Joined on November 10, 2007
Last Post on March 6, 2014
@ March 6, 2014 9:22 AM in 4-zone hydronic radiant heating system4 is the supply, though I've never seen anyone put a valve on a main supply. Could also be that 3 is air bound, hence no flow.
It is entirely possible your valves are all on the supply, not the returns.
You're still missing a whole bunch of the critical parts of this system, and the drawing, though helpful, is not complete enough to connect all of the dots.
Look in closets, for small access doors. That is where manifolds are typically hidden.
In regards to your prioritization theory, possibly, but not seen in my 30+ years of looking at and working on hydronic systems. Not to say that someone (unknowing DIYer) couldn't do it, but why would they do that?
Keep looking and you will eventually find the other half of the system.
@ March 5, 2014 7:27 PM in Help!! staple-up insulation foil mythThe problem is, that the ideal conditions, as previously presented, will NOT be present in short order. Once dust gets onto the aluminum, it is virtually useless, and that generally happens within the first year.
Take your wife out to dinner on the earnest money :-)
@ March 5, 2014 1:35 PM in Got my Sorbox today.IPS. Just straight Euro thread instead of the tapered un Yankees are used to.
@ March 5, 2014 9:58 AM in Got my Sorbox today.Thanks Roger.
Tell me again about using this on systems with glycol?
I like what I am seeing. Well built, with serviceability in mind. Minimal invasion into the system when converting between cartridges.
One suggestion I would make, is that they come out with a NPT nipple set (instead of the BSP it came with) for use on this side of the pond. Most contractors don't have access to hemp based thread sealants, and will over dope the nipples with teflon, and STILL have leak issues.
If possible, they should also make the print in the instructions larger. These old eyes are having a tough time with little print these days. My arms aren't long enough :-)
Get back to me on the glycol question, as that will determine where I use it (mountains versus plains)
When will this product be available over here, and are you looking for manufacturers reps on this side of the pond to set up distribution? We don't discuss pricing on line in this venue, but if you cold send me pricing information off line in an email, I'd appreciate it very much.
I am taking mine to the mountains this weekend to let some well respected wet head associates of mine see it and play around with it.
@ March 4, 2014 5:39 PM in Help!! staple-up insulation foil mythEveryone is looking for a "good deal"… It's human nature, but it shouldn't happen at your expense.
I think your assessment is correct in that they showed up to a totally cold house, and what they saw was perfectly normal.
For the record, EVERY boiler condenses when it is first started. It is the long term condensing that causes issues, and the signs are REAL obvious. Fur growing around all of the flue pipe joints, rust falling out of the draft diverter and as others have said, onto the burner assembly.
People hire home inspectors for two reasons. One is to find the obvious (have you ever seen the release caveats these guys put into their contractual agreement???) The other is to find something POTENTIALLY wrong, so that the buyer can justify knocking your price down.
Unless you are extremely desperate, I'd tell this buyer that he is purchasing a working system "As is", and if he doesn't like it, let him walk. If he is REALLY worried about it, have him purchase a homeowners warranty plan (at his expense), like Blue Ribbon or one of the others on the market.
My $0.02 worth. Keep the change :-)
@ March 4, 2014 2:24 PM in 4-zone hydronic radiant heating systemHave someone else turn the thermostats up one at a time while you are near the zone valves observing, and feeling (carefully) with your hands.
You should be able to feel some difference (cooling first, then warming) as fluid flows through the piping. This will give you an idea as to the actual direction of flow.
I can;t identify those valves visually, so I don't know if there is an indicator showing when the valve is open versus closed. Maybe someone else can ID them.
@ March 4, 2014 1:06 PM in 4-zone hydronic radiant heating systemYes, a valve can be installed backwards, and in some cases, will BANG when closing if other zones are still calling.
Part of the confusion is that you said you have 4 thermostats in the house, which requires 4 zone valves, which is what you have.
Now, the direction of the arrows is relevant, but without seeing a full drawing of all components, it is hard to say.
I've never seen a "master" zone valve, although I can see how a DIYer might throw one in if he is realizing ghost flow due to immersed coil for DHW production, but it sounds as if that;s not your case because you mentioned a separate water heater.
I guess it is possible that two thermostats could be calling on one zone… How the comfort levels in the home? Before the accident? After the accident? Have you physically tested all zones to make certain that they function when called upon?
Let's see what you come up with in the way of a schematic before we start condemning anything/anyone.
@ March 4, 2014 11:09 AM in 4-zone hydronic radiant heating systemThe picture isn't indicative of a properly installed system. No common return back to the heat source…
You're going to have to draw it out, showing the heat source, heat emitters etc.
@ March 4, 2014 10:52 AM in Perplexing radiant floor questionIs that the ohms of resistance, or the applied voltage?
And how many square feet of active radiant surface is there?
@ March 4, 2014 12:20 AM in Perplexing radiant floor questionWatts up?
Using your digital OHM meter, what exactly is the resistance, and voltage applied?
Then you can use Ohm's law and figure out what you've got in the way of power.
Area divided by watts times 3.41 = btu/sq ft. Should be between 20 and 30 per square as a rule of thumb rough estimate.
Curious as to how you found and repaired the break in the grid?
Was this poured in gyp, or staple up or?
@ March 3, 2014 7:20 PM in Sure wish I could go to this.I will be sure and use up your quota of fun Dan :-)
Looking forward to seeing some of my old Wirsbo pals. ( I know, I got the name change memo…)
@ March 2, 2014 10:51 PM in Unequal circulators in seriesI HAVE seen it done before, although none of the pump manufacturers recommend it.
I've seen a 007 pumping into a 009.
If I absolutely had to do it, and had no other alternatives, I'd probably put the smaller pump into the larger pump to avoid the possibility of turbineing the smaller pump.
Sounds like someone screwed up and are trying to cover their collective butts.
Again, it is NOT recommended. Too many variables.
@ March 2, 2014 8:35 PM in Tom Schwarz has passed awayPartner up with Mike ROwe, teh Dirty Jobs guy.
He has a web site called MikeRoweWorks.com
He has money to give to people who are interested in getting into the trades.
Check it out. Kudos to the two of you for taking the initiative to put this together.
@ March 2, 2014 2:06 PM in Waterlogged Compression tanksSomeplace, some where in this system, usually at the top of a riser(s) there is an innocent looking automatic air vent. THAT is your source of trouble. It is allowing the cushion from the expansion tank to be expelled.
Find them, and eliminate/disable them, or as your friend said, set diaphragmatic tanks and an air eliminator and move on.
These systems are a lot simpler than one would think. If it is a bladder less tank, then NO AIR ELIMINATORS CAN BE ANY WHERE in the system.
If it is a bladder type of tank then you MUST have air elimination. Trying to cross pollenate these two very different systems never results in a good experience.
I'd almost bet that if you ask the maintenance department, they will tell you where the previous contractor installed all of the auto vents trying to get rid of an "air" problem… And he did get rid of the air problem, but now you have a water logging problem, and they are related. Putting a 50 pound relief valve on it is the LAST thing I'd recommend be done. I hope the boiler vessel is rated for that pressure, otherwise he just bought a boat load of liability.
@ March 2, 2014 12:59 PM in Legionnaires diseaseThe hotter the better, but lab tests have shown that exposing the bacteria to 130 does a good job of keeping the bacteria from amplifying.
Hospitals typically run 140 degree supply water temperatures, and will occasionally experience an outbreak at which point they do a scald sanitization flush of 180 degree F water through ALL taps, which is not only expensive from a cost of operation point of view, but also labor costs because each outlet has to be monitored by engineering/hospital staff to avoid a major law suit over scalding during the flushing process.
It has also been found that due toe stratification in a vertical tank, that electric water heaters held at 140 can still harbor the bacteria in the lower portions of the tanks.
I saw a study the other day that said that 1/2 of the water sources tested in the US proved positive for the legionella bacteria. It can not survive temperatures of less than 50 degrees F, so maybe we are looking at the wrong end of the thermal scale for eradication. Maybe as the water comes in from the street, we need to chill it down to 35 degrees F to kill off bacteria. We can use the heat from that process to preheat the DHW… It is a known fact that well water in the Northeast doesn't contain any of the bacteria. Too cold…
The bacterium is in the dirt. If your surface water source comes into contact with the dirt (i.e. surface storage reservoirs) then it is in the water too.
Kudos to you for being proactive in controlling and containing this deadly disease.
@ March 2, 2014 11:55 AM in RadiatorsIn the bottom, and out the top opposite corner from the inlet.
Low head/low flow pumps are a must,otherwise the water whips through the radiators so fast it doesn't have a chance to transfer the heat to the walls of the radiator.
@ March 2, 2014 11:21 AM in Rattling coming from baseboard heating systemCan't say as I've ever seen one screwed in there. Any port in a storm eh…
What is your operating pressure? Static (pumps off) and running.
@ March 2, 2014 11:19 AM in Hard Grey buildup in radiant systemIf they were in contact with the system water, could be they are plating out?
I've never seen it myself.
@ March 2, 2014 12:07 AM in Fire Sprinkler ProtectionIn fact, I think that it grows better because its a neutral medium and it allows oxygen into the process. I've heard that copper is fairly good at surpressing some bacteria, but it too makes bio-film-slime, which can hide and shelter the bacteria.
Where did he get his information from?
@ March 1, 2014 9:29 PM in Beating a dead horse.In looking at their I&O manual, and parts break down, I see that a person can do DHW with an internal coil (optional), but I am somewhat confused. THe coil is above the water line, in fact in the steam dome. How does one keep their house from overheating if they chose the DHW option? Or is it a seasonal preheat situation with another DHW system to top it off, or am I not looking at the drawings correctly…
@ March 1, 2014 6:34 PM in Fire Sprinkler ProtectionGlycerine as an Antifreeze
Glycerine, also known as glycerin or glycerol, is a naturally occurring sugar alcohol. Glycerine lowers the freezing point of water by inhibiting ice crystal growth. Its low toxicity makes it a common choice for weatherproofing residential and commercial fire sprinkler systems. The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) sets standards for sprinkler systems and requires that any system expected to be exposed to freezing temperatures must be protected by an antifreeze solution. NFPA code 13 requires any sprinkler system connected to a public water source must use a glycerine antifreeze solution rather than ethylene glycol to reduce the risk of poisonous chemicals returning to the water supply. In fire suppression systems containing chlorinated polyvinyl chloride (CPVC) pipes glycerine must be used as an antifreeze as ethylene glycol can corrode the plastic pipes and fittings.
Read more: http://www.ehow.com/way_5935977_use-glycerine-fire-sprinkler-systems.html#ixzz2ukyTCz8G
@ March 1, 2014 5:44 PM in Fire Sprinkler ProtectionI've seen exterior deck brush fire mitigation systems that were filled with glycerin for freeze protection, Dry systems can work, but have seen issues with them before, but have never seen a glycerin system fail, but they DO get leaks at the threads, for sure.
Check with your local fire marshall and see what his take is, because regardless of what we think about it here, their word is the final word.