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Joined on August 27, 2007

Last Post on September 8, 2014

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Is the flow check

@ October 18, 2007 6:05 PM in How to stop hydronic convection

downstream of the circ with the check valve, both being in the supply side? I think it would be better to have the flow check on the return side. This would seem to provide a "gravity gate" on both the supply and return. You also mentioned the temperature drops as you feel the pipe further along. Perhaps little if any flow. It is possible to have two way flow in a pipe under the right conditions. Hense the flow protection on both S&R to be assured you have put a stop to that nonsence :) Makes me wonder how many systems out there actually have small ghost flows that go un-noticed by the homeowners. I've seen indirect tanks slowly over-heat do to lack of adequate S&R protection. Just ma nature trying to always achive thermal equalibrium. hot rod

Pick a spot

@ October 18, 2007 3:54 PM in Hey Dan, How about a Wetstock?

that is easy to fly in to and has the room nearby. Seems to be some nice facilities near or even at DIA. Saves the cab fare or car rental hassles. hot rod

Why the HX?

@ October 18, 2007 3:48 PM in Wood Boiler

between the oil fired and wood fired. If you tied them together properly they would both "see" and share the current expansion tank on the oil boiler. There are a couple piping options to assure that the oil fired never heats the wood fired, or vice versa to prevent the wood fired from warming the oil fired "cooling tower :) OR if there is a reason for the HX isolation you could use glycol in the wood boiler. This would require an additional expansion tank, of course. That's quite distance apart, be sure to well insulate the piping from the outdoor boiler. hot rod

I agree

@ October 18, 2007 3:38 PM in How to stop hydronic convection

with Zeke, I think you are sensing conduction transfer. If anything a spring checK on the return side would provide 100% check protection for both S&R. I've seen zone valves used also, but an overkill in my mind. You might pull the circ to be sure a piece of debris isn't holding the check open. doesn't take much. hot rod


@ October 18, 2007 3:30 PM in Are heat transfer plates absolutely necessary for staple up?

would be my choice and they need to touch the floor tightly to leverage the conduction transfer. They work great with spray foam. I doubt you could spray foam around suspended tube without seriously limiting the convective currents? Nails shouldn't be a problem later if the installer knows tube is installed below the floor. this is commonly done without a problem. hot rod

Well written and

@ October 18, 2007 3:22 PM in Dave Yates - DF

nicely illustrated. No mention of solar preheat? But your picture looks to be one with a solar tube in hand :) hot rod

Grundfos has a line of cast stainless circs

@ October 17, 2007 8:44 AM in Grunfos Pump

onn the market now. a bit ledd $$s then bronze. Great looking also. hot rod

The EconoBurn folks are anxious

@ October 17, 2007 8:41 AM in Wood Boilers

to help. Contact Mark Odell, VP. He knows his stuff a former Dunkirk boiler star. hot rod

A good plan

@ October 17, 2007 8:38 AM in Isolate air bleed with ball valve

remember some of those air vents have a small tab sticking out of the bottom. You may need a short nipple in the valve. I think Raven makes a deep valve just for this purpose. I like the Jomar brand mini ball valves. The work well for gauges also in the 1/4" size. hot rod

Another \"wire nut\"!

@ October 17, 2007 8:36 AM in Presenting (Alex M.)

enjoy the years together. hot rod

Doing my first panel rad install

@ October 16, 2007 10:48 PM in Panel Rad Aesthetics

I have a tough time selling that "look' here in SW Missouri. I spec them, show them, explain the benefits, still no go. On my current job some feed up from the basement below through the floor. On the upper level I used the wall feed method. It sure is tough protecting the wall penetrations through sheetrock, and base trim install. I'm not looking forward to the connections! I used copper stub out ells from Sioux Chief with the pex barbs. I think the center feed panel rads look the best. It gives the appearence that the tubes are there to support the radiator. Congrats on the RPA awards by the way. hot rod

The loop thru the on-demand

@ October 16, 2007 10:34 PM in pressure loss with spring check valve

will need some serious pumping power. They usually have a fairly restrictive heat exchanger. I'd guess more like a 26-99 to move enough flow to get some of the capacity. i doubt that you will get the full capacity out of the heater with a "pumped flow." These units really aren't a good match for hydronic use. The small HX and low 80% efficiency, when firing, work against the initial "good price :) Most of the manufacturers of those instantanous heaters have a flow chart available. What brand are you considering? Glenn Sossin wrote a good post about this with a piping schematic back about 8/8/07 if you search the archives it may turn up. hot rod

That data should be available

@ October 16, 2007 7:47 PM in pressure loss with spring check valve

from the people that make the check valve. it's called the cv factor. The flow rate in GPM with a one psi drop. Ideally you want the check on the discharge side of the circ. The 15-18 will also have a pump curve and the HX a pressure drop listing at various GPMs. All these pieces of the puzzle will answer your question. Is this a small DHW recirc flowing thru an isolation HX by chance? hot rod hot rod

do you mean

@ October 16, 2007 9:08 AM in Slab Sensor with hardwoods

the bottom side of the hardwood? Between the subfloor and underside of the flooring? hot rod

Nice work!

@ October 16, 2007 9:05 AM in Vito 100 + Taco RMB + Pro press

I like seeing a pan under the indirect tank. And nobody is going to steal that condensate neutralizer :) hot rod

Pin them down on the infiltration

@ October 16, 2007 8:57 AM in radiant floor heat for commercial garage

mainly how often the doors are open, or left open. The only shops I have had complaints about are repair shops that leave the overhead doors open or cracked a bit. Usually they neglect to add an exhaust removal system and the open doors move the fumes out?! If they do have a air removal system you may need a pre-heated make up air system. Just be sure to ask these questions. Better now than later. Add the data to your assumption report on the load calc and have the customer sign that. On large shops I do 5/8 or 3/4 and run 500 or 600 foot loops. makes it easier to get to a one manifold location on a large building. Fifteen inch on center is often do-able also. If it is a 6" slab I would highly recommend the re-bar and tube is elevated on chairs. 6" is way to deep for radiant tube, IMO. Layout any equipment that will need to bolt down, cranes, lifts, etc. PAP tube is easier to locate after an install. FostaPex is an excellent durable tube that provides the heavy wall pex with the al jacket for ease of installation and locating. hot rod

Check with their insurance carrier first

@ October 16, 2007 8:46 AM in Wood Boilers

some homwowner policies flat out refuse to insure solid fuel burners inside. Others add a wood burner rider. And yet still some allow them without question???, Tarm, are some of the gasification wood burners I have used. If they are required to have UL or ASME choices become more limited. Royall has both listings but is not a cleaner burning gasification booler. Also consider a pellet boiler. These are much more operator friendly. Screen prospective wood burning customers carefully. It's a fuel that takes a lot of care and maintenance. And price the job carefully. Remember combustion air, rather expensive all fuel venting may be required. a back up heat source is a good idea. And make sure your liability policy covers wood burning appliance installation :) hot rod

a couple choices

@ October 13, 2007 9:15 AM in small circulator 12 volt

Laing, Marsh, Elsid. has an 809 good for about 5gpm at 4' has a smaller D-5 and a few other choices. Here are the curves for the El sid. I have not found any 12V quite as powerful as the oo7, maybe one of these is enough? hot rod

I'll still sell a Royall

@ October 11, 2007 8:42 AM in Small outdoor boilers

I prefer the gasification units for efficiency, features and emissions. With the small fire box it is sometimes hard to get a full day burn with the small Royall. It is a nicely built unit. Heavy steel, nice door, great track record. Central boiler had a nice pellet/ corn burner boiler at the FarmFest last week. They build their own feeder and control module in the US. It actually uses a small Lp tank for the ignition system. Fire tube boiler design. Central claims they sold 12,500 OWF and boilers last year! hot rod

The old Chiles Power Systems

@ October 10, 2007 10:01 PM in Heat loss calc for 1\" copper heat exchanger

Mike and Dan Chiles founders of Heatway use to build solar powered radiant systems, back in the solar/ Radiant Roll days. They constructed well insulated plywood tanks with EPDM liners in the basements and copper coils. A few years back I had to replace a leaking copper coil in one of these 1980 vintage systems. I wanted to use pex for many reasons, mostly weight and cost. One of the Watts Radiant engineers calced about 3 times as much pex as copper to get 'er done. That seems to jive with what you have calculated. I tried the pex, wasn't impressed. The new owner scraped the whole system, as the solar had been removed years earlier after a hail storm, and had me install a boiler. Great systems for their time. this one had a solar and a pond loop geo desuper heater feeding the tank and radiant with DHW preheat coils. A few hundred pounds of copper when i finally dismantled the system :) hot rod

An AquaTherm

@ October 10, 2007 6:19 PM in Small outdoor boilers

brand can be purchased unsheltered. This allows you to build your own enclosure. AquaTherms are pressurized OWF's. The Royall from is a small size that could fit in a small enclosure. They sell it as a pressurized or non pressurized vessel. I had one at my home for a bit. Fairly small firebox, however. One of the few that has an ASME listing (pressurized version) and UL if your insurance company needs that. hot rod

what about the loads?

@ October 10, 2007 6:00 PM in commercial mod/con

if you have varying loads that Aerco Modulex model modulates from 45,000 to 1 million a 23 to 1 turndown!. Quite a turn down for a large boiler. I saw those boilers used in an apartment building in Italy, under another name. It had quite a few seasons under it's belt and the property manager was impressed with it's performance and fuel use. hot rod