Joined on February 12, 2005
Last Post on December 5, 2013
@ December 5, 2013 7:19 PM in Circulater for condensate loop off of steam boilerI just replaced the Taco 007-F5 circulator. I bought a stainless steel 007 as an open box item, though unused, on Ebay for $110.
When I removed the old one, I expected it to be caked in rust. Not at all. Nada. The old one looked almost as good as new. Not a drop of crud on the impeller wheel. Yes, the bearings didn't spin smoothly, but after five years, they still spun easily when I turned them. Could it be the Rhomar treatment from years ago? I doubt it. I only add around 1 gallon of water a year, at most.
I know that it is against conventional wisdom. But I got a bargain and I don't need to worry about it dying for another several years. I guess my boiler, an 8-year old WM SGO-4 runs pretty clean.
Thanks for all the opinions. I'm keeping the one I removed as a backup, since it may have run another couple years, for all I know., Just doing preventative maintenance.
@ December 1, 2013 12:07 PM in Circulater for condensate loop off of steam boilerSo I should get the stainless steel version so there is no cast iron contacting the water?
@ December 1, 2013 7:53 AM in Circulater for condensate loop off of steam boilerLooking at the spec sheet for the 110, it says to use bronze for unsealed systems. But the regular model has non-ferrous impeller and bronze sleeve bearings and stainless steel shaft. Is this the correct one to buy? I see some used ones online which make it affordable.
Also, the spec sheet shows that the flange to flange measurement is 1/16" smaller than the 007.
@ November 30, 2013 3:50 PM in Circulater for condensate loop off of steam boilerUnderstanding the shortcomings, and the cost of the right circulator, is there any benefit to replace with stainless? Or should I just replace the cartridge? A bit hard to stomach the cost of the three piece circulator when the installer made it so easy to swap out what is there.
@ November 30, 2013 1:48 PM in Circulater for condensate loop off of steam boilerI have a condensate loop off my steam boiler with a Taco 007 cast iron circulator that has been in place for five year or so. I notice that the circulator is starting the make a slightly different sound and realize that the original installation should have had a bronze or stainless steel circulator. The water circulates through and Everhot heat exchanger.
I want to avoid losing heat unexpectedly and figure I should replace it with the correct circulator before it seizes. Am I being overly cautious? Can I install a stainless steel 007 with the same cast iron flanges? There is a shut-off valve on each flange.
@ July 30, 2013 8:29 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemFor reducing the flow to my baseboard loop, what is the difference between using a Caleffi QuickSetter, which obviously offers precise control versus using a partially closed ball valve? Also, I was looking at some piping charts and while 4-GPM is the norm for 3/4-inch pipe, the chart shows that the GPM capacity increases as the pipe length decreases. Using primary-secondary piping, that short 3/4-inch primary loop seems to have a capacity of 25-GPM at 12 psi. Since we may need around 6-GPM, this seems safe,
@ July 29, 2013 9:48 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemChris, in your piping diagram, are the symbols for just two tees, or a specific fitting like the Taco LoadMatch TwinTee? Dan's books on primary-secondary pumping seem to indicate that just basic Tees can be used if they are spaced less than 6-inches apart.
What do you suggest?
@ July 25, 2013 6:57 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemMaybe I am incorrect in calling it primary secondary piping. The one loop I have already, is piped like that and works great. I am adding one more loop.
As I piped it, would all the water go to the one loop with the least resistance when that loop calls for heat...which would be the baseboard loop.
Also, how close can the diverted tees be installed? Space is tight.
@ July 25, 2013 6:29 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemChris,
Just so I can understand, why would BTUs not leave the Everhot with my piping diagram pulling water from the Everhot? There are two circulators that I thought would take the BTUs away, one for each zone. I'm not challenging your design, but interested in understanding the reason. By the way, I appreciate the time you've given me on this project. This thread has become an interesting one in many ways. Do you have a preferred brand of diverter tees?
@ July 24, 2013 2:30 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemChris, The drawing does not display the circulator that feeds the hot water from the steam boiler to the heat exchanger, since that is already installed. Do I need another? if so, where?
For heat loss, the building heat loss is 75,000 BTU. The boiler is steam; WM SGO-4, with a steam rating of 108 MBH and DOE heating capacity of 144MBH. The steam radiators have a total of 461 square feet of radiation.
@ July 24, 2013 11:25 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemAttached is the final piping design, based on all the generous pros who have offered their insight. My boiler, a WG SGO-4 with a Carlin EZ-Gas has plenty of capacity, On a design day in the cold of the winter, it runs no more than 20% of the time. Our house is very well insulated and sealed from air leaks. The boiler size is based on steam radiator EDR, from the days of no insulation and leaky windows.
If anyone has any more suggestions, I would love it.
@ July 23, 2013 7:48 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemYes, this is primary-secondary piping. No radiant water is getting to the boiler .I checked the instructions for the Taco mixing valve and see that you are 100% correct. I am fixing work done by a "pro" who did not install the circulator and mixing valve as you describe.
I think I finally have all the info I need. Thanks for catching that error. I will post a new piping diagram with the final design. I'm actually going to use a plumber. I've just learned that there are plenty of people who don't truly know what they don't know.
@ July 23, 2013 7:35 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemChris:
Interesting reading. Everything I've learned has the circulator located right after the expansion tank & air eliminator. Is locating it as described in that PDF, downstream from the mixing valve flow, the normal and customary design approach? Or this this subject with much debate?
@ July 23, 2013 6:59 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemAre you suggesting that the circulator for the radiant should be to the right of the of the mixing valve on my drawing?
@ July 22, 2013 11:05 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemBtu/hr Q = GPM x 500 x Delta-Temp
26,000 BTU = GPM x 500 x 20* = GPM x 10000
GPM = 26,000/10,000 = 2.6 GPM
Everhot RH6 Specs: 35,000 BTU at 6GPM
Delta-Temp = 35,000/(6GPM x 500) = 11.66 delta temp
5GPM gives a 14* delta temp
4GPM gives a 16.5* delta temp
I'm not sure where this is going, since the Everhot specs say there is a 100* rise with 200* water.
@ July 22, 2013 9:23 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemFor the baseboard loop: 18-feet of baseboard with a heat-loss of 13,000 BTU. This room takes almost no time to warm up after a call for heat.
The radiant loop has 13,000 BTU of heat loss and four loops of Onyx under the floors
@ July 22, 2013 8:53 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemThe Everhot RH-6 is rated at 6GPM with 35,000 BTU capacity. The GPM is based on 100* rise at 200* boiler temp.
@ July 21, 2013 11:23 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemMy concern is that the present baseboard loop is very short, as in ten feet from the circulator, with twenty feet of baseboard. The radiant loop is fed by 35' feet of 3/4 pipe on the feed and on the return. So I think the water would take the shortest path if both zone call for heat, with the radiant not getting much water.
@ July 21, 2013 8:58 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemThanks for your insight. My final question is the configuration of the Tee that I will be installing. If I install it so that the flow is straight through to the present circulator, it is an easier plumbing job. My instinct tells me that the correct way is to install the Tee with the flow diverting to both ends of the Tee into elbows and then to the circulators.
Does it matter? Or is my instinct correct?
@ July 20, 2013 11:40 AM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemAttached are two piping diagrams. One is the present configuration with a single hot water loop to a baseboard zone. The second is the one that I am looking for feedback, which is the addition of a zone for the radiant zone, which presently, is running off a coroded Combicore (my second in nine years!)
@ July 19, 2013 6:51 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemThe pipe from the Spirovent is 3/4-inch. I was thinking of inserting a Tee before the circulator. The question being whether the Tee can carry the water straight through to the present loop, with the new loop as the take-off. Or would it be better to install the Tee so that both loops were connect to the Tee and an elbow. Present loop heats 9000 BTU with baseboard. New loop will heat 12,000 BTU radiant loop with separate circulator and tempering valve to keep the water temp at the correct level.
This is actually the output of a Everhot heat exchanger connected to a steam boiler. Have confirmed that the heat exchanger has plenty of excess capacity,
@ July 18, 2013 9:18 PM in Adding second hydronic loop to systemI want to add a second hydronic loop to add a zone to the heating system. Can I simply install a 3/4-inch tee before the circulator to feed the second circulator with flow-check? Or do I need to create a manifold?