Heating Help

sizing

@ May 24, 2012 7:59 AM in Gas Pipe Sizing

Using 30 ft, if that's your longest run, a one inch black pipe will handle 285 k that would be over sized by 1/3...I install, service and repair these units...That's big enough....A properly sized system will work fine every time..As   far as 3/8 I really have never used it, however its in my code book and they do sell it, at my supply house,,I  don't use csst but I do see it is listed on there sales sheet...That said I would think someone uses it,,that is why I sized it that way..I have no idea where you live...Trust your plumber, as long as he is licensed and files all the proper permits...j a

correction

@ May 23, 2012 7:34 PM in Gas Pipe Sizing

12  inch to furnace not water heater   Sorry

correction

@ May 23, 2012 7:34 PM in Gas Pipe Sizing

12  inch to furnace not water heater   Sorry

SIZE

@ May 23, 2012 7:30 PM in Gas Pipe Sizing

Based on the info as I interrupt it ,your first size  manifold off the meter will be 1 1/4....If you were to use the home run method its a 1 inch to the water htr  1/2 in to water htr and range and 3/8 in to dryer....This is not to be used as the exact answer as I will leave that to your installer...Sizing,, once all is measured, takes approx less than one minute to figure out...Work backward it becomes simple.  j a

sizing

@ May 23, 2012 4:13 PM in Gas Pipe Sizing

Hello   It is the installers responsibility to make sure you have enough gas available to support your new load...He will call the local gas company and find out what is coming into the property and how long that run is...Often the engineering part if the gas supplier will do a work sheet based on the info your fitter gives you...If your size or pressure is incorrect do not install the added appliance, until it is...It will not work as required...Gas company installs up to the meter bar...
From there your fitter takes over with doing the inside fit.. He can use a couple of different sizing methods based on his design procedure..Often years back we over sized in low pressure areas....If you have a regulator before your meter you are in a high pressure area...that is good....Don't know the make or model of what you are installing but they normally spec out around 185 k at peak load...Tell us what you have for gas appliances and we can give you what size the gas pipe should be at the outlet of the meter....The more info the better....Hope this helped

condensing boilers and copper baseboard

@ May 13, 2012 3:13 PM in gas boilers, which would you pick?

I am wondering, what others think about the use of condensing boilers in copper fin tube applications....Is there any particular way to prevent short cycling without adding any expensive external additions such as a buffer tank...I f so I am very interested,,To me short cycling is what must be overcome...If someone has 3 zones in a residential home this size it does not seem possible, to me....Assuming the baseboard is/ was installed using the proper standard practices...Here in the city I see very little copper, mostly is gravity systems converted twice over..Gravity systems love condensers, just not sold on copper applications,and how a condenser will save them 50 percent...Could be wrong but I don't think so...,.

questions

@ May 13, 2012 7:24 AM in gas boilers, which would you pick?

1   Inside or outside chimney and what size flue?
2  Do you currently have gas in your home, if so what size is your riser...The pipe from point of entry to the meter bar..
3  How many sq. ft is the area your boiler is located in?
4  If you do have gas, and heat your hot water with it, are you going to be orphaning the water heater?  This could be a chimney issue..if you do go, sealed combustion,be it power or direct vent..Installer will help you
 Years ago your only choice was, what color boiler you wanted...As you can see today is different....So much comes into play, such as do you plan on finishing  your basement or do you use it as a workshop...etc etc....As far as boiler size a proper whole house heat loss is all you need done.  your heat loss seems a bit high,pick the size closest to the heat loss,go slightly up but don't cheap out and go down, it will,cost you more, in the end...Any boiler you pick comes with its own issues, and requires, in Massachusetts a licensed plumber to install it...with a permit.and a licensed electrician to wire it  ..just an FYI....
     It is solely my opinion, based on my personal experiences and readings that you are not a good candidate for a condensing boiler...Copper fin tube baseboard and condensers are not the greatest mix..Although others may offer different opinions, and that's fine There are  ways around it but it just does not seem worth it, to me,.buffer tanks are an option for one...Don't get hung up on rebates...As with any boiler you pick the near boiler piping is of the up most importance   .Be sure to ask your installer, as many questions as you can, the only dumb question, is the one not asked...If he stumbles, on his answers or says he will get back to you, consider someone else...Check him/ her out on the BBB or by other means....The BBB has a great list of things to look for, in your selection...Hope this helps 

I=B=R GUIDE

@ May 12, 2012 10:09 AM in boiler feed on or off?

In your I=B=R guide on page 3-19 upper left corner is a take on prvs...I remember going over that in my class some years back......there was a mild discussing about them..I do notice that the most common prv in my area at this time is one that has a 15 psi limit I believe.. presently when I do install a condensing boiler the class instructor and the book say the optimal static pressure is 17-18 psig for this particular boiler...So the standard one sold in most supply house boiler trim kits wont work...I think.  Times and so many changes have occurred in our industry over the past few years...Science does not...Now if I can pass the math test below and only press the button once I will be happy...ja

agreeed

@ May 11, 2012 11:44 AM in boiler feed on or off?

I as well am a firm believer, leave it off....In fact, that, was discussed in detail here quite some time ago....I also agree leave it open for a few days if you like..As well its my understanding cold non circulating water is the best way to remove air..It is a closed loop system, much like that of a cars cooling system, excuse the analogy,you don't drive around with a hose attached to it...You just check it as required....I also cant quote the page in the IBR guide at this time but it as well recommends keep it closed...30 years installing mainly steam and hot water..and that's my two cents...Oh and I love low water cutiffs, very comforting....to me    j a

thanks

@ May 8, 2012 11:10 PM in conversion burners

The great thing about this site, is we all get the opportunity, to express our opinions...Hopefully we all learn something...I did.....This site, covers such a huge area,its near impossible, for all to agree, on what is right, or wrong, when it comes to code issues..enough said......Leave that for the powers to be...However, when it comes to the homeowner,who has basic theory questions about his/her  heating system, and is looking for answers, be it steam, hot water or whatever there is no better site.  I come on here to learn, and  help out ,if I can, don't you? I learn every day...

not for me

@ May 8, 2012 7:10 AM in conversion burners

Thanks for your input...It is my opinion,conversion burners are not a viable option...Legality, safety , and  cost....Use the appliance for its intended use...oil for oil gas for gas....Keep it simple...Why do you ask if use a digital combustion analyzer?  One should always go by the book, at a minimum,don't you agree?

re snowmelt

@ May 6, 2012 6:56 AM in Incorporating snowmelt into new stairs?

Just this past winter I had a great opportunity to meet a new customer who asked me to install his recently purchased condensing boiler  and attach it to a already installed snow melt system, very similar to yours...At first I wanted no part of it, due to several reasons, one, it was not my boiler of choice, and two, I did not install the underground piping...Long story short, I did it and loved every minute of it,  it was fun to walk around with my digital thermometer and check ground temps....Sadly enough It never snowed enough to really watch it in action...This homeowner really did his homework, I have been installing heating boilers for 30 years and never once for just a snow-melt system. it was awsome..I will ask him tomorrow if its o k to contact him, I am sure it will be.....He is a great guy...That's the nice side of this business, we meet nice people....

conversion burners

@ May 6, 2012 6:13 AM in conversion burners

Sure anyone in the heating business has the mechanical ability to install a conversion burner, or at least I hope so....otherwise maybe they are not really,, in the heating business...I think about conversion burners only because I am asked about them....Then I think of good and bad reasons/questions why I would or would not install one here in my state...I am, open minded...
1   Do the top three boiler manufacture companies, authorize conversion burners? Will my warranty sill be intact?
2    Will my insurance company need to be notified, and accept this change?
3    Will my gas supplier guarantee me, a minimum of 5 in. w/c?
4    What about the chimney, I am changing fuels?
5    Will my efficiency change, or just the cost of fuel?
6    Is it now in compliance with local authority having jurisdiction, as a listed, and approved appliance?  Will they accept the installation instruction manual left on site with a supplement, unless approved?
7    Gas company sent me a letter stating cost of a new boiler is xyz, should I convert,,and you tell me the cost to purchase a conversion burner is xyz, why more?
8    You  did a heat loss and tell me my heat loss is 65k btus, that boiler down there says 140 k input, is that  o k ?  Will you be able to change the manf. plate to  state any changes ,so when I sell, Mr. Home inspector does not tell buyers bolier is not sized correctly?
9  Can I expect the tankless to still supply me the same amount of hot water?
10   You say I can convert back should prices change, How long will the local fire department let me store that oil tank YOU disconnected? It still has oil in it...

yes they do

@ April 19, 2012 6:28 AM in Boiler put in wrong 3 years ago - Do they owe me?

Hello,  In my opinion that is not a small mistake,and if they cant do it right the first time then they cant do, PERIOD...If I  were to pay someone a few thousand dollars to install a boiler in my home I would expect and demand it to be, at a minim, installed by the book....If that installer has to open the book and sit there and scratch his head, then get on the phone and start calling tech for help on a simple install then he should not be out here, taking peoples hard earned money.....I would call that company/.moonlighter and demand  he pay for a real heating contractor to reinstall that boiler correctly....I don't mean to sound so harsh, but we see this more often than not....As a homeowner please do some homework prior to hiring someone to install something in your home that has the ability to really cause you serious problems....Almost all manufactures offer training on there products...As well,  this site has great tools for the new, and old timers to keep updated on products.....they install.....When it comes to steam there is no better site.....Prior to hiring someone I  suggest get a list of 5 basic questions about what they about to install and see if they can answer them all, in detail,and if they cant I suggest tell them to move on....Thanks

relay

@ April 16, 2012 7:07 AM in Baseboard Heating

If the system circular is running, all the time I would check for a closed thermostat circuit,if that's o k then look for a stuck relay...Both conditions would be a constant call for heat and your boiler will be running....If it only runs a a call for domestic water then your problem will be related to, as suggested flow check,or zone valve

bypass

@ April 11, 2012 6:58 AM in Gravity conversion protecting boiler

Hello   The systems i come across are almost exclusively once converted gravity systems here in the city...I have always had good luck using a boiler bypass piped exactly like the burnham manual shows..Once you get it up to temp. you can play with the valves and watch the temp fluctuate,some call it a poor mans outdoor reset....Also  make sure you use a high flow low head pump,and consider letting the pump run at all times especially during the deep cold season...Some may agree and some may disagree But I can tell you, it works....BEST OF LUCK

bypass

@ April 11, 2012 6:58 AM in Gravity conversion protecting boiler

Hello   The systems i come across are almost exclusively once converted gravity systems here in the city...I have always had good luck using a boiler bypass piped exactly like the burnham manual shows..Once you get it up to temp. you can play with the valves and watch the temp fluctuate,some call it a poor mans outdoor reset....Also  make sure you use a high flow low head pump,and consider letting the pump run at all times especially during the deep cold season...Some may agree and some may disagree But I can tell you, it works....BEST OF LUCK

great info

@ March 15, 2012 8:27 PM in Peerless PureFire Important FYI!

One of the reasons I enjoy this site is getting info like this...It just so happened I was doing a normal yearly service on a mod/con today...First thing I did was observe...And what I found was the flue sensor removed and just dangling,access door was open...Went on with my normal procedure but could not help but notice the corrosion build up inside the cabinet, at first I thought it was a overheat condition...and actually still did until I came upon your so very help-full posting...I  did infom my customer about the sensor being removed, and he was very concerned and started asking a lot of questions about the possible effects of the flue gas's into his home...I did not want to go there so I talked around it...I was there to service the unit...This was not a peerless...but similar...

wiring

@ October 8, 2011 7:48 PM in Burnham Independence

I suggest, check the wiring ..good luck

sizing

@ September 9, 2011 7:03 AM in venting

Hello  I was wondering, if you were to up size off the draft hood and that was the only appliance venting into the chimney, what size would you use for the 7 times rule....My understanding is nfpa 54 2002 says size off the draft hood diameter...I look fwd to your answer....

I agree

@ August 28, 2011 5:37 AM in cast iron baseray baseboard

Hello  I must agree with Burnham and Dan..It is written everywhere that you always go buy the manufactures specs..And for many good reasons...On the common sense side I would never install baseray for one pipe steam..A 6 footer pitched 1/4 in per foot would look like the installer forgot his level and  had one too many at lunch...As far as the one you have and it works..steam systems work for 75 to 100 years so after that I guess you could say it woks but its still crooked...I hope I helped as that is my intention  J A

stupid quwstions

@ August 25, 2011 12:54 PM in after the dead men and before Dan

I kinda agree there are no stupid questions.however that depends on who the question comes from....New guys, ask away, but please read first...I cant stand the people who use the excuse I am bad with books but good with my hands...Today there  are many visual aids to learn from....My point is a little two fold...If your out bidding a job that say is around 6k you best know what your getting into, and hopefully your a seasoned guy to boot, asking stupid questions after you bid a job is a stupid question....you and the customer will lose evey time...Him awake at night listening to banging and you awake at night answering his calls and trying to figure out what you did wrong...Call backs cost dearly,don't they...Now you find yourself unable to go into you regular supply house because you owe him money......I cant say enough about proper training....Its out here...