Heating Help

Drawings

@ May 2, 2013 11:27 AM in Old building DHW recirc system

I'll post pics and a schematic later.

3 Lochinvar tanks in parallel, 1.5 out and a .5 back from each side really is all I can see. At the return termination it ties into the cold water makeup line that feeds all 3 tanks in parallel. On some hot water calls the cold water is drawn backwards through the pump and mixes in the recirc line. It's that Backflow or mixing I need to stop. The temps on my returns are great now since I found nearly totally blocked iron pipe in both directions. With that removed it is recirculating great. Uninsulated iron pipe. Lots of heat loss.

Since I was asked to deal with the recirc issue I have not checked tank temps yet. I'll do that as part of my checklist today before wrapping up. Camus mod con is making the DHW.

Size

@ May 1, 2013 11:46 PM in Old building DHW recirc system

So the 15-35 or the 0014 are too big? The 15-35 is 3 speed.

Any thoughts on the recirc termination? Maybe move it from the hot water makeup to the to the hot water supply?

Found issue

@ May 1, 2013 8:38 PM in Old building DHW recirc system

There is a spring check on the suction of the pump. If the pump is running it is open. If there is a large enough call for hot water, cold make up water cheats backwards against the pump and into the hot recirc line! Should I dump off my recirc somewhere else or rearrange the check system? If I choke the iso flange off enough it doesn't Backflow but I loose recirc capacity.

Single handle faucets..

@ May 1, 2013 7:26 PM in Old building DHW recirc system

Can someone help me grasp in what circumstances single handle fixtures effect a recirc system like this? My returns both got really hot after I replaced all the plugged pipe around the return then one side got cool, felt mixed.

Info

@ May 1, 2013 2:51 PM in Old building DHW recirc system

No balance valves, no 3-way. Straight out of the tanks and back.

Old building DHW recirc system

@ May 1, 2013 11:24 AM in Old building DHW recirc system

The Barbara Worth. 1920's. 40 units, 3 stories, all enclosed.

DHW line goes supply down the east side in 1.5" and a recirc line back from both sides in 1/2" that several units' tubs pull from.

Found a UPS 15-35SFC installed and swapped in a bronze 0014 and got 10-15* better in a few minutes, but still way sub standard on the far end and down the west side. 107* max.

Also found the remnants of an old bronze series 100 B&G. Could it be in this case I do actually need a bit more pump? Neither return seems to be hotter than the other, and isolating one side does let the other side get hotter but slightly and it takes a while.

Both returns hit a 3/4 tee then down to the recirc pump in 3/4 before mixing with the cold water supply.

Hope everyone is well!

Tim

Gauge

@ February 1, 2013 11:53 AM in Where in the heck is my water going???

Yes, I should have been more clear. I use a tee and add a 0-5 gauge in addition to my 0-30 which is required here as well. Twice the relief value.

Gauge

@ February 1, 2013 11:52 AM in Where in the heck is my water going???

Yes, I should have been more clear. I use a tee and add a 0-5 gauge in addition to my 0-30 which is required here as well. Twice the relief value.

changes

@ January 31, 2013 8:15 AM in Where in the heck is my water going???

I gave them a price per trap to supply them, and I always use a 1-5lb gauge on any steamer I service to set pressure more accurately.

We audit and look in every apartment today.

System

@ January 30, 2013 2:04 AM in Where in the heck is my water going???

The system actually runs pretty well, despite it's issues.

Turns out I was asked to enter a random apartment to show the maint guy what the packing is and that unit had 2 leaking packing and a vent where it certainly dose not belong just spewing steam out non-stop.

Sheesh. Imagine building wide????

Heat!

@ January 30, 2013 2:00 AM in Heatloss.....

Yes, I was aware they generate heat, and thus was really glad to see those icicles. I need to check their food and put the feeder on.

Gone.

@ January 29, 2013 1:28 PM in Where in the heck is my water going???

Oh, the water is gone. Period. Has to be filled every 3rd day. I run it at about 1.5 because that's as low as that presstrol will go reliably. Hard to sell vapor stats when they have heat it seems.

The south building has chronic leaks in its returns and that's where it looses water when it acts up but this building is in great shape underneath. Very little banging and only on a cold start up.

Heatloss.....

@ January 29, 2013 1:08 PM in Heatloss.....

Looks like some heatloss happening!

My wife gets it!

@ January 29, 2013 1:00 PM in My wife gets it!

So the maint guys at a account of mine were messing with the steam thawing system in the downspouts and left the valve open. I got a call about steam shooting out the side of a building and just shut the valve. My wife sees the pic below and says "well, I guess they're not getting that water back..."

I about died. She understands these steamers better than most maint guys around here just from me describing what I do in a day!

Where in the heck is my water going???

@ January 29, 2013 12:38 PM in Where in the heck is my water going???

2-pipe system, mil BTU. Last month the plumbing inspector left the fill on when he certified the BFP, and flooded the system up to the first floor rads.

Now, the system shuts down on LWCO every 3rd day. I flooded the boiler when it was cycled off and cool and not a drop. Not a drop of water in the fire box or around the boiler. Main vent closes perfect. Only 8' or so of wet return under cement, and I have test holes drilled along it and no moisture whatsoever comes up.

Today I watched with my own eyes the water level drop 1.5" in 2-3 seconds, and stay down, as the steam started up, but I attribute that to stuck open spring checks instead of a swing check on the horizontal run. Also, too long of connection and too low from loop to boiler. But, those issues would not explain my water loss.

I crawled all the way up on both sides and found the pipes to be in excellent condition, actually. That leaves steam escaping from rads / valves / traps / vents that should not be on there. Right? It only takes a few bad valve packings to lose a considerable amount of water, correct?

Taking out the trash..

@ January 10, 2013 8:48 AM in First and Foremost

Every site gets vulgar and trash posts. They did not come from you. Seems it was 'younger' members. Very classless. If guys want to talk like that, there are plenty of sites out there.

403

@ January 8, 2013 11:41 PM in Tekmar 403 halp please!!

Has a reset feature. It's outdoor design temp is 15* so it allows the most at 15* instead of 5* or 10*. How is it possible for the mix design to be higher than the boiler design??? Shouldn't the boiler design be set based on what the mix design and outdoor temps are??

Tekmar 403 halp please!!

@ January 8, 2013 7:29 PM in Tekmar 403 halp please!!

Hey all....

I installed a 403 on a RBI this past year. If I bump
my mix target to 170*, the boiler target still says 150* and will not
rise to meet the mix. period. I turned off the boiler min and my boiler
design is 180*. Outdoor design is 15*. Whatever I change, I cannot make
this boiler fire up to 180* and get my mix over about 135*. Delta t is
about 10* or less. I need more heat but just can't seem to get it.
Ideas?

Thanks,  happy new year,  Tim

OOPS!

@ January 8, 2013 7:27 PM in Tekmar 403 halp please!!

Just realized this was in Steam and not the Wall.

I'll repost there.

Tekmar 403 halp please!!

@ January 8, 2013 7:15 PM in Tekmar 403 halp please!!

Moved to wall

Grand kids!

@ December 21, 2012 11:58 AM in In floor radiant max temp?

Nope, I'm 41. Both of my kids are early 20's and no children, which is a good thing for each of them.

My wife has 6 grown children who are 10-15 years older than my kids. 12 grand kids from her side!

pump, other info

@ December 21, 2012 9:03 AM in In floor radiant max temp?

Pump is a 26-99 3-speed. Just the single loop of 3/4. Right now, the Tek 403 is set to 120 max, which allows the mix design to reach 130 but that is still far short. Cust swears they ran 150 in there, but I never saw that. Also, on mild days, the system is waaaaaaaay oversized and sounds like a jet taking off so they moved the pump speeds to low to get rid of noise, but I just stopped by quickly last night while the owner was in town and did not have my truck. I head back later today.

Is there a "max temp" that should be run through concrete? What happens when that is exceeded?

I am working on sizing a coil (or two) to add onto the AC air handler and run some hydro-air off of a 2-stage stat that would deliver 100k btus to the areas that need it on the main floor, since duct work is there now.