Heating Help

@ April 11, 2008 10:08 AM in what's in your basement?

I have a 1 year old WM SGO3 steamer w/tankless coil that is now running at optimum efficiency thanks to all the help I received in person from Alex (WireNut), the books I read from Dan, and all the folks willing to help me on this board. Finally got around to installing my Vaporstat (12oz cut off/4oz cut in) and I feel like it's just about perfect. It's still too new for me to have any real data on oil useage, but I'm certain I'm squeezing evey last BTU out of the system. Big THANKS to all.

@ February 8, 2008 3:23 PM in Beckett Sound Cover

DOH! The NX is a burner, not a cover. I didn't know what you were referring to. Replacing a new AFG doesn't make much sense.

@ February 8, 2008 3:16 PM in Beckett Sound Cover

I didn't see the NX product on the Beckett web site. The only one they seem to have is the "sound cover".

Beckett Sound Cover

@ February 8, 2008 10:00 AM in Beckett Sound Cover

I was perusing the Beckett web site and came across this little tidbit: http://www.beckettcorp.com/product/productdetail.asp?detailid=13 While my system has been running great (knocking on wood) the new burner is pretty loud. Has anyone installed one of these with good results??

Lots of questions

@ January 31, 2008 5:33 PM in Too much water in steam system

Lots of questions on this thread. First let’s look at water return to the boiler. The very first thing I would do is make sure all of your radiators or convectors are slightly pitched back towards the steam shut off valve to allow condensate to flow back to the boiler. Make sure all shut off valves are fully open. Put a level on all of the accessible condensate lines that run back to the boiler and make sure that there is a constant pitch back to the unit so water can flow. I had a very similar issue where condensate would get trapped and she would run low on water and auto fill. Condensate would eventually return and then it would be overfilled. Finally, make sure your auto feeder is not leaking or water is not entering the boiler from another source like a tankless hot water coil with a pin hole in it. Steam pressure should be as low as possible to move the steam as quickly as possible through the system. My pressuretrol is set to the lowest cut off differential (1) and the lowest cut in (.5). When recovering from a setback she will fire for a good 20 minutes or so before building up system pressure. I replaced my 30psi gauge with a 3psi gauge so I can monitor it correctly. It will cut off between 1.5 and 2 PSI. This also assumes that the radiator air vents are working properly and allowing air out and then close when steam hits them. I replaced all of mine with new Gorton valves a few weeks ago. The mains are each vented with a Gorton #2. A vaporstat is coming in the spring with some other tasty mods. “A finely-tuned steam system will have the pressure slowly come up to 1 psig, giving time for the air to leave through the vents, then maintain the pressure by balancing the fuel input with the radiation output; hopefuly, never reaching the pressuretrol cutoff setting.” I don’t buy that. If the thermostat is calling for heat and the boiler builds pressure because the system is properly closed and sealed and hot, then it MUST cut out on pressure. The boiler will then cycle on pressure alone until the thermostat is satisfied. I love the idea that someone posted regarding a timing circuit for the pressuretrol. I had the exact same idea and found several timing circuits that could work well. Steam up; air out; water back. Words to live by. I don’t think I would live in a house without steam heat anymore.

@ January 4, 2008 3:02 PM in Cleaning pipes before insulating?

I used a shop rag dipped in simple green. Wiped down all the pipes, let 'em dry for a day and insulated the heck out of them with 1" fiberglass. Worked a charm.

@ January 1, 2008 6:11 PM in pressuretrol question

If by replaced you mean sitting in my pile of spare parts, then yes it has been replaced. I will take it under advisement. As far as temperature goes, while the boiler is at full steam ahead, I can rest my hand on the gauge/pressuretrol end of the pigtail. It stays warm to the touch and no where near hot.

@ January 1, 2008 12:32 PM in pressuretrol question

If you suspect the pressuretrol then why not simply replace it with a vaporstat? Pressuretrols on a good day have very poor accuracy and zero repeatability, at least from what I've seen. I would be more concerned with accurately controlling the pressure than spending time and energy and money diagnosing what you already suspect as faulty and has poor track record.

@ January 1, 2008 12:11 PM in Which is Wrong in New Boiler--Pressuretrol or Pressure Gauge?

http://www.gaugestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=33041

@ January 1, 2008 11:18 AM in pressuretrol question

I replaced my stock gauge with this one: http://www.gaugestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=33041

@ December 26, 2007 9:21 AM in Gurgling & Spitting Steam Radiator

You're just talking about one radiator? What about the rest of the system? If no other pipes were changed along with this rad replacement I would check the pitch at several system temperature points. On my one pipe system, the rads move slightly as the pipes expand/contract changing pitch slightly, but enough to notice on a level with my calibrated eyeballs. Once correct pitch is certain, replace the breather valve with a Gorton of correct venting capacity for the rad size/location and see where you are.

@ December 21, 2007 4:37 PM in Boiler Cleaning Concerns

Yes, I have an auto feeder bypass with ball valve that I plumbed in for skimming purposes. I set it to a trickle and the aquastat to around 180 or so and that's how I skim the unit. But the whole time I'm skimming I'm hoping the cast iron won't split in 2 from the temperature differential of the incoming water. I realize that with a trickle and the unit firing periodically there really is no severe temp difference, but I'm paranoid. That's what prompted my original question.

@ December 21, 2007 3:54 PM in Boiler Cleaning Concerns

Thanks Dave. I remember these threads and made hardcopies of most of Steamheads posts regarding cleaning and skimming. I have a tankless domestic hot water loop in the unit with easy aquastat access that makes skimming a breeze. Like you mentioned, I think I'll let it cool for a while before refilling just to be sure. Might have to wait till spring though. Folks tend to fret a bit in my house with no heat or hot water. Bunch of babies if you ask me ;)

@ December 21, 2007 2:11 PM in Boiler Cleaning Concerns

Yes, I read the manuals and service bulletins. This doesn't answer my question. Is it OK to drain and fill a hot boiler with cold water?

Hot boiler, cold water

@ December 21, 2007 11:01 AM in Boiler Cleaning Concerns

Please let me preface my question with some background information: I have a WM SGO3 steamer that was installed by the knuckleheads last May. My favorite brother-in-law Alex (Wire Nut) and I re-installed this unit correctly around Thanksgiving (that was a great day BTW) and it has been giving great steam since. I installed permanent skim fittings to make it easier to keep clean and I have skimmed this unit about 4 times so far. I drain a bit of water from each blow down valve during a steam cycle about once a week or so and clean out the sight glass and associated fittings when needed. The mains are now fully insulated with 1” fiberglass wrap and the majority of near boiler piping is as well. The system breathes through a #2 Gorton on each main and I just got all new Gorton valves for the rest of the house that will be installed over the coming holidays. Oh, and PexSupply had the Honeywell VisionPro 8000 on sale with free shipping so I got one of those too;) All convectors are pitched properly when the system is cold, but I have to re-check each one as the system comes up to temperature to make sure no one is changing pitch on me. My question is in reference to the many threads on cleaning new steamers using TSP. The water in my town is quite hard, the sight glass needs to be cleaned once a week, and the water I drain periodically from the unit is always very dirty. I thought that the addition of some TSP as a cleaning agent might be beneficial in the long run. I read Steamhead’s procedure in an earlier post and understand it, but my concern is in regards to the draining and filling of a hot boiler. This seems like a recipe for a cracked unit IMO. Heating the unit up to just before steam enters the mains, draining the water and re-filling with cold will put a good amount of stress on it. Would it be safer to wait until the unit has come down in temperature or can these boilers deal with it? Thanks for taking the time to read all this and happy holidaze to all.

@ December 16, 2007 8:08 PM in Parts Supplier--Pex Supply?

I have ordered air valves, thermostats, fittings, etc. from Pex. Never a problem and fast shipping. Got a new Honeywell Vision Pro stat overnight when shipped ground.

@ December 11, 2007 1:31 PM in Steam pressure

> Losing pressure immediately is perfect. It means
> the air vents are open. Boilers like yours start
> at 0 gauge and must return there when off.

If the vents are open, how would the system build pressure? The original poster has a system similar to mine. Boiler fires until pressuretrol cuts out at 1.5-2 psi and rapidly looses pressure, at least on the first burn. Mine does exactly the same thing and will short cycle until stat is satisfied. By the time pressure builds to .25-.50 psi, all vents are closed and all rads are hot. The remainder of the firing time on my system I see as wasted oil. It would make sense to cut out at a lower pressure and add a time delay to utilize the latent heat in the system and avoid short cycling. Has anyone done this?? Pros/cons of such a design.

@ December 11, 2007 1:27 PM in Steam pressure

> Losing pressure immediately is perfect. It means
> the air vents are open. Boilers like yours start
> at 0 gauge and must return there when off.

@ November 25, 2007 2:42 PM in Joisey Steam Update

The return drops below the water line close to the boiler, but the path the condensate takes around the basement is approx 53" high until the last 5'. See pics.

Joisey Steam Update

@ November 25, 2007 11:25 AM in Joisey Steam Update

The continuing saga of one mans quest for quiet, comfortable steam heat... Mains are now fully insulated (including fittings) with Knauf 1" fiberglass pipe insulation up to the king valves. The near boiler pipes are still naked, but will be addressed this week when the material shows up. The basement no longer becomes a sitz bath and the convectors in the house get crazy hot now. However I am still dealing with water hammer and the system takes too long to build pressure and when the pressuretrol cuts out (.5psi in and a diff of 1) around 1.5-2psi, the system looses pressure quickly (within 45 seconds) and short cycles. "Wire Nut" mentioned steam trap loops that drop from each main back to my common return to silence the hammer, but I am unclear as to what that means. I know that steam is getting into the return and pounding into the condensate that's there. Each 2" main drops to the 1 1/4" return that's about 53" high and correctly sloped back to the boiler. Close to the boiler it drops vertically. Boiler water line is at 30". Floor is uneven so these are estimates. As far as pressure drop, I think I have leaky vents. The mains are 52' on the long side 31' on the short side. I have 2 Gorton #2s on the way to replace the #1s that are there now. The only leak I can hear is the short side main vent. That gurgles slightly when the system is charged. All other convector vents appear quiet. I will likely replace each one with a new Gorton. As always, I appreciate any thoughts/comments/suggestions to aid my quest.

@ November 25, 2007 10:38 AM in Operating pressure question

I am having a similar issue with my steam system in my home. I have a 0-3 psi analog gauge and a plain old pressuretrol set to .5 cut in and a diff of 1 (the lowest possible settings). From a cold start in the morning, she will fire for a while and I can watch the pressure slowly build in the system as vents begin to close. Eventually the pressure will get up to the 1.5 psi cut off but then drop back too quickly IMO. I think I have leaky air vent(s). My mains is fully insulated (as of this past weekend) and all rads get hot. The system just doesn't hold pressure. I have 2 new Gorton #2s on the way for the mains and I will be replacing the rads with appropriately sized Gortons within the next week or so.

@ November 20, 2007 2:06 PM in Can steam mains be over-vented?

They are both 2" pipe. They add up to around 73', using my measurments for the insulation order. Keep in mind that doesn't include fittings. There are 9 convectors in the house so add in 9 t-fittings, 7 elbows, 2 unions, and 1 or 2 couplings. Not bad for off the top of my head, but you want to know the length of each run, don't you? Can't give you that until tonight.