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Joined on August 27, 2007

Last Post on August 28, 2014

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Pin them down on the infiltration

@ October 16, 2007 8:57 AM in radiant floor heat for commercial garage

mainly how often the doors are open, or left open. The only shops I have had complaints about are repair shops that leave the overhead doors open or cracked a bit. Usually they neglect to add an exhaust removal system and the open doors move the fumes out?! If they do have a air removal system you may need a pre-heated make up air system. Just be sure to ask these questions. Better now than later. Add the data to your assumption report on the load calc and have the customer sign that. On large shops I do 5/8 or 3/4 and run 500 or 600 foot loops. makes it easier to get to a one manifold location on a large building. Fifteen inch on center is often do-able also. If it is a 6" slab I would highly recommend the re-bar and tube is elevated on chairs. 6" is way to deep for radiant tube, IMO. Layout any equipment that will need to bolt down, cranes, lifts, etc. PAP tube is easier to locate after an install. FostaPex is an excellent durable tube that provides the heavy wall pex with the al jacket for ease of installation and locating. hot rod

Check with their insurance carrier first

@ October 16, 2007 8:46 AM in Wood Boilers

some homwowner policies flat out refuse to insure solid fuel burners inside. Others add a wood burner rider. And yet still some allow them without question???, Tarm, are some of the gasification wood burners I have used. If they are required to have UL or ASME choices become more limited. Royall has both listings but is not a cleaner burning gasification booler. Also consider a pellet boiler. These are much more operator friendly. Screen prospective wood burning customers carefully. It's a fuel that takes a lot of care and maintenance. And price the job carefully. Remember combustion air, rather expensive all fuel venting may be required. a back up heat source is a good idea. And make sure your liability policy covers wood burning appliance installation :) hot rod

a couple choices

@ October 13, 2007 9:15 AM in small circulator 12 volt

Laing, Marsh, Elsid. has an 809 good for about 5gpm at 4' has a smaller D-5 and a few other choices. Here are the curves for the El sid. I have not found any 12V quite as powerful as the oo7, maybe one of these is enough? hot rod

I'll still sell a Royall

@ October 11, 2007 8:42 AM in Small outdoor boilers

I prefer the gasification units for efficiency, features and emissions. With the small fire box it is sometimes hard to get a full day burn with the small Royall. It is a nicely built unit. Heavy steel, nice door, great track record. Central boiler had a nice pellet/ corn burner boiler at the FarmFest last week. They build their own feeder and control module in the US. It actually uses a small Lp tank for the ignition system. Fire tube boiler design. Central claims they sold 12,500 OWF and boilers last year! hot rod

The old Chiles Power Systems

@ October 10, 2007 10:01 PM in Heat loss calc for 1\" copper heat exchanger

Mike and Dan Chiles founders of Heatway use to build solar powered radiant systems, back in the solar/ Radiant Roll days. They constructed well insulated plywood tanks with EPDM liners in the basements and copper coils. A few years back I had to replace a leaking copper coil in one of these 1980 vintage systems. I wanted to use pex for many reasons, mostly weight and cost. One of the Watts Radiant engineers calced about 3 times as much pex as copper to get 'er done. That seems to jive with what you have calculated. I tried the pex, wasn't impressed. The new owner scraped the whole system, as the solar had been removed years earlier after a hail storm, and had me install a boiler. Great systems for their time. this one had a solar and a pond loop geo desuper heater feeding the tank and radiant with DHW preheat coils. A few hundred pounds of copper when i finally dismantled the system :) hot rod

An AquaTherm

@ October 10, 2007 6:19 PM in Small outdoor boilers

brand can be purchased unsheltered. This allows you to build your own enclosure. AquaTherms are pressurized OWF's. The Royall from is a small size that could fit in a small enclosure. They sell it as a pressurized or non pressurized vessel. I had one at my home for a bit. Fairly small firebox, however. One of the few that has an ASME listing (pressurized version) and UL if your insurance company needs that. hot rod

what about the loads?

@ October 10, 2007 6:00 PM in commercial mod/con

if you have varying loads that Aerco Modulex model modulates from 45,000 to 1 million a 23 to 1 turndown!. Quite a turn down for a large boiler. I saw those boilers used in an apartment building in Italy, under another name. It had quite a few seasons under it's belt and the property manager was impressed with it's performance and fuel use. hot rod

Check out

@ October 10, 2007 5:49 PM in Hardwood floor over concrete

the hardwood that offers. It is solid wood, 3/8" thickness that has a locking detail. Consider this or engineered hardwood over the Roth panels. hot rod

Seems a shame

@ October 10, 2007 5:43 PM in Heat loss calc for 1\" copper heat exchanger

to use all that 1" for a simple HX. If I were to do one again I would use two 1" headers with a bunch of 1/2" soft copper hoops. I would T-drill them into the 1" and silver solder that connection. Here is a coil I built for an 800 gallon concrete in-ground solar tank. I used my Curvo to limit the fittings. I belive I used three 20 foot lengths. i tried to copy the Viessmann horitiz-cell indirect with a low and wide HX. The DHW and radiant coils will be at the top of the tank. I'll be back on this solar job Fri. I inheritied it from a solar guy that bailed. the tank was in the ground and 8 panels in the garage. He also had the slab tubed. This will be my first go at an underground solar tank. We did use 4" of foam inside the tank with an EPDM liner. hot rod

I used a 60 foot coil of 1\"

@ October 10, 2007 2:41 PM in Heat loss calc for 1\" copper heat exchanger

in a 500 gallon concrete tank i had in my shop a few years back. in all honesty the output from that wood boiler isn't a static number. i suspect that amount of coil would move the heat from that boiler just fine. It's fairly easy to solder some fins on the coil. i used some short scraps of copper cut in half with my porta band to build my own fins. Ugly, but it did add square footage at a low cost. hot rod

Will the OWF

@ October 10, 2007 8:18 AM in Outdoor Wood Furnace

heat your domestic hot water also? The simple way is to just control the pump with an additional wall thermostat. i suspect you have some sort of back up heat system? Some installers use a line voltage 120V wall stat to control the circulator. i prefer a pump relay and a 24V wall stat (more choices). You will need some wiring between the building and the OWF. I like to install an extra condiut or two in the trench for options. Power to the OWF and some switch-able wires. I also like to add an inexpensive strap on thermometer to read the boiler temperature from inside the home. saves some cold trips to the stove :) hot rod

A simple

@ October 10, 2007 8:12 AM in Mixing

manual 3 way mix would track along with the OD reset control. For a little more $ you could addd some "smarts' in the form of a 3 way thermostatic. This would better regulate the temperature. I personally agree injection mixing would be over kill. Or run both panels and radiant at 130 :) feed the panels first and the radiant take off from the P/S would probably be close to your need. hot rod


@ October 9, 2007 10:02 PM in Idea

keep trying to fool those instantanous WHers into thinking they are boilers? I haven't had a lot of sucess with the coils connected to a boiler to act as a buffer. I tried a few MZ's with the coil in series as a buffer. Then I tried the tank capacity as a buffer, like the old Trianco indirects. DHW in the coil, boiler in the tank side. That worked much better, but DHW production was lackluster. The Ergomax comes to mind but you need to drive them with 180 temperature to get much DHW performance. Seems silly to run that type of heater to 180 for DHW production then mix down for radiant. Foot on the gas with the brakes as speed control, comes to mind. All things considered the properly sized mod con is hard to beat. the HTP Phoenix does one up the mod concept with on-board buffer :) hot rod

look up some indirect tank output data

@ October 9, 2007 9:28 PM in Heat loss calc for 1\" copper heat exchanger

the tank I pictured above has about 24feet of 1-1/8" smooth stainless coil. Copper is a bit better conductor. Still it is a complicated calculation to answer your question. What will the flow be thru the coil? temperature drop? In a tank of still water? how much area around the coil? Area above the coil for stratifaction? Heat loss of the tank shell. The folks that build that collaspable tank for Tarm and others have some fairly accurate data based mainly on real installation observations. They use a 500 gallon tank with copper coils. a header arrangement as others mentioned with 1" risers and a bunch of 1/2' copper "hoops" off the risers. Exactly how accurate do you need to be? If there was one simple number you would have it by now :) hot rod

This cut a way tank

@ October 9, 2007 9:15 PM in A peek inside a dual coile indirect tank

was an excellent demo at my FarmFest booth this weekend. For the first time I was able to clearly show and explain the indirect concept to homeowners. This tank allowed me to demonstrate the solar coil/ wood boiler option. Wood boiler/ radiant, dual boiler, dual coil 1 heat source, and all the other possible options. This tank from Heat-Flo will also be available with a 1" FIP tap for an electric element option. Heat Flo talked about making these tanks available for dealers and contractor special events. This tank has a 316L, 1-1/8" smooth stainless coil. 20 feet coiled plus about 4 feet of riser tube hot rod

@ October 9, 2007 8:13 PM in A peek inside a nice indirect tank

Sharp bit, powerful motor

@ October 8, 2007 8:41 PM in help wih joist trac

2" hole at least as you need to get two tubes or more thru the holes. The B&D TimberWolf on high speed with a razor sharp bit is the way to go. That Stabila hole alignment laser is very handy for that. I'll send mine up for you to try if you'd like.,2,4,1 hot rod

As good as it gets!

@ October 8, 2007 8:36 PM in From a litter of helpers, this one survived....(JohnNY)

give that lad a raise. Why no sweat iso flanges? hot rod

up to 5 years!

@ October 8, 2007 3:35 PM in Timer control for TRVs!

on the battery life. "A light emitting diode flashes when the batteries are exhausted, at summer winter change over and when the open window recognition is activated." hot rod

For PV powered solar

@ October 8, 2007 3:30 PM in A 12V DC solar controller!

thermal applications, for the off gridders. I didn't pay 80 bucks for it, and I can't tell you, yet, how I will use it on my truck :) hot rod

possibly the only one on the market?

@ October 8, 2007 2:07 PM in A 12V DC solar controller!

Check out Guy's rather unique website. He sent me a DTC1 to experiment with. Heck I could even use it on my truck, somehow? hot rod

How many gpms are you

@ October 8, 2007 1:55 PM in Pinched Pex-Al-Pex Tubing

moving thru it? if it is a radiant loop with a low .5 gpm flow it won't be a flow problem. It will be a wear issue over time not unlike a kink in any tube. The more flow the more of a resistence. A flaring bar is a good way to round PAP back to shape if it is not kinked too badly. A coupling works well also :) hot rod