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hot rod

hot rod

Joined on August 27, 2007

Last Post on August 28, 2014

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I consider it a consumable

@ August 11, 2014 7:19 PM in Please Help - Leaking Hy Vent

part, those small air vents., it will need service or replacement, just like a thermostatic valve or any other tight tolerance valve.

I'd call that white crud dirt, or minerals, I suppose. The only way to avoid it is fill the system with de-mineralized water.

And some contractors do fill with DM water that they filter at the job site.

That small Sorbox recently shown here demineralizes fill water for small systems. Several other manufacturers are bringing out small DM systems that connect by the fill valve.

It is wise to use DM water for blending glycols on the job site, Dow requires it.

lot of work putting that together

@ August 11, 2014 10:41 AM in System's Architect

nice work.

A few comments, I wonder about the 85% savings with ECM circs, seems a bit high?

Check on your description of braze plate HX, sounds like you are describing a tube and shell?

I question the actual performance of the hybrid collectors. Unless you have a large demand for that thermal energy, or a huge storage that can keep the fluid temperature to those PV modules, I wonder how much that adds? Along the lines of co-gen units. Unless the thermal load is high not sure the $$ payback is there?

The control-ability of those high mass storage is the trick. That one looks like they insulate the mass from the slab? The slab right on top of the sand can be a little too much during cooling seasons.

Keeping the heat in the concrete tank will also be a challange, seems 8-10" of insulation is required?

a very simple device

@ August 11, 2014 10:08 AM in Please Help - Leaking Hy Vent

A stem, and an o-ring seal, are the shutoff mechanism.

It doesn't take much to cause them to seep, a grain of sand in that seal an do it. Dirty fluid is a main cause of leakers.

You could add a hygroscopic cap for a second level of shut off protection.

This Caleffi cap is ordered on many vents, it should fit other brands.

maybe try this

@ August 10, 2014 2:16 PM in Need to kno everything about Twintube...

Goo. I have used it on all types of rubber and plastics. Looks and smells like rubber cement, but thicker viscosity. I think you want something that "sets", not a pipe dope or gasket sealer.

How bad (black) is the fluid in the system? if all the zones flow, I'm not sure I would flush the fluid and replace it.

If it flushes out like old motor oil, or a thick heavy sludge, it will probably not exchange heat as designed, and it may plug the HX.

If the tube is getting hard or brittle in places, not much you can do to bring it back.

I remember Heatway trying various chemicals and additives to try and keep the tube from going south. I doubt anything really worked.

The lowest possible operating pressure, of course.

get some constant tension hose clamps

@ August 9, 2014 6:57 PM in Need to kno everything about Twintube...

they look like this. most auto suppliers have them, O-Reilly Auto in my area does.

They tighten and hold a constant tension better than spring clamps.

If the tube is hard and brittle be very careful, maybe dry everything and use some adhesive as mentioned.

You really should flush it, I know some guys are using this Fernox pump to clean out old non-barrier tube.

Really any pressure type pump, maybe a small 1/2hp fill pump or shallow well type pump. it may need to circulate for a few days.

how much $$

@ August 8, 2014 10:14 AM in Smart solution of outdoor shower

it could be as simple as one of those black bag solar camping showers.. Or a small collector on the roof with a 30 gallon solar tank, with electric back up.

There are a number of these free standing solar showers. I suppose a piece of 4" ABS pipe with a faucet attached.

i have seen really engineered ones with a couple evac tubes connected to a pedastal, just connect a hose.

Plenty of You Tube videos on clever solar shower DIYers

thanks gentlemen

@ August 7, 2014 4:18 PM in An interesting discussion.

for the support.

I like that idea of adding conditioner into the cap. Easy access on that fine thread, o-ring seal. i'll credit you with the idea, Harvey, in my training slides :)

You can

@ August 7, 2014 8:06 AM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

Feed more than one fixture from the point of use valve. If you have multiple sinks in a restroom for example. You really do need to use that point of use valve. It is built to be tamper proof and is limited to 120 max. Output temperature

Your State should have a plumbing code they adopted, refer to that. Or hire an engineer to spec all the Appropiate valves if you are insure or concerned about liability

one method

@ August 4, 2014 10:39 AM in Pressure testing cast iron radiators

Start with a good flush, you may find mice of mud wasps have taken up residence inside. A garden hose from the bottom, then top to get all the crud out.

I use a Webstone valve with a 15 psi gauge, and a washer hose to connect to the hose bib.

Connect on the bottom connection, fill, cap off the top and take to 15 psi. You need to watch the pressure carefully, you can also add a Autofill set at 15 psi so you don't over-pressurize.

Once up to pressure, shut off the hose connection and watch the gauge for an hour.

This happens to be a 1" Webstone, 1/2" is fine.

older style

@ August 3, 2014 9:44 PM in Electric Boiler and short cycling

electric boilers had magnetic contactors, frequent, short cycling wasn't kind to those contactors. Plus the noise and lights dimming :)

Most of the current electric boilers have triacs controlling them, for variable outputs and soft starts. Triacs, electronic relays, are very rugged devices.

Doesn't AO Smith

@ August 3, 2014 9:39 PM in Emerson swan

own Lochinvar? I suspect you will see some really cutting edge tanks and boilers from them also. You already do, actually.

good reading here

@ August 3, 2014 3:56 PM in How would you....? (daycare mixing)

Any idea what the max GPM that will be required? On large flow buildings it may be best to use a Hi-Low mixer. It's hard to find a hi flow, large Cv valve that will regulate down to .5 gpm.

Your building official should be able to point you to the code they use. Day care centers sometimes limit to 100F for hand sinks, so a point of use 1070 valves may be needed at fixtures, with a point of distribution 1017 back at the water heater.

ASSE is a fairly complicated standard, and it changes every few years. Get the requirement from the AHJ. Manufacturers may not spec the valve as code requirements vary depending on codes used and AHJ moods :)

Typically a mix of ASSE 1070 and 1017 valves will work.

If there is a recirc loop in the building you need to be sure it is piped correctly with thermostatic mix valves.

Idronics 11 has some good info and piping schematics.

How often

@ August 2, 2014 4:40 PM in Micro-load Dilemma: Add Storage or Nuclear Option

does the small zone call by itself?

How often does the boiler fire, and how long does it run when that load calls.


@ August 2, 2014 12:04 PM in Condensing cast iron?

has been around for 6 years or so. No personal experience

wrong thread

@ August 2, 2014 12:01 PM in Utica


@ July 31, 2014 5:48 PM in Evenflow Ball valves brass 600psi WOG

external force

@ July 31, 2014 5:37 PM in Evenflow Ball valves brass 600psi WOG

could have pulled that apart. Looks like some sort of hose quick connect on the other valves.

Merely tripping on a hose could put enough force to pull that shallow, fin e, soft thread assembly joint apart.

A big difference between a 3 dollar and 12 dollar valve. looks like an industrial quality valve with proper support is called for? Along with suggestions from Ice regarding environmental conditions.

surface area

@ July 31, 2014 10:07 AM in Pool heating

is what heat transfer is all about. Look at the flat plate pool HX also, you get a lot of heat exchange surface in a small HX. They can be built and sized for close approach and low pressure drop.

Need to know what temperature you have on the A side, those tube and shell need pretty good delta T with small square footage surface area, to give you high output.

that is common

@ July 30, 2014 8:51 PM in Evenflow Ball valves brass 600psi WOG

to stamp the country of origin under the handle. Have you contacted Everflow, I suspect they will want the failed ones back for evaluation.

Send a new one out to a lab for testing, should be easy to find the fail point on a test bench.

What is the application? Is it possible the pressure exceeded 120? Any gauges on the system.

do you mean EverFlow?

@ July 30, 2014 4:31 PM in Evenflow Ball valves brass 600psi WOG

They are located in NJ, could be a China import, it should be labeled country of origin, but there are way around that,

"PRC" is one way I have seen around putting China on a valve, People's Republic of China.

You can still get domestic brass, if you request it. Most of the big name manufacturers offer import and domestic.

Or top quality Italian ball valves.

What was the failure?

I really like

@ July 29, 2014 2:57 PM in thread sealant

this 3- Wrap tape from Mill Rose. You really do not need to add any dope with it. Great for rough threads, and comes off the roll better, to the very end.

how much?

@ July 29, 2014 2:48 PM in Advice on adding zones

flow will you be trying to move.

Assume you boiler runs 80% efficient, you have around 125,000 BTU available to move.

A heat load calc would determine what the home actually needs for BTU/hr on design condition. Could be that boiler is oversized for the load to begin with.

Assume the main area needs 90,000, 9 gpm at 20° ∆T

Here is what the pressure drop with a 3.5, and a 7.5 Cv valve, looks like. The third box shows pressure drop with a known Cv and flow rate.

So you need to do some number crunching to get an exact answer to your question, a load calc to start. It's good info to have, an accurate load calc, everything sizes around that critical number.

Those old, large pipe conversions generally do not need a lot of flow, or present much pressure drop.
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