Heating Help

It is not mystical, it is real

@ September 17, 2012 11:08 PM in Two-Stage firing on WM 580

condensing steamers have been around for quite some time now.

I've run much lower than that

@ September 17, 2012 11:07 PM in Two-Stage firing on WM 580

on a slant fin with the Power flame xm burner.    I was at least down to 30%.  At the low firing rates you have to watch out for the gas flow going laminar in the heat exchanger.  This happens quite suddenly as flow drops and then efficiency drops suddenly.   However, I have never gotten there yet on the boilers I have worked on. 30 % minimum rate is pretty standard in the industry.  The Power flame tended to run with alot of excess air at the bottom end, but combustion test efficiency improved.
When they were running the New radial burner in the Peerless, combustion efficiencies were around 86% at low fire with fairly tight excess air. STack temp was under 300F, IIRC.  However, the boiler was a 2 million btu boiler and they were running the burner at 100,000 btu/hr.

Burner

@ September 17, 2012 3:07 PM in Two-Stage firing on WM 580

The burners are run regularly in Peerless and Smith(?) steam boilers for testing, so thier use in a steamer is not an issue.  The burner is essentially the same as those found in most mod-con hw boilers, so the same precautions would apply, I suspect, regarding clean air supply. The burner head is only about 12 inches long in the small model, so they will fit most mid size to larger residential units.  Steamhead has a Slantfin TR-40 that he hopes to retrodit  withthis burner due to noise issues with the current "flame thrower".  I am working with a local controls company to come up with control packages for a fixed pressure mod output and an outdoor reset pressure with mod output.

Midco Radial burner

@ September 17, 2012 9:47 AM in Two-Stage firing on WM 580

These burners are available in two sizes.  100,000 to 500,000 input and 200,000 to 1,000,000 input.  A 2 million input model is currently in development.  I invited Steamhead to join me at Midco to look at these burners and we both agreed that they are a game changer for the steam heating industry.  We now have a very efficient modulating gas burner that cna be used in residential applications where noise is an issue.  (Chicago is completely dominated by huge atmospherics largely due to this issue) Since they are radial design, they have little burner roar and can have a remote air intake, so noise is drastically reduced from typical power burners. Also of great interest, is that they appear to produce much higher levels of radiant heat than equally sized power burners, so I would expect a nice bump in efficiency when these burners replace an equivalent "flame thrower" type burner.   There will probably be much better transfer of heat to the heat exchanger in the combustion chamber with these burners.

What I'd suggest

@ September 14, 2012 11:44 PM in Pumps vs Zone Valves

all of your radiators should use TRV's and a single pump.  Most wall hug radiators are designed to have the trv head snap right on.  thermostat installation takes about 20 seconds per zone and their is much less piping.
The radiant zones may be able to use TRV's if the tubing layout is correct and outdoor reset is used and would probably need a second pump
I can almost guarantee the boiler is grossly over sized,  I have a 1905 two story frame with 3200 sq ft of 8.5ft tall living space, 800sq ft of windows (700Sq ft original with storms)  and need less than 50,000 btuhr  gross output to heat my home in northern Illinois.

I think you really need to find someone that knows hydronics.  If your in Chicago, give me a call.  I have also been doing hot water for 20 years.

Yea...

@ September 11, 2012 2:42 PM in Two-Stage firing on WM 580

It's great to get the bump in combustion efficiency of a power burner, but the increased electrical usage( and complexity) can wipe out the gains.  This burner, however,  should help address that issue.

you may want to check this out...

@ September 11, 2012 12:51 PM in Two-Stage firing on WM 580

http://www.midcointernational.com/.
these are 5 to 1 mod burners with no burner roar.  The blower motor is an ECM  so electrical usage is a fraction of typical power burners.   Steamhead came into Chicago and we visited Midco together, and we both agreed that this burner is a game changer for the steam heating field.  It also runs very quiet quiet if you address the air intake noise (which can be ducted remotely).  Also, Midco tests these burners in Peerless steamers.   I am itching to get one of these in.

You had heard correctly...

@ September 10, 2012 5:48 PM in Header Connection Sizing

Welded swing joints are allowed on thier boilers, according to the manuals They are actually welded arms.  When in doubt, consult the manual.

You had heard correctly...

@ September 10, 2012 5:48 PM in Header Connection Sizing

Welded swing joints are allowed on thier boilers, according to the manuals They are actually welded arms.  When in doubt, consult the manual.

I think it does...

@ September 10, 2012 8:52 AM in Header Connection Sizing

The constant heating and cooling of the cast iron from short burner cycles must impact the stress caused by the welded header.  Even worse is the stress caused many more complete cool down and heat up cycles because the system fills so quickly with steam and then shuts off...if you are not maintaining constant steam pressure.  I've seen oversized gasketed section boilers start leaking in two or three years at the gaskets when combined with other causes of short cycling (improper thermostat settings and undersized transformers).

I believe Weil Permits this type of installation..

@ September 8, 2012 7:29 PM in Header Connection Sizing

as does smith (IIRC).  This is probably why I see Weils failing after only about 15 years at the gasketed connections. I don't think any other Cast Iron Manufacturer permits welded connections like this, though, and I certainly wouldn't do it.

In chicago, central heating appears much earlier....

@ September 8, 2012 10:02 AM in When did central heat become "normal"

Most of Chciago's housing stock was built by the 1930's, and all that I have been in have the original one pipe steam systems, even going back to about 1905.  I guess this is why Chicago is dominated by one pipe steam, it was installed much earlier than the two pipe systems in New York.   I wonder if this was driven by the fear of fires after the Chicago fire.  No frame structures were built in the city after the fire.

Quite Interesting.

Velocity...

@ September 8, 2012 9:55 AM in Header Connection Sizing

depends on teh boiler firing rate, the amount of radiation connected, and the air venting of the main/radiators.   An 8 inch header feeding a 5 inch supply is great, especially if the boiler is firing at the level matching the radiation!

The smaller boiler should be just fine...

@ September 8, 2012 9:46 AM in Boiler Sizing

you have a load of 255 EDR and the boiler can handle 271.  If they are lightweight copper/aluminum convectors, the pick up load is very light, so the 1.33 muliplier is probably very conservative, giving you even more extra capacity.

Peeling wallpaper

@ September 8, 2012 9:42 AM in rads too long & wrong

most likely indicates that the vents are leaking, or leaked at some time, and need to be replaced. Radiator vent failures are often caused by other problems, like supply piping too small for the radiator or the supply valve is partially closed, a boiler that is too big (too much heating power), too small of main vents, or the radiator is not sloped back to the supply valve.

That oversized doesn't surprise me.....

@ September 4, 2012 12:08 PM in Powerflame Burner Control

I replaced a 3.2 million input boiler that only has a 350,000 btu load. I've seen 12,000,000 btu boilers feeding only 3 million btu loads.  Most steamers I see are about double the size they need to be when sized by radiation plaus pick up factor.  Most burners are designed to drop to a minimum of about 1/3 maximum fire when retuned...Which would bring you to about 1.5 million input...Which is a whole lot better than what you have now.  Do those air hanndlers have to heat outdoor air for ventilation.  If they do, doubling the load is very likely.

Or another...

@ August 16, 2012 10:21 PM in Pipe plug "fixes" leaking PRV

The PRV was installed backwards.  I guess the tech didn't have a 3/4 coupling to install the male end of the relief valve on the end of the pipe.

Other helpful ideas....

@ August 13, 2012 10:28 AM in Drop Header Questions

When piping your takeoffs off the top of the header, make them oversized and then reduce down to the main size.  I often just make the takeoff tees the same size as the header then go up with a 6 inch nipple and then use a concentric reducer.  This will greatly reduce the velocity going into the takeoff and allow the water to stay down at the bottom of the header.  Also the spacing matters....at least 3 header diameters from the last boiler riser to the first take off, at least 2 diameters between takeoffs and between the last take off and the drip/ equalizer.  These spacings halp make sure the water settles in the bottom of the header after each high velcity transition.

Probably not needed....

@ August 10, 2012 8:28 AM in one pipe steam

I have removed so many condensate pumps or boiler feed pumps that weren't needed.  Unless there is something wrong with the system, they are rarely needed.  The typical problems with a systems that cause water to return slow are inadequete main venting ( steam doesn't reach the end of the mains quickly, so water can't return quickly),  and plugged up return lines.  Both of these should be fixed...... a return pump just masks these problems.

One other thought

@ July 23, 2012 4:35 PM in Zone system (fire away)

You should be able to reduce the amount of capacity for the pick up factor since it is very unlikely that all three zones would call at the same time, so the load will be much lighter during piping warm up.

More work to do...

@ July 22, 2012 6:05 PM in Zone system (fire away)

I would find out what the actual heat loss is per zone, especially the two smallest.    If they are about 50% of the radiation capacity, you could just use an alternating timer on the two small zones, each would get 1/2 hour to run, while the other is held off.  Some relays that can delay opening of a new zone when the other two are running could also work. 
I understand there are two stage oil burners available, you just have to look for them

Probably not usable

@ July 21, 2012 9:23 AM in Can these convert to hot water?

You are probably right, those look like just spacer stand off at the top.  Also, most readiators of that vintage in one pipe steam systems were steam only.