Heating Help

So I get this call.....

@ January 26, 2012 4:24 PM in So I get this call.....

Local company needs a bit of advise on piping a steam boiler. They are a furnace & AC company but do plumbing. I get there and standing in the corner of a room is a 1.5 mil BTU Fulton Boiler with a huge power burner and 2" tappings, and a condensate pump setup. 150 psi max. Customer provided.

The customer wants to run a flexible hose from the steam supply tapping and to these stainless steel tanks to sterilize them by running 26 psi steam in them for 20 minutes. Then he needs to break the vacuum with a special air filter. The hose would need to be able to be disconnected and connected to another tank. The tanks are from 50 to 500 gallon, on wheels.

Customer says they want to be able to just open and close a valve for this process and I asked him how they intended to manage the disconnection of 26lbs of steam from these tanks and explained that this is typically designed by an engineer, not the end installer. They said they would consult an engineer or the company who made the tanks.

They also want to use the steam to warm a culture tank and the condensed steam could just become part of the product....But did not have specifications of how much liquid and of what type, and how the steam was going to "mix" with the product....

Wow....just wow....

Super cool!

@ December 19, 2011 7:48 AM in Can anyone ID this trap?

So these traps obviously needed to be cleaned, thus the small port under them.

Can they be replaced with a trap? Still available or just convert to 2-pipe with traps?

Should the boiler have a vaporstat and not a pressuretrol which is currently set to just over 2lbs???

And for main vents they have standard Hoffman main vents that stand up on tall pipes off the returns. Is this the correct beast as well?

Boiler is a 10 year old Smith sectional. Several rads have vents on them.

Tim

Almost...

@ December 19, 2011 12:11 AM in Can anyone ID this trap?

Almost but not quite. these "traps" have a check ball in them....not a baffler or swinging flap. They also have some type of drain plug. Just want to know if they are true traps and should be replaced with modern traps since steam is getting by and banging. Vents were added at the end of the line to get steam to trouble areas when raising pressure caused too much banging....

thanks!

@ December 19, 2011 12:03 AM in Can anyone ID this trap?

I'll look that up now! I figured someone would have seen it....

Tim

Can anyone ID this trap?

@ December 18, 2011 11:28 PM in Can anyone ID this trap?

This building is about 1920. All rads have this trap, many have vents....arrrrg!

Banging about 10 minutes after start up, 2-pipe system. Banging is down the line, not boiler room.

No idea why it rotated my pic.....

Tim

Am I just plum crazy.....or will this work???!!!

@ October 6, 2011 3:02 PM in Am I just plum crazy.....or will this work???!!!

So....this big mil BTU sectional Peerless steamer is running off a condensate collection tank that has a float for water level and no trap for the end of the mains returns whatsoever so steam just shoots out the vent (open pipe) on top of the collection box! Issues are leaks between all the rear seals (replacing all the seals and rope first) and high gas bills and banging like crazy. It has to be run at like 5-7 psi to get steam all around because of the open vent in the boiler room on that collection box. The kicker is that there are two dry returns below the boiler's water line that serve the two apartments in the basement. They make it into the collection box with a decent slope, and are just the condensate drainage as the basement rads are trapped. (two-pipe system). Header is not dropped, but slopes OK and will stay.

Here is my solution.

Run new gravity return with swing check & dirt legs with blow down valves. Put main vent on each end of main return and let them both just run into the new wet return, no connection to the tank. As for the two low returns, keep them in the tank, run the water supply to that tank, and let that tank be my fill reserve and the collection point for those two low basement returns. The main LWCO would run that condensate tank's pump just like it always has, and take water as it needs it. This make up water would tie into the new wet return but with a swing check.

Pics when I can...

Thoughts?

Today's results

@ September 10, 2011 5:39 PM in A coil freezing up....fast

So I did not have any AC equipment with me today but we went up there. What I found was that the vast majority (90+%) of the return was coming from the bedroom closest to the furnace and almost none was being pulled from the great room or other bedroom. By blocking 3/4 of the closest return, it pulled a lot more from the great room. Also, when I cleaned the inside coil, lots and lots of blue build-up came off the coil as I rinsed it. Now, lots more air goes through. Last, I sealed all the places where air got around the coil, and now 100% of the air gets sent through the coil. With the system on for 30 minutes and the TXV closed or in all the way, the vents blew frosty cold, the return was even and favored the great room, and the condenser was putting out very hot air. When it finally got the room down to 73 from 77 there were no signs of frost on the suction line.
I can take actual readings Monday.

Thanks,  Tim

Thanks for the reply!

@ September 9, 2011 7:27 PM in A coil freezing up....fast

When I closed the TXV I cracked it back open a 1/4 turn and the entire coil froze again. solid. I would love to take some action while I am up there tomorrow but am just getting my feet wet in AC. Easy to get a new system sized right up & working, but issues like this will require advise and field schooling.

Thanks,  Tim

A coil freezing up....fast

@ September 9, 2011 6:42 PM in A coil freezing up....fast

So I get this job handed to me. 4.5 ton coil, 5.5 ton condenser, maybe 900 sq' of space with vaulted ceiling and 5 registers max. I forget furnace size but way oversized. R-22. Coil freezes into a solid block of ice that grows out of the ducting.

My local rep says just put a TXV on it and a 3-ton condenser. Should be good to go. I do this and still freezing up the coil, within a few hours even. I adjust the TXV all the way in but still freezing. Charge is correct, TXV was installed exactly where the instructions said to put it.

Thoughts? Heading up there tomorrow. This is happening with outdoor temps in the mid to high 90's. Sorry I don't have more numbers for 'yall. Last trip up it was 76 in the room and stat was set for 69 and the coil was solid ice, all the way across.

On startup, it pulls a ton of heat out of the rooms and the AC feels nice and super cold. A few hours later with the coil frozen, not so good.

Thanks,    Tim

Very funny observation...

@ September 2, 2011 9:56 AM in Very funny observation...

So on a gun board I frequent, I posted the question "What have you learned from a movie?"

After several pages of funny replies, one reply was " that in every building, factory or warehouse, every single pipe is filled with steam"

Now THAT is comedy, folks!

Thanks for the advise!

@ August 26, 2011 8:35 AM in Pulling down a system help..,

So I bought a JB 7CFM pump and could not be happier. The other two were 5 CFM and super heavy. This pump is lighter than one of the other! Anyway, it pulled down to 120 microns when I went to get a cold drink. The pump itself has a ball valve isolator. I am starting to enjoy the AC thing.......

Tim

Pulling down

@ August 22, 2011 9:50 AM in Pulling down a system help..,

I use two pumps because I bought both very cheep and they are new but low cfm. I do not isolate the pumps when I check microns, just shut them down. I do have a vac pump tree but am not sure I am doing this exactly right. I put one pump to each gauge hose (4 port gauge with large vac hose and regular refrig hose) and take the gauge off the tree on the pump that has the large hose.

Thanks, Tim

Pulling down a system help..,

@ August 19, 2011 1:17 PM in Pulling down a system help..,

So I charge the small system (1.5 ton) to 350# of co2 and it holds for an hour. I release that and hook up 2 pumps to pull it down to 200 microns. The second I kill the pumps it jumps to way over 10k microns and then crawls back down. Brand new digital gauge. When I run the pumps again it jumps back down to 400 microns in seconds.

Any thoughts??????

Thanks, Tim

Barry

@ July 10, 2011 10:36 PM in 1300 microns!

My manifold (I call him Barry) is indeed a 4-port. Are you referring to the black hoses that are double the size and cost? A set of those and a nice vac pump tree will be next!

No offense at all taken on the suggestions for the nitro! I need and appreciate all the advise I can get since I did not apprentice for this and have learned from text books. Can't wait to clean those gauges. My pumps are 5cfs and are good for 40 microns.

Is 250 too low to pull each job down to?

thanks!

@ July 10, 2011 9:05 PM in 1300 microns!

Great advise! Thanks for sharing!! Going to clean them both tomorrow!!

Tim

simple standards

@ July 10, 2011 3:46 PM in 1300 microns!

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, I swept with compressed nitrogen while braising. I did in fact pressurize with nitrogen, but just to 100 psi to check for leaks. I did not read in any text book about getting up to 425 and I appreciate the advise.  As per Goodman's install manual, I pull down to 250 microns. Is this too far or a waste of time?

When a different system I just did got down to 300 microns, it slowly rose back up to over 1000. I assumed leak, and re-pressurized. No leak. When I pulled down again, it got down to 300 and made an odd noise, and then the microns jumped to 800 with vapor at the pump outlet, then it settled back down. Water boiling out?

At every AC service call, I examine the indoor coil and outdoor coil every time. I pulled a sheet of dog hair off of a indoor coil on a under-performing system last week.

Last week, I had a system that would not pull down normal at all. I went
to lunch (30 min) with the vac pumps running. When I got back, I was
still at 800 microns. When I killed the pumps, the pressure DROPPED to
400 microns and held fine. What happened there? Gauge issue?

Thanks for the discussion. This is my first season offering AC and I am confident I can do this reliably. So far, great results.

Charge!

@ July 8, 2011 11:47 AM in Frozen suction line?

so when I got back the ice had melted. Fired it up. 40 suction and 140 discharge. The factory charge guide is for 15' of line set and I have that much outside. This unit is on the far side of the 3rd floor.

Up to 60 suction now. No ice, air from condenser much warmer.

Frozen suction line?

@ July 8, 2011 9:19 AM in Frozen suction line?

just got a new condenser in and fired up. Came back to check on system and the suction line is frozen on the outside and part of the compressor. Too early to go in the unit to check indoor condition. While I wait for the valve to thaw, what does this indicate? I charged to factory spec with r22 and evacuation held fine.

Thanks.

More cfm

@ July 6, 2011 9:38 PM in 1300 microns!

with a second pump I am down to 350 and falling slow. Yellow hoses larger size to pump. Must just be lots of moisture.

1300 microns!

@ July 6, 2011 8:27 PM in 1300 microns!

I can't seem to draw a system down below 1300 microns. Swapped a condenser on a 3 ton system and can't get a good vacuum. Can't find any leaks either. How long should it take a 5 cfm pump to bring a system with 75' of lines down to 250 microns?

dead

@ June 24, 2011 11:55 PM in Trane chiller issues

Discoloration of the oil. Very high suction pressure. Valve rattle. Compressor shuts down on thermal overload even when run on half-load. No cooling capacity. Blows 150A fuses.

Pronounced dead at about 8:00 PM my time.

Info

@ June 23, 2011 10:29 PM in Trane chiller issues

OK. I won't be able to get the tower recirc pump's pressures because there are no tappings out there. I had it rebuilt last year due to leaking seals.

The hard part will be getting it up & running. Under full load, it is tripping out and will restart if manually reset and the anti-recycle timer times out 5 minutes.