Heating Help

Been there, seen that...

@ May 21, 2013 8:02 PM in Inspections needed on condensing boilers!

I think it has to do with the heat up cool down cycle. Have you ever seen nails that backed themselves out of a wooden post? It's not pressure from within that causes it. It is continual daily expansion and contraction that causes it. I suspect the same thing on these traps. Other than total solid vertical support, I don't think it is stoppable with current technology.

If the boiler had been serviced on an annual basis, it MIGHT have been caught prior to release. What most probably kept this from turning into a deadly situation is the fact that it was a sealed combustion appliance, pulling fresh air in from outside, and not regurgitating the byproducts of combustion which would have caused a significant increase in CO, and possibly death or devastating illness.

Good catch Tim.

ME

Lofgren case settles...

@ May 17, 2013 9:47 AM in Lofgren case settles...

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=336483

From the outside, it appears that the only losers was the Lofgren family...

"The perfect storm..."

If you go to 9news.com and put Lofgren into their search engine, you will see the timeline on this story, and it is not good...

ME

Aluminum anode rods?

@ May 7, 2013 11:21 PM in Copper pipe pitting

Hey Ron,

Many years ago, I had a conversation with a solar pioneer named Dr. George Lof. He started a company named Solaron. He's long since gone to pushing daisies from below, but he told me a story about copper pipe failures in closed loop solar systems that pertained to the collector installation crews using 5 gallons buckets as benches for cutting the aluminum support legs on their collectors, and then using the buckets to mix the glycol solution that was pumped into the system. The aluminum shavings from cutting the legs ended up getting pumped into the system, and where ever it (aluminum) came into contact with the copper would impart a few aluminum ions, which started an electrolysis process that eventually caused the pipes to pit and leak, just like yours.

Dr Lof said that in situations with oxygen, the corrosion process was even more pronounced. Maybe your aluminum anode rods are failing, and parts of it are flowing through the pipes, nearer the bottom, and imparting some ions that are causing this problem.

I've heard stories about the Washing D.C. water systems that had way to much alum (a coagulant used in the treatment of water who gets its roots from Boxite, same material aluminum comes from) in the water that would do essentially the same thing, but haven't heard or seen it in DHW systems, other than hydraulic erosion corrosion, as others have pointed out. If there is a cir return pump in the system, it could be erosion corrosion.

Next time you come across this, cut the pipe lengthwise and look at the corrosion from the inside. If there are horse shoe shaped marks, it is most probably hydraulic erosion corrosion.

If there is a tubercle on the inside of the pipe where the tubing pitted through, than it is probably the dissimilar metal corrosion.

If you want to find out for certain, mail a piece into the Copper Development Association and they will do a FREE analysis on the pipe and give you their report.

Let us know what you eventually find.

ME

Thank you Johnny...

@ May 6, 2013 11:43 AM in Mark Eatherton to lead RPA

It is people like you and companies like yours that will make and keep us successful at our mission. Very much appreciated.

ME

Thank you Paul...

@ May 6, 2013 11:41 AM in Mark Eatherton to lead RPA

Your support is VERY welcome. I look forward to working with you in "Growing Radiant".

Thanks!

ME

Thank you Dan...

@ May 6, 2013 11:40 AM in Mark Eatherton to lead RPA

It means more than we will ever be able to express. We appreciate your support and look forward to working with you in the future.

ME

Thank you all for the well wishes...

@ May 4, 2013 8:45 AM in Mark Eatherton to lead RPA

We have a long, tough road ahead of us, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it is NOT a freight train headed at us.

With you, the members, we will be strong, and productive. Without YOU, the members, we are nothing. This organization is BY the members, FOR the members to benefit the members.

If you are not a member, please do become a member. If you are a former member, watching from the back ground, get back in here, won't you, please.

We need your support.

Let's roll!!!

ME

Yo, Dave Yates...

@ April 27, 2013 9:33 AM in An interesting interview with Henry Gifford on his class action law suit agains USGBC

There's an interview with Dr. Janet Stout, expert on Legionella, that I think you might find interesting...

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/audioPop.jsp?episodeId=708418&cmd=apop


Carl and Kurt, Glad you guys found something interesting. I found Beans presentation done in 09, and as usual, he was excellent.

Check it out at iaqradio.com

ME

Protecting the health of the nation...

@ April 25, 2013 10:44 PM in National Plumber Day!

Stand proud and tall.

ME

He employs...

@ April 24, 2013 11:19 PM in An interesting interview with Henry Gifford on his class action law suit agains USGBC

common sense. Unfortunately, it isn't so common any more...

I found Robert Beans interview with Dr Tang Lee, as well as Joe Lstiburek and many others. Great listening while you work radio.


ME

An interesting interview with Henry Gifford on his class action law suit agains USGBC

@ April 24, 2013 6:14 PM in An interesting interview with Henry Gifford on his class action law suit agains USGBC

Go to iaqradio.com and scroll down until you find the interview with Henry Gifford.

Our good friend Robert Bean told me about IAQradio.com, and in fact he has done an interview there as well which I have yet to find but am still looking for it.

Henry tells it like it is, and probably hasn't made a whole lot of friends in the process.

Check it out.

ME

A possible suggestion....

@ April 16, 2013 8:08 AM in Taco Vortex

I know its not easy to implement changes on a moving assembly line, but if there were an internally machined hex recess in the bottom nipple of the vent body, wrenchnicians would be able to insert a hex (allen) wrench into the body of the threads, and facilitate full body removal. Like an "easy out", but better.

Hope for the best, but plan for the worst...


ME

It WILL be code....

@ April 15, 2013 7:53 PM in Should low temperature protection of Category 1 or 3 appliances be a code requirement?

Any jurisdiction falling under the control of the IAPMO organization will be required to conform to the requirements of the code, and this is but one of many that will be developed over the next two years for the 2015 code cycle.

If you are interested in being a part of this effort, you can either join the Radiant Professionals Alliance at www.radiantprofessionalsalliance.org or go to www.iapmo.org.

The IAPMO organization is an ANSI, open consensus process, meaning you don't have to be a member of either organization in order to affect change.

As I said, this is but one of the many changes we are proposing to the NEW 2015 Uniform Solar Energy Hydronics Code (formerly USEC), Uniform Mechanical Code, and the Uniform Plumbing code.

In those jurisdictions where the Uniform codes are not enforced, these new regulations can be adopted as "Installation Standard Guidelines". More information can be gotten at http://www.iapmo.org/Pages/CodeDevelopment.aspx

In addition to writing code, the RPA is tasked with training, certifying and re-certifucation of designers, installers and inspectors responsible for delivering this work. These are in addition to the regular, ongoing education efforts, as well as our efforts to capture more work for our organization. Our work will NEVER be completely done.

I, like you, have seen more than my share of boilers that were condensed to death, and weren't even in a situation where you'd think it'd be an issue. But it was, and it is. And the consumer gets stuck with the bill(s).

Please visit the RPA web site for more information, and thanks for asking the question.

ME

Save your 1 gallon milk jugs...

@ April 14, 2013 12:19 PM in Constant Circulation

Cut them into strips thick enough to go completely through the flooring and completely around, and overlap the pipe, and place them on the tight holes, tape them to the pipe and your noise problems associated with expansion and contraction through the floor pipe holes will disappear. THe polyethylene plastic acts as a lubricant to avoid the pipe contacting the floor and hanging up and causing the clicking and ticking.

ODR will alleviate the clicking and ticking, but will not eliminate it.

ME

This story will bring tears to your eyes.....

@ April 9, 2013 10:21 PM in This story will bring tears to your eyes.....

Pocket Tazer Stun Gun, a great gift for the wife.

A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Tazer for their anniversary submitted this:

Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest. The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket/purse-sized Tazer.

The effects of the Tazer were supposed to be short lived, with no long term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety...??

WAY TOO COOL! Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home... I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button and pressed it against a metal surface at the same time, I'd get the blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between the prongs.

AWESOME!!! Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave.

Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two AAA batteries, right?

There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul) while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target.

I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and then thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat. But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised.

Am I wrong?

So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and Tazer in another.

The directions said that:

a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant;

a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; and

a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water.

Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.

All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5" long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference (loaded with two itsy, bitsy AAA batteries); pretty cute really, and thinking to myself, 'no possible way!'

What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best.

I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side so as to say, 'Don't do it stupid,' reasoning that a one second burst from such a tiny lil ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad.. I decided to give myself a one second burst just for heck of it.

I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and...

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. WHAT THE... !!!

I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs! The cat was making meowing sounds I had never heard before, clinging to a picture frame hanging above the fireplace, obviously in an attempt to avoid getting slammed by my body flopping all over the living room.

Note:
If you ever feel compelled to 'mug' yourself with a Tazer,
one note of caution:

There is NO such thing as a one second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor!
A three second burst would be considered conservative!

A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape.

My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace.
· The recliner was upside down and about 8 feet or so from where it originally was.
· My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching..
· My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs.
· I had no control over the drooling.
· Apparently I had crapped in my shorts, but was too numb to know for sure, and my sense of smell was gone.
· I saw a faint smoke cloud above my head, which I believe came from my hair.
I'm still looking for my testicles and I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!

PS: My wife can't stop laughing about my experience, loved the gift and now regularly threatens me with it!

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

For some odd reason, I can see me doing this to myself... NOT!!!

Enjoy,

ME

Mikey...

@ March 30, 2013 9:11 AM in Bull head end of T rules/codes

Que pasa mi amigo:-)

To the best of my knowledge, and as it pertains to the plumbing code, that focus is very blurry due to the lack of using it on a regular basis, but it USE to be legal to do so. You have 70 PSI of driving force behind the water, and it WILL go where you want it to, and KEEP going there.

In a closed loop system, it USE to be illegal, but when modcon boilers were introduced, the AHJ's were SO confused, that instead of trying to educate themselves so they could tell the difference between an illegal BH tee and a primary secondary connection, they did away with the whole section in the code that addressed the BH tee situation.... Sad day in codesville in my humble opinion.

As for your next anticipated question, YES, it absolutely DOES make a difference. If bull headed, the flows will constantly keep changing, because as you remember from class, water is like my ex brother in law. Wet lazy and stupid. He MUST be show what direction to go, because if he has to make up his simple mind, it will keep changing because the pressure drops related to the circuits keeps changing as well.

The ONLY exception I allow to this rule, is in situations where the BH tee is being used to determine wether the flow goes to a DHW indirect tank, or to a space heating load. Under this scenario, the flow WILL be locked into the load (forced by dedicated prioritized pumps) and will not deviate.

To all of my friends here on the Wall, my apologies for being so thin as of late. My new positions with IAPMO/RPA is consuming my every waking hour. I knew I was in for a rough ride initially when I took this position. Hopefully, things will smooth out now.

The good news is, that we are making some fantastic progress in assembling the 8 committees that I will be charged with keeping busy and productive. We have a GREAT stable of guys (and gals) and are marching forward. This NEW RPA is going to make some indelible marks on life, good beneficial marks. Come join us won't you?

Visit the site at www.radiantprofessionalsalliance.org and click on the Committee's button and see if there a place for you at one of the tables. This group is BY the members, FOR the members. Our annual conference/meeting/education track is coming together for September 18 thru the 20th and I think it is going to knock your socks off.

Mark your calendar now and see us in Philadelphia.

ME

There is supposed to be an air elimination auto vent under the cover of the boiler

@ March 3, 2013 10:53 PM in Another satisfied customer of The Wall...

And its cap is supposed to e loose.

On occasion, they lime shut and need to be replaced.

I'd have your contractor come back and check on it, and while there, have him inject some detergent into the system to get rid of the troublesome air.

ME

Awesome more than soothing...

@ March 2, 2013 8:02 PM in Another satisfied customer of The Wall...

I agree, at first, it was soothing, but as time wore on, and the surf got louder, it was less so. If it had been rhythmic, it might have been but this was constantly changing. The locals said they had not seen surf this rough since, FOREVER...

Makes on wonder what Mother Nature is up to for sure.

What really kills me is that electricity is around $0.25/kwh on the island, and no one has ever considered harnessing the tidal energy happening here. Seems like such a waste.

I understand the native Hawaiians wishes to NOT want to place wind mills, but a good wave action hydroturbine would not even be visible from the surface.

Awesome power there.

ME

No trick really...

@ March 2, 2013 4:16 PM in Another satisfied customer of The Wall...

Just inject about one ounce of liquid detergent into your system and any free air roll right out the air elimination.

Your biggest problem is going to be getting the soapy fluid into the system. Unless you have a substantial method of pumping, either hand or electric, you may have to call a professional in to get 'er done.

The noise you describe does sound like an air problem, and it can be caused by other conditions within the system. As Kevin Copp asked, can you give more of a description of the system, and the location of pumps in relation to the expansion tank connections?

Here'a a picture of the noise I was tying to show in my last post...

ME

I'm sorry...

@ February 23, 2013 5:55 PM in Another satisfied customer of The Wall...

But heating is the last thing on my mind right now. I have this constantly changing roaring going on in my ears right now, and won't be able to properly respond for another week, until I get back to the mainland...

Radiant cooling in Kauai sounds like a potentially booming enterprise to me...

Here's the view I have been putting up with for the last 6 days, with 6 moRe days to go...

Pity me, won't you. :-).

Mahola and Aloha

ME

PS, for some unknown reason, I can't attach any pictures, so take my word for it, it's a thing of BEAUTY...

ME

Mix-spelled German conference...

@ February 21, 2013 12:02 PM in How would you control a Bumblebee circulator in a pure TRV situation?

It should be called WISH, cause you won't be seeing most of those products on this side of the pond. Too many lawyers.

But you WILL see lots of good free beer :-)

ME

I hate to say this, but (with tongue firmly planted in cheek)...

@ February 16, 2013 10:02 AM in garden hose for gas line

It's safer than CSST in a lightning storm...

I agree with others. The advent of Home Cheapo and Howe Lowes can you goes has created a flourish of crazy stuff, fanned on by supposed experts working the isles of these fine stores. I've over heard conversations in these isles that caused the hair to stand up on the back of my neck, and have actually pulled the consumer aside and corrected the information doled out by "Eddie the Expert" wearing the orange smock of pride...

I wonder what their legal billing runs per month based on issues they get thrown back at them...

BTW, I suspect that something real close to the depicted pictures is what is causing some of the gas mains in Denver to have water in them... Some people ARE crazy.

This guy was obviously a hack. If he'd have known what he was doing, he'd have used a 1/2" Female flanged hose bib and then used an automatic washing machine (double female) hose for the final connection and not needed the masking tape. Then, the Fire Department wouldn't have even realized there was an issue....

Please note that most of this was said with tongue in cheek...

ME