Heating Help

MEGA infiltration issues...

@ January 1, 2009 10:52 AM in baseboard heater

Air blowing through a baseboard heater shouldn't affect the water side of the system and cause it to make noise. Using an incense stick, see if you can "see" where the air is entering the home. Once you find it, plug it (either inside or outside the home) and your noise, discomfort and cost of heating should get better... ME

Always, Sometimes, Maybe, EXCEPT,,,

@ January 1, 2009 10:46 AM in Therma flow Tanks

A.S.M.E. requirements may need to be met. If the tank will se temperatures above 180 degrees F, OR has a capacity of 119 gallons or greater, OR is connected to a heat source with the ability to transfer more than 199,000 btuH, then it is supposed to be A.S.M.E., which you will find stands for A Substantial Monetary Exchange... Exceeding any ONE condition requires compliance in multi family or commercial dwellings. As for sizing, I'd recommend you use one of the manufacturer's sizing programs (I prefer RayPak) and size accordingly. Remember, the heat source is only as good as the driving forces... ME

The LOAD side of the HXer....

@ January 1, 2009 10:39 AM in ? on snow melt

is where you are supposed to be seeing 140 degree F water, not the boiler side. Also, check the operating pressures on the load side of the system. WIth viscous fluids, NPSH becomes even more critical. If the pressure gets too low, the pump may struggle moving cold, thick fluids. THere is also a possibility of bacterial fowling of the FPHX, which affects not only flow, but also heat transfer. ME

You need...

@ January 1, 2009 10:32 AM in System pressure and efficiency

1/2 PSI pressure at the boiler for each foot fo vertical elevation, PLUS 5 PSI to keep it from boiling on top. THere is no real corelation between water pressure and efficiency provided you follow the above guidelines. Your decrease in fuel consumption has more to do with the boiler working longer cycles as it gets cooler outside. NO leak is a good leak.... ME

Could be a multitude of issues...

@ December 31, 2008 8:51 PM in High Altitude Draft Issues

Try opening a door to the outside when you are trying to light a wood fire. Once lit, and draft established, the gasifier fan should be able to maintain and enhance draft. The LP burner may be seeing a back draft condition that is causing the burner flame to snuff. Make darned sure you have a spill switch at the outlet (inlet) of the barometric damper. There are numerous manufacturers of omni directional vent caps that will (theoretically) avoid any down draft conditions. ME

That reminds me of a story...

@ December 31, 2008 8:39 PM in Trouble getting flow up to Garage

Many years, working for Dave Strong of Radiant Floors, we did a job for a semi DIYer, who was hiring out the work she was not qualified to do, including plumbing and heating. When it came time to do the flue, the plumber had run his hot and cold water lines DIRECTLY across the small area we were required to put our B vent in to. We cut his lines, and installed our B vent. I asked my guys to re-connect, and offset his water lines, but they didn't get to it before we left the job. Fast forward 3 months. Consumer calls and complains that she has no heat in her bedroom. Send crew #1 up, they can get water to flow backwards through the zone, but not forwards. Send crew # 2 up with a larger pump, and they run in to the same thing. I finally go up, and try the same thing (system had glycol in it) and get the same results. System was fairly simple. Boiler, 1 pump and 4 zone valves. I finally break down and unsolder the zone valve serving the bedroom and find that the plumber had unsoldered our pipes and dropped the small rubber insert that came in the end of his water heater gas valve in to our pipe... So, I removed said blockage, refilled the system, and everything was working great. I then took the door off of his stand alone water heater, and reach as far inside the heater as I could with a pair of channel lock pliers, and pinched the pilot tube shut on his water heater... A year later, the H.O. called me and asked me to do a public speaking engagement for a non profit college, and her topic was "DIY home building". I agreed to do so. As she was speaking about how to avoid pitfalls, she told the story of her poor plumber, whom she had to call out because she had no hot water after she moved in. He replaced the thermocouple, to no avail. He replaced the gas valve, to no avail. He finally had to completely replace the whole water heater to get her hot water. On a SATURDAY to boot. After the seminar, I pulled her to the side and told her the REST of the story. She laughed so hard I thought she was going to cry. Mess with the Bull, and you will get the HORN.... ME

Try...

@ December 31, 2008 8:13 PM in Ener jee By-pass Valves

Uncle Bud Norberg at Hydronic Sales in Englewood Colorado 303-781-9559 If they're still available, he can find them. Have also seen them in the Oventrop catalog, and I suspect they were making them for Enerjee. ME

bob...

@ December 30, 2008 7:56 AM in zone valves for constant circ system

Have you never read Dan's book where he says to NEVER work for relatives, the church, or your own system? Are you enjoying your retirement? Are you in Colorado? ME

That's why we have swing joints...

@ December 30, 2008 7:50 AM in Flexible pipe for steam?

Cumbersome, but effective and will last a LONG time. I'm sure there are some stainless steel/rubber flex components out there, but life expectancy is short. And then there is the operating temperature issue... ME

Smart woman...

@ December 30, 2008 7:46 AM in Not So Sucky Mod Con Efficiency (Post Service) ME

She has YOU for a contractor, doesn't she ?;-) Most consumers are a lot more attentive than we give them credit for, and some are more boisterous than others. ME

Tim...

@ December 30, 2008 7:44 AM in Not So Sucky Mod Con Efficiency (Post Service) ME

This is an area that requires a lot of research, not just in the modcon arena, but also the conventional and mid efficiency markets. I have personally tested some copper gas appliances (Italian job) and found that there was absolutely no co-relation between combustion efficiency and thermal efficiency. In todays world, there are too many untrained technicians walking around with instrumentation that gives them a "number", and they have no idea what is required to get to that particular number, or how many different combinations can be used to get to the same (Stoichiometric) number. I'm fairly certain that Jim Davis will chime in here :-) I have instructed my field technicians to turn that function off whenever possible, and if not possible, to ignore whatever pops up. One of these days, when I have LOTS of time on my hands, I want to do some thermal performance testing and combustion testing, just to show people how little those numbers (combustion efficiency) really mean as it pertains to thermal efficiency. I hate to be the one who has to point out that the emperor has no clothes, but someone has to do it. Maybe I should call Myth Busters and have them do a segment eh... Boy, would THAT put people to sleep :-) The IMPORTANT things, are, 1. What happens to the oxygen content (burner efficiency in oxidizing fuel and oxygen and converting to useable heat) 2. How much excess air is in the process (carrying off paid for light and heat) 3. How much CO is present in the fuel stream (unburnt, paid for fuel and potential future fowling). The biggest problem is that most field techs STARE at the "combustion efficiency" number, and DON'T pay attention to the important details. If you ae one of those tech's that are reading this, the best advice I can give is to get yourself in to a qualified class (Jim Davis, Tim McElwain or Rudy Leatherman come to mind) so that you will KNOW what it is that you are looking at, and what adjustments you can safely make to change those numbers and bring them in to compliance. It's more of a a science than an art.. and the need for education was never greater. ME

Back at ya...

@ December 30, 2008 7:08 AM in HAPPY NEW YEAR

09 is going to be an interesting year, to say the least... ME

Burnham Le Fleur

@ December 30, 2008 7:04 AM in cast iron radiators- new who makes em?

comes to mind, and there are a number of other (O.C.S.) manufacturers out there. Freight is killer... ME

Brad...

@ December 30, 2008 6:49 AM in Magnets

What, if anything, have you seen the magnets trap in your system? My presumption is that you have older column cast iron type radiators on line? If not, what? ME

How many?

@ December 29, 2008 10:37 PM in for the pros!

How many simultaneous showers, at what flow rate and how large of a washing machine? I think what Greg L was trying to get at is that the flow through the water heaters has to be equal, or the extra heater won't help much. I'd recommend they be piped parallel reverse return so they both see equal draw and equal output. Even that will only work right if both heaters are the same size (BTUH and Gallons). ME

We agree on that Brad...

@ December 29, 2008 10:32 PM in for the pros!

IN fact, my brother, who makes a living installing thankless water heaters, sez in many cases with teens, the consumers gas bill goes UP, not down, and it is as you said, teen wasting syndrome. He and I have had numerous discussions whereby of the shower lasts for more than 10 minutes, an automatic program kicks in, lowering the thankless' set point until it is shut off. Shutting the thankless off resets the timer. Could be a patent in there somewhere :-) Remember me in your will. ;-) ME

I vote for the 4 way valve, Tekmar control...

@ December 29, 2008 9:54 PM in Radiant floor heating help

and a small circulator for the boiler will get you protection for the floor, protection for the boiler and what ever minimal fuel savings that can be realized with the equipment you have at hand. It has been a long while since I have had to spec a tekmar control, but I think this one will suffice. http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/prod/360.shtml Pipe it and wire it like this. http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/literature/acrobat/a360.pdf ME

Good for you!!!

@ December 29, 2008 9:44 PM in Health Up-date - Alan R. Mercurio

We'll be thinking about you and pulling for you to recover fully so you can continue to do the work you do, helping others. Thanks for al YOU do. ME

Tough call...

@ December 29, 2008 9:40 PM in Number of service calls per day

One never knows for sure what all he's going to run in to in the field. The consumer has it in their mind what needs to be fixed (relief valve replacement) but when the technician gets in to the system, he finds a failed expansion tank, a failed pressure reducing valve, and a defective pressure gauge and NO isolation... Gotta drain the system and refill and purge and make sure everything is working before you leave. What SHOULD have been a 1 hour service call turns in to a 3 hour service call, and every other job that was pre-scheduled is going to have to be re-scheduled. And it is very expensive to have to go back to finish the job, especially when they had everything they needed, except time, to get the job done right the first time. Maybe you should consider having a central dispatcher, who schedules the work around certain "windows", and then have him/her keep in touch with the service techs and if one of them does get in over his head, have the dispatcher send someone else in their stead, or call the consumers and let them know the tech ran into unforseen circumstances, and will be running late, and that you will call them an hour before he will be able to get there. Most people understand. The nature of service work is that is is completely unpredictable. One has to be flexible in order to do a good and thorough job. Running back to finish the job is killing you, economically. Your locale may preclude the possibility of one guy covering for another due to lay of the land, but you still have to be somewhat flexible. Just my $0.02 worth :-) ME

I'd try...

@ December 29, 2008 9:25 PM in Steam stumper, need input...

turning it DOWN (pressure) first... Maybe the gauge is bad and you have 5 pounds instead of .5 pounds, and the traps are having a problem opening against that pressure. Just a guess on my part. ME

Actually....

@ December 29, 2008 9:05 PM in gravity conversion piping

Your typing skills are just fine. It's my reading and comprehension skills that need tightened up. I was reading the Boiler Counter Flow Piping thread right before I read this thread and confused the two of them. My apologies. I also understand that not everyone can afford my services, and do not profess to close every job I see. I'm just trying to do the right thing, and understand that the right thing is not in everyones budget. Nor is my view of the right thing the same as everyone else's. ME

Match demand...

@ December 29, 2008 9:12 AM in for the pros!

and before you can match demand, you are going to have to first determine what the demand consists of. Is it simultaneous shower loads, compounded by machine loads (dish and clothes washers)? Is it a LARGE single dump load compounded by simultaneous or back to back shower loads... Once you figure out what your loads are, you can match them with storage (dump load) and or recovery capacity. You have to ask the consumer what their expectations are, and tell them to be reasonable. Having 5 shower heads running al at the same time is rediculous. Have some load diversity, will ya :-) If they DEMAND that you be able to cover all five running at the same time, then the golden rule kicks in. "Those that have the gold, make the rules." Tell them to get their check book ready for pocket shock. And by all means, consider alternative energy whenever possible. Get back to us once you've determined load factors and we can help you configure a system that will efficiently meet the consumers wishes, wants and needs. ME