Heating Help

waking up with hissing

@ May 18, 2012 9:18 AM in Looking for a Steam expert in NYC

i think if you put on a good low-pressure gauge, you will see that the venting back-pressure is too high, as the main vents must be inadequate. this is forcing all the air out the radiator vents, making the hissing you describe.
find your main vents, and check/increase them, and keep the vaporstat/pressurestat set as low as it will go!--nbc

Is this why we make fun of engineers

@ May 17, 2012 7:52 AM in Is this why we make fun of engineers

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679782/a-simple-solution-for-making-dumb-radiators-part-of-a-smart-home?utm_source=May+17%2C+2012&utm_campaign=Email+Newsletter+Analytics&utm_medium=email

This nice piece from dans newsletter shows how the knucklehead engineer mind works:
His solution is not to make the system work as effectively as it once did, but instead to modify the symptoms of faulty maintenance. If this fellow owns a car, what would he do if the brakes were dragging, put in a bigger engine?--NBC

Appliance forum

@ May 15, 2012 11:40 PM in Pumping Out A Non-Working Dishwasher

http://fixitnow.com/kitchen-appliance-repair-help/dishwasher-repair-faq/

NBC

2-pipe rads

@ May 15, 2012 9:30 PM in Radiator rating

The edr will be the same as a conventional 1-pipe radiator.
I certainly echo steamhead's advice in saying the pressure should be "vaporstat-low".
Make sure the main venting is generous enough for the air to escape at a low 2 ounce back-pressure.--NBC

Facilities energy management

@ May 15, 2012 6:07 AM in Facilities energy management

Has anyone seen this in use?--NBC

http://www.pnl.gov/feds/pdfs/feds_6-0_overview.pdf

heating in the big house

@ May 10, 2012 7:12 PM in Cell Block Heating

it looks like the steam goes first to the top floor, and then downfeeds the lower floors. probably was not as well maintained, and vented as it should have been, which is why the top floor was warmest.--nbc

Dissimilar metals causing problems?

@ May 9, 2012 11:55 PM in Copper to steel/iron in a closed loop system

I think the greatest problems may have come about when galvanized pipes were connected directly to copper with no transition fitting. The reaction of zink and copper could be stronger than that of straight iron and copper.
Here is my new theory on the subject: early electric systems were grounded mainly through the water pipes, and if the neutral had a problem, then there would have been a flow of current through the pipes, resulting in an increase in corrosion. Naturally the copper-iron connections would be blamed first.--NBC

Dual boiler installation

@ May 8, 2012 10:50 AM in Installation Plan - dual steam

This link is for a 211a,, but the piping should be the same, page 20-22:


http://peerless.ag-is.com/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?EntryId=85&PortalId=0&DownloadMethod=attachment


Probably, the active boiler pressure blew water into the inactive one, and ran dry, but then why did the lwco not function?--nbc2

Trance valves

@ May 8, 2012 7:16 AM in Trane Vapor System?

Put a good low-pressure gauge (gauge store.com, 0-3 psi) on that system, and see if the pressure can be kept as low as possible(ounces?). Until there is a proper main vent on there, the combination of high pressure, and bad venting could force water up into the returns, each time triggering the auto/over-fill to activate.
Those valves are probably adjustable so that at maximum opening, they will only let in the small amount of steam which can be condensed. Summertime will be a good time to take the valve apart and restore it.
Why not turn off the auto/over-fill, and see if the waterline stabilizes, after fixing the leaky return.-NBC

Steam in Florida

@ May 8, 2012 12:24 AM in Unique Steam Radiators

Yes they do need heat. If the citrus groves can get frozen, then so can the guests.
When I was in Boca Grande Fla, I saw one pipe steam radiators in the Gasparilla inn, and I hope that the system was working properly.
Naturally, it is even more important to have good main (not rad) venting, with a low back-pressure, in a heating system like that where a quick response is needed. (at night).
It was not cold enough when we were there to see how well the system was working.
There must have been, or still are some competent steam men in Florida!--NBC

.....That is the question

@ May 3, 2012 12:33 AM in Treasurer-Condo Assoc

It must be hard to be on the condominium board to begin with, and then to be delegated a job which may require study and consideration outside of one's normal thoughts.
Especially difficult is getting advice from those in the profession associated with the problem area, and hearing different advice about various routes to follow.
I am sure that you may follow this advice, and therefore be in a better position to advise your board how to proceed:
Get a quote from a qualified steam professional for restoring the present system you now have to it's former stat of operation-silent, economical, and comfortable. Then you can compare that cost to that of ripping everything out and replacing all the pipes, and radiators, and boilers, therefore starting afresh.
Certainly each form of heating has its pluses, and minuses, but as you already have an existing system in place, which only needs to be brought up to scratch as far as basic maintenance; I think the board would vote in favor of keeping what you have when restored, --nbc

bad smell

@ May 1, 2012 11:53 AM in Steam boiler making bad odors?

i would change the water first, and immediately boil the new water to drive out the oxygen.
have you put anything other than water in the boiler? ask the manufacturer what is recommended for cleaning. peerless suggests arm&hammer washing soda, which is effective but gentle.--nbc

steam problems

@ May 1, 2012 11:48 AM in Treasurer-Condo Assoc

i suggest that you get a competent steam specialist in for a second opinion, as i would say that the cost of re-piping/new hot-water radiators/boiler, etc will be much more than simply fixing what you have.
there is less difference between the operating costs of well-functioning steam, and hot water than you might think, especially when the cost of pumping is taken into account.
if you have noise and discomfort with your present system, then it is not functioning correctly!  the original owner of the building would not have accepted anything less than quiet, comfortable efficiency! your job is to return the system to its original state of operation, and we are here to help! have a look at the "find a contractor" section here, and do not use the zip code feature, but search by state.
a real pro will measure the radiators in the building to see if the boiler is sized properly for the radiation of the building, and then see what burner adjustments might be more suitable, including modulation of the burner.. he will verify that the main venting is able to allow the air to escape at a mere 2 ounces of back-pressure, and will make sure your system operates on only ounces of pressure.
he will check your control system/thermostat for correct operation, and location.
this will be much cheaper than the cost of going to hot water. in the meantime, post some pictures of the boiler piping, and of the radiators and valves.--nbc

Old church systems

@ April 21, 2012 7:23 AM in Hacked up two pipe vapor system....

There are no condensing boilers for steam systems, and conversions of 2-pipe steam are not recommended, without new piping, and maybe new radiators as well.
Is there some easy piping route between the 2 buildings so one boiler could do double duty supplying steam for one building, with a hot-water loop for the other?
Pictures of the present piping will be very helpful, to determine what sort of problem caused the 2 sections to rot out (constant makeup water/thermal shock?).
If there are not many steam/hydronics experts in the are, then the maintenance needed for the condensing boiler will not be regularly, or competently performed. A resectioned, or replacement boiler should have a 30-40 year life span ahead, if it has been properly installed, and maintained--NBC

Water returns slowly

@ April 19, 2012 9:39 AM in Piping on one pipe boiler

Either the condensate returns slowly, or
The pressure may be too high forcing water up into the returns during firing, or
The supply piping may be incorrect, flinging water up into the mains.
When it first fires, observe the waterline and see if it drops fairly quickly, as it steams, indicating a piping/pressure problem. For monitoring the pressure, do not rely on the mandatory 0-30 psi gauge, but instead install an additional 0-3 psi gauge, on the same pigtail as the pressuretrol. Some pictures of your piping posted here would be worth a thousand words --NBC

Working fine?!?

@ April 18, 2012 1:03 PM in Boiler put in wrong 3 years ago - Do they owe me?

If I had a new boiler, and it would require 4.5 psi to make it work, I wouldn't consider paying until the boiler operated at 2 ounces , with no spitting.
You may have replaced the vents, but are they large enough? The radiator vents should be small, like Hoffman 40's, and the main vents should be gorton 2's. A 0-3 psi gauge should register 2 ounces or less during the initial startup, as air is escaping. In your case you are burning a lot of extra fuel to push the air out of the way.
I suspect that a lot of water is being sprayed up the small risers into the mains, and then can be sprayed out the radiator vents. What the higher pressure does, is to close the vents off, sometimes permanently!
If I were the contractor, I would feel obliged, as steamhead says to make it right, even so long after the installation; but alas there are not many like him!--nbc10

spitting and carrying on

@ April 17, 2012 6:05 PM in Boiler put in wrong 3 years ago - Do they owe me?

what exactly are these symptoms of spitting and carrying on?
one reason the pressure was set so high could have been due to bad main [not radiator] vents. this causes the fuel company to sell you more fuel, so the air can be forced out of the constipated little openings of the radiator vents, [was the boiler installed by the fuel company?].
see how they react to a letter pointing out the inconsistencies of the piping with the mfg's instructions, and see if they will make some sort of an offer to redo their mistake.--nbc

Attic space

@ April 16, 2012 11:11 AM in Supplemental Heat for Sealed Attic

Try a mini-split heat pump. (Mitsubishi mr. Slim, and other makes).--nbc

Try this first

@ April 16, 2012 11:08 AM in Steam vs hydro air for allergies

I am presuming that your system is one-pipe, and not two-pipe
Are your radiator vents hissing a lot during heating? If so, then they may be expelling more than their fare share of the air in the system, due to the inadequacy of the main vents. Put a few gorton #2's in place of each of the vents you now have. The result would be that most of the air in the system will escape into the boiler room as the system is starting up.
Was the boiler ever properly cleaned and skimmed, after its installation, or have any chemicals been added. Only pure water, with no additives should be used in a steam system, unless there is a specific water chemistry problem to overcome, and even then pure water should be chosen out of preference.
A good low-pressure gauge will show you if the pressure is too high while running, which elevates the radiator surface temperatures above the levels of comfort.--NBC

Capacious venting

@ April 16, 2012 7:01 AM in Can you have too much main venting?

The way I know that my 18 gorton 2's (on six dry returns) are adequate is by seeing the back-pressure of venting as the boiler is starting to make steam. I have a 0-15 ounce gauge, and vaporstat. During this venting stage, the pressure is below 1-2 ounces, showing me the lack of resistance to the escape of the air in the pipes, and boiler steam chest.
On the rads are Hoffman 40's except for the 3rd floor where I have some gorton d's. The hoffman main vent is well made, but expensive for the capacity I would need..
In your case with the property so far from you, it would be better to have more main venting than you first calculate, and verify its operation with the low-pressure gauge. The tennant or caretaker can also monitor the system in this way, as well as reading the water meter on the auto-fill. In my case, being next to the boiler, I have no aut- feed, as I feel they are a source of problems, especially for those boilers running at higher pressures.--NBC

Springtime for the mod-cons

@ April 14, 2012 10:34 PM in Not always mod/con

The milder periods of winter are probably the time of greatest fuel savings for mod-cons, as the outdoor reset will keep the water temperature just high enough to take the chill off.
I imagine that the proposal would consist of a list of equipment to be installed, with no installation specifics other than a general description of the end result--lower fuel consumption, greater comfort, and quicker response etc.--NBC

Fixing the old steam system

@ April 14, 2012 10:25 PM in Converting one pipe steam to two pipe hot water radiator

If you choose a new gas boiler, which has been correctly sized to the load(edr), with insulated main pipes, installed as the mfg. specifies,
And install extremely generous main (not rad) vents, whose capacity is verified by a low 2 ounce back-pressure(gauge store.com 0-3 psi), during the initial phase of venting,
and you have a thermostat properly set up for steam, and correctly located,
Then you can wait to see if you need any trv's at all.
Do a search here for "set back", and you may decide not to have much set back at all, after reading all the posts.--NBC