Heating Help

vents

@ October 7, 2010 10:40 PM in ID this steam system?

Any time I see rad vents tapped into the hot water bleeder vent tappings on top of the rad, and just on 2-4 rads and not all, I figure something has gone wrong and we all know the correct solution is to just add a vent to the troubled rad and leave the pressure turned up to 10psi!!

Moline

@ October 7, 2010 10:34 PM in ID this steam system?

In SLC, UT. Affluent area, homes from about 1915 or so.

Yes, that vent pictured was the only one I saw, and it looked more like a vacuum breaker. I just love the water heater connector. The radiator return valve...just on & off? Not a trap? You can clearly see where a key would fit in there...I assume to balance the system? I need to put together a estimate to get it straightened out right but need to troubleshoot the vents on rads issue, as well as making the main vent work right. I will pull out lost art later, as well as the other resources. Is this a vapor type system? As mentioned, it was up at 8psi or so....

Tim

ID this steam system? (Moline)

@ October 7, 2010 6:02 PM in ID this steam system?

Looked at a steam system today I have not seen. The large trap in the basement says Moline, as do the small valves on each radiator. Some radiators have a vent, I assume due to the Moline part being stuck or bad, and someone going down the wrong path to get heat back to those rads. System was being run at 8psi when I got there. Any ID on these valves on the rads would be great, as well as any literature or info on this type of system. Trane valves.  Last, what did they do on top of the trap with the water heater connector??? Just a hose bib up there and a strange vent on the end of the water heater connector.

EDIT for spelling....

Thanks,  Tim

App!!!

@ October 2, 2010 12:32 AM in Steam App!

I came in for the link!!! Darn. :'-(

Classic

@ September 25, 2010 11:14 PM in Radiators making a horrible knocking sound.

You have water hammer. Steam passing water in the same pipe or radiator does this. Just like tapping on the pipe with a hammer. Needs new traps (opposite side from valves, not a overflow devise) and pipes / radiators sloped back to the return. When too many traps go bad, they crank up the pressure to get heat to all the rads. With working traps, pressure can be turned WAY down to like 2psi and that would stop banging AND save BIG $$$$$$.

LWCO

@ September 25, 2010 11:03 PM in water feeder

Yes, having both is fine. Code here says you need two lwco devises. One is feeding your water and protecting, and the other is just protecting. You can just replace the feeder.

Boiler

@ September 19, 2010 10:07 AM in Back flow preventer dripping?

Thanks for the ideas. It is a steamer that is being protected, and has not fired since installing the new BFP. I would agree that it seems to be a condition causing this, not the devise. Trouble is, no pressure on protected side to push back...just the 2 feet of pipe between solenoid and BFP. Even if the solenoid closure hammered the BFP and made it drip, that should be momentary and not continue for a day now. Really pricey devise to fail from box, and filtered from beginning. May end up looking for debris in it but acts like a condition issue.

Dismantle

@ September 19, 2010 9:36 AM in Back flow preventer dripping?

Hate to dig into new equipment when it had a filter installed from beginning. I am thinking the tiny release of pressure from the leak maybe? Sheeeesh....thing is brand new.

Age

@ September 18, 2010 11:28 PM in Gas Explosion is the worst I have ever seen

Pipe was installed in 1956. What is protocol for inspection? Pressure test sections? Not feasible to dig it up and inspect it all the way from end to end. What will happen here do you suppose?

It goes....

@ September 18, 2010 10:57 PM in Back flow preventer dripping?

Service valve, filter, BFP, y strainer, solenoid, boiler. Yes, there is city pressure to the BFP and I cycled it a few times to get the air out. It is 3/4" and I did quote a complete rebuild, vent, checks and seats. They chose new because someone else 'rebuilt' it last year and now it was a full stream of water, not just a drip. The union between the BFP and the solenoid does have the smallest drip, which I will replace Monday. Just barely wet.

Back flow preventer dripping?

@ September 18, 2010 10:36 PM in Back flow preventer dripping?

Just installed a new Zurn 975 XL, double check. Brand new, and drips. The old unit was running solid from vent and owner opted for new. I installed a good house filter upstream and it already caught a lot of rust, but the new unit had the filter in place before it saw any water. BFP is protecting a 1 mil btu steamer with a solenoid makeup water setup. Suggestions? Boiler is off and BFP is still dripping. Boiler was not run since it was installed. I drained boiler to run BFP and filter a few cycles after install.

Thanks, Tim

evap coil ratings?

@ September 17, 2010 10:02 AM in evap coil ratings?

I have an evap coil in a home, maybe 5 years old, and I need to convert to 410. Coil is spotless, looks like it was just installed. My goal would be to add a TXV and use same coil, but I cant find any info on that coil's rating. Just a name, model number is scratched, somewhat unreadable. International Comfort Products, Model # EPA....something. No serial number.

What is the average pressure with 410 vs 22?

Tim

Electronic sight glass

@ August 9, 2010 10:56 PM in Help read these numbers...

Asked about this today at the supply house and they looked like I asked about a snipe. Any further details on this? Other terms for it?

Making sense

@ August 7, 2010 10:54 PM in Help read these numbers...

This really is starting to make sense. How does a freeze up affect compressor oil? Can this be replaced? Check this by noise of compressor or temp? No sight glass on this system or any other system I have looked at. The sight glass will show what's happening? You say they make an electronic or clamp on version? Seems to be an important tool but if not required no one wants to spend the extra $15 to buy one. I can't tell you how much this is helping all the reading I've been doing come together. Very hard to learn from a book. I would love to return the favor you have been doing here. Very interesting info. Learning my vac pump and gauges and tank protocol is next! I really want to do this. My mom lives in CA and has had no AC for more than 20 years. It will be great to fix this for her as well as offer AC service. I am mostly steam and hot water but get enough calls every season to make this well worth the effort.

Thanks again

@ August 7, 2010 9:33 PM in Help read these numbers...

So where does the RH come into play with these numbers? Indoor, register, and outdoor. Is there a chart for startup vs running pressures or does the temp/press chart tell you everything? Is there a standard basic proceedure for starting and checking a system after it has thawed? What does the suction temp at the condenser tell you in relation to system charge?

Thanks, Tim

Thanks

@ August 7, 2010 1:42 PM in Help read these numbers...

I bought HVACR 1&2 and Modern refrigeration and ac from this site already, but reading only takes one soo far. Many, many subtleties come from watching learning and asking questions. In this case, customer is happy to have ac on and working but if charge is low I'd like go be able to properly diagnose that and charge for the fix. Same with any other deficiency. Since I never actually worked as or with any ac guys this is something I will need to learn the hard way by reading and asking.

Discharge

@ August 7, 2010 12:35 AM in Help read these numbers...

System was on for 10-15 min when reg checked. Attributed high discharge temp to high 80's temp in the house. More info in reply above. EPA test next week but need to dive into this and learn what the numbers mean. Thank you.

Sheeeeeeesh...

@ August 7, 2010 12:32 AM in Help read these numbers...

Where to start. Indoor temp was well into the 80's. Did not take readings since it was a hot kinda humid day had ac had been off for a day. Did not check superheat or supercool, need to know how. Do some systems need over 60# suction pressure? Used coil cleaner on both evap coil and condenser. Evap had a layer of dog hair that peeled off then I used coil cleaner followed by rinse, evap and condenser. Both were very dirty. Lots of books on how to install but I need to get into service and reading these numbers. Another tester for super heat / cool? Took register readings maybe 10 min after firing up after cleaning. Thanks a lot for the advise and info guys. I really want to dive into this and learn what the numbers actually mean. Metering devise is fixed not txv. Early 90's. Did not check seer. Blower wheel dusty, rinsed it well now clean. R22. Call was frozen condenser but they had it off and I did not see it. No leaks at visible braise joints found.

Help read these numbers...

@ August 5, 2010 10:53 PM in Help read these numbers...

I am just breaking into AC as we type. Got a call today about a frozen condenser and found a pound of dog hair welded to the inside of the coil. I cleaned the coil, cleaned the condenser and took these numbers

Outside air 93* 26%rh
Register reading after being on for 15 min 58.2* 56%rh
Suction temp 60.4*
system charge 60# even suction, 215# liquid side.

The house was getting cold when I left but I would like to learn what these numbers really tell me about the system's health. Of course I changed filter and left 5 behind.

Thanks in advance, Tim

Noise

@ May 17, 2010 9:40 PM in chasing a radiation noise (quick before my wife and dog disown me!)

"You are most likely experiencing fluid noise from two high of flow rate for the size of pipe and heat emitter.
1" type "L" copper approaches 4 ft/sec at 10 gpm according to the B&G system syzer wheel.  Anytime you get near to or over 4ft/sec in a system you will get noise and at the higher flow rate your air eliminators won't expel air from the system as well as at a slower flow rate which could increase your system noise if you still have air entrapped in the system. 
Your 008 pumps at even 6 foot of head is flowing almost 11.5 gpm.  If your calculated head for that loop is less then 6ft then you will even be flowing faster. If you calculated your flow needs and head-loss for your whole system you will probably find that one 008 as a system pump could have carried the whole system and you could have used zone valves instead of pumps for each zone.
You could swap the 008's out with small three speed pumps like wilo's 21s, or grundfos 15-58 or you could replace the 008's with a wilo ECO or grundfos Alpha pump and dial in exactly what you need for flow while saving you in the neighborhood of 80% in electrical cost over the fixed speed circulators. 
On a side note we install Wilo ecos and stratos pumps in every job we do and have only installed one grundfos Alpha.  So I tend to lean towards the Wilo Line but both pumps have worked out great for us and depending on your electric rates and length of heating system the payback is in around 2 years or a little less."

This.

Asbestos vent pipe??

@ May 4, 2010 9:54 PM in Asbestos vent pipe??

Just looked at a house (1850 or so) that has a pipe burried in the wall that is super hard but not metallic. I chipped a bit off the edge and it is fiberous. Ever seen a totally asbestos vent pipe? New to me.

Tim

hole

@ May 1, 2010 4:35 PM in Neutalizing PH condensate,,,

It would need to be a sizable hole because the mod cons I service put out a ton of water...Check with building code but sounds really hokey to me....