We are starting to receive the Grundfos Solar Series (yellow label) on the new Solar Pump Stations. I think those are 15-62, don't quote me.

If there is a pump station or mixing station with a union pump, out there, then the replacement pump is also available.

Generally if a pump fails, just the power head can be replaced not the entire volute. Wilo has just two allen head bolts holding the motor into the volute body, a very quick change out.

Do the Vitodens use union pumps under the hood. I thought some of them has PWM Grundfos circs? probably in the Euro 230V style, hense the older style Vitodens requiring the step up transformer box.

union pumps

@ May 13, 2013 5:46 PM in Cadet Combi boiler

and fittings? Let me know what you have in mind, we have union style pumps in our hydronic and solar modules and plenty of fitting and valve assemblies to "mate" them. An ECM circ may be a good option for your idea, low flow and low current draw.

I installed this Cadet with a 132 flowsetter so I can see the actual flow at different pump speeds on the 15-58. I may just squeeze an Alpha in and get sufficient flow on this 120, spec shows it to be close, sometimes actual flow differs from the data on paper :)

Once you get use to union style circs they are nice to install and manage. A 10" slip joint pliers is all you need to install them, a 10- 15 second task.

And when you embrace union bodies a whole new selection of circ sizes and types become available, like ECM solar pumps, PWM drainback, GEO, and hydronic pumps, and sizes that are not available as flanged.

Cadet Combi boiler

@ May 13, 2013 1:19 PM in Cadet Combi boiler

I like the concept of a simple dual purpose boiler DHW producer. The Cadet uses a plate HX with a dedicated pump to provide instantanous DHW. The pump provides great flow and excellent DHW production, no pressure drop that you might expect with a 3 way diverting valve and a single pump.

Being empty nesters our DHW needs are low. With both the dishwasher and wash machine being equipped with timers we can space out the DHW loads, so only 1 draw at a time.

For a simple one temperature system, like mine this is an ideal boiler. A basic control does offer the ODR. It has a great sound deadening jacket.

The ThermoCon tanks buffers the 3 small loads, the low load being two small bathroom floors. The buffer is only warmed during the heating season, today and most of the summer solar or the DHW module provides DHW.

I do have a solar pre-heat tank so the Cadet DHW module does always see tempered water.

I'm also trying a SolarinCal valve from Caleffi. This assembly of 3 thermostatic valves selects between the boiler DHW or solar. If the solar tank is 110 or warmer the DHW module is bypassed. The valve also tempers the DHW should either the DHW module or solar tank exceed 113F.

a small electric

@ May 13, 2013 10:04 AM in towel warmer as sole source of heat?

is what I have in one bath. it's nice to run on low for summer warming of towels. I have a Myson with a line voltage stat.

two handle?

@ May 13, 2013 9:57 AM in Need opinions on kitchen faucet brands

I like the Chicago or T&S Brass commercial faucets with smooth ceramic cartridges. I have them in my shop, kitchen and on a lav sinks as a wall mount.

Wolverine Brass had a nice solid brass basket strainer that I liked a lot.

Consider

@ May 10, 2013 11:57 AM in zone valve question

Pumps instead of valves. If that 2" zone is 35- 40 gpm that may be an expensive zone valve. Probably not a spring return type thus more complicated wiring. See what every zone flow rate is. I agree Belimo is a good source for high flow zoning valves

some spiffy solar flashings

@ May 9, 2013 6:59 PM in some spiffy solar flashings

these are available in red silicone 437°F continuous temperature. So you can run the copper or SolarFlex thru them then insulate down onto it.

Some models have a small wire grommet built in. They also have the "zipper" type for retro-fits, aluminum base for shingles, and lead style for clay tile roofs.

many factors

@ May 7, 2013 10:49 PM in Copper pipe pitting

more and more I'm hearing about the chemicals used in water treatment being a cause of pin holes, here is a good article about recirc pitting.

http://plumbingengineer.com/aug_12/designers.php


Also hot water is much more aggressive then cold. Dwight at Rhomar Water told me recently hot water, boiler water temperature, can be 100 fold more aggressive then cold water.
We were talking about DI or DM water to fill boilers and he cautioned that you really need to add some buffer chemicals, or a buffered glycol. Or the pure water will look to replace everything you scrubbed out of it, with the metals from your system, copper, steel, even stainless!

If the fill water has low ph to begin with, chemicals were added at the treatment plant, heat it to 160- 180, and now you may have a perfect storm brewing.

Reaming the copper is always important on a heating system as the water is circulating much more so then copper water piping. Keeping the velocities under 4 fps is also important for wear, and noise of course.

Uponor

@ May 3, 2013 7:34 PM in T-Stat

the old A3030101 if it is still around. Nice for garages 38-98F freeze protection 38-39F I think you can set a high and low limit also.


www.uponorpro.com/~/media/Files/Technical%20Documents/Specifications%20and%20Submittals/NRadiant%20Heating/Zoning%20Controls/A303010x_Thermostat_03%2005%202009.aspx?sc_lang=en

Mark Eatherton to lead RPA

@ May 2, 2013 12:53 PM in Mark Eatherton to lead RPA

as the Executive Director, atta boy ME. I'm looking forward to Mark getting the BTUs flowing again :)

got a drawing of that piping?

@ May 2, 2013 9:31 AM in Old building DHW recirc system

I'm not sure a spring check on the suction of a recirc is a good idea? It could induce cavatation. The recirc needs to go thru the tank to supply a constant temperature as the loop temperature drops.

The 15-35 should be about right, 3- 4 gpm at 7-8 ft head.

With no faucets flowing, if you can do that, maybe a 5-10° drop from supp[y to return.

It's a hydronic loop, really, you need to assure the most distant faucet has adequate temperature. If the return loop is un-insulated it will loss temperature from the last fixture to the tank. Check the temperature at the last fixture. State code may indicate the required temperature, I think 110- 120° is common.

What temperature is the tank set for? I'm surprised there is not a thermostatic valve required for a building like that.

clever idea

@ May 1, 2013 4:12 PM in Honeywell Mixing Valve

is that a low lead valve that California requires now a days?