Joined on August 25, 2004
Last Post on December 6, 2013
@ August 21, 2013 3:26 PM in New Carbon Monoxide StudiesA recent study has shown that drywall does not keep car fumes out of homes. If you plan on running your car in the garage you need to find a different material.
(Okay, I added the last line but it seemed to be implied)
CPSC funded a year long study and found that running gasoline power generators in you house can be dangerous and deadly.
(I think it took a year to complete the study because the testers kept being overcome by some type of illness)
I am betting using barbecue grills indoors might be the next study released, but I hear they are having a problem finding volunteers.
@ August 9, 2013 8:34 PM in Gas Conversion BurnersWhen you are talking about inspectors you are talking about egotesticle(I didn;t spell this wrong, its a new word) authoritative, mechanical morons. Theyare that way in many parts of the country. Once in a while you may find an intelligent one but I doubt it. I am in Minnesota right now and the constractors have been telling me about the idiots that inspect their jobs and their opinionated, non-practical requirements. I put up with it in Cincy. It is impossible to expect any of them to have common sense or anything else. My inspectors told me they didn;t accept AGA as an authority many years ago?
Manufacturers commit to nothing. Back in the 80's they tried to void their warranties when we added spark ignition and flue dampers. They will dismiss their warranty if you use a wrong screw.
I keep hearing if something goes wrong what will happen. What is going to go wrong. I sold gas conversion burner in the 70's,80's & 90's for oil boilers by the bushel. Nothing has gone wrong yet.
Wasn't there a post on here about a water heater that was exploding. One of you came out and modified a design flaw and it worked perfectly. When the manufacturer came out he made you change it back and it exploded again. They turned their backs and walked away. The home owner had to buy another make.
Whose approval is on the burner? Maybe they need to be called and told your local authority doesn't accept their certification. Maybe the burner manufacturer needs to be questioned about false advertising. Could this be a restraint of trade? I hate when stupid people rule!!!
Once a boiler leaves the plant the manufacturer doesn't own it and has nothing to say about it other than warranty. The only thing in warranty is the boiler sections and there is no way a gas burner is going to hurt them if an oil burner didn't. They fire with a lower flame temperature. Anyone afraid of what might happen needs to figure out what they are doing wrong because only a mistake by them could cause a problem.
Does doing something on a job that is code approved guarantee nothing will happen? Are we afraid? Most the jobs I see that cause problems are code and manufacturer approved which would be about 99%.
An Inspector wouldn't know safe if it hit him in the face.
The manufacturer says he not reponsible for alterations and modifications, nor should he be, that is our job. Doesn't that statement in their instuctions tell us we can do it as long as we are responsible? Aren't we anyway?
At least three of us know the drill. Don't be afraid to do your job!!
@ July 15, 2013 10:11 AM in Beckett AFG StallsIf you have a 2-line system the problem is simple, you are losing prime. If that is a newer burner with the interrupted spark I would expect this to happen. I don't recommend either one. Need to go to single line or constant(intermiitent) spark.
@ July 12, 2013 12:12 PM in Medical Examiner in Utah amazed!Aguy dies from CO poisoning boating on Lake Powell and the Medical Examiner was quoted to say "That is really unusual because he was boating on an OUTDOOR lake!" Do some places have indoor lakes?
@ July 12, 2013 12:04 PM in Travel Carbon Monoxide DetectorThe sensorcon is good and durable. Low level CO monitors that are battery powered are good also.
@ July 12, 2013 12:00 PM in White Smoke after shutdownEven if there is after drip the smoke shouldn't be coming out the front of the burner, it should be going up the flue. So you either have some combustion air issues or possibly a wet chimney.
An oil burner will suck all the combustion air it needs when running, however if there are negative pressure problems that will cease when the burner shuts down. The key is the draft reading, above the baromtric, when the burner shuts down. If the draft disappears within seconds after the burner shuts down the above is your problem.
This is where monitoring CO not CO2 during the Light-off(spike) Run and Shutdown(spike) can be very helpful. The smoke may just be what was in the flue when it shut down and it came back in. The smoke is white because it is mostly clean and contains water.
Combustion air problems are sometimes as easy as adding a supply register to the plenum. A wet flue problem usually means there is no flue cap or the furnace is underfiring and condensing.
If there was a hole in the heat exchanger the smoke would be coming out the whole time not just at the end.. CO readings, Flue T and draft readings can easily solve this problem versus just guessing which has already been done.
If I was guessing I would say the furnace is sending out smoke signals for help!!
@ July 9, 2013 7:49 AM in combustion analyzerPual,
Go www.nationalcomfortinstitute.com for the schedule. Also you can call me anytime and I can fill you in on the class or any other questions.
@ July 8, 2013 2:46 PM in combustion analyzerPaul, Excess Air is a calculation off of the O2 reading. If your O2 is 3% your excess air is 15%. If your O2 is 5% your excess air is 30%. It is just another way of saying O2.
Most regulations for CO and how much equipment can make are based on "Air Free" CO calculations. 400ppm "Air Free" CO is the standard for commercial and industrial flues. It is also the same level for all ventied residential heating appliances. Using "Air Free" to tune equipment can leave it lean unless you shoot for higher numbers. Some say set burners for 100ppm "as read" others say 100ppm "Air Free" Actually you shouldn't set burners for either one. They should be set for the lowest O2 and the best flue temperature(not the lowest.) CO is monitored and is the brakes as far as fuel air mixture. If the CO gets above 100ppm "as read' or 120ppm "Air Free" you should stop.
On a 3-pass boiler making 180 degree hot water should have a flue temperature no lower than 350 degrees or it is underfired and inefficient. A 4-pass boiler would run closer to 300 degrees.
I sold Power Flame burner for years and they set up fairly nice if they are firing towards the top of their capacity. 3% O2 in high fire pretty common. Low fire needs a little more air 5% to 6%. Flue temperatures are based on the type of equipment, what it is making, and the firing rate. It is not fixed but should be in a range,
With the glut of natural gas these days I would think gas companies would penalize you for having dual fuel. In the 70,s, 80,s, and 90,s you got special pricing if there were fuel curtailments. Didn't know they still did that.
There sometimes is a trick for setting up dual fuel burners to make them automatic change over. I'm guessing some of these new direct coupled electronic controllers can make those adjustments today?
Planning on being in northern NJ in September, maybe? Will know better next month.
@ July 3, 2013 2:45 PM in combustion analyzerI have had techs in many classes that had combustion analyzers for years and didn't know what most of the readings really mean and which ones are bogus.
O2 - Oxygen is air which starts at 20.9%. The rest of the air that goes into the burner is Nitrogen at 79%.
The amount of O2 that goes into the burner is controlled by draft and the amount of air that is used is determined by how much fuel is being burned. If the O2 reading is above 9% the appliance is way underfired and totally inefficient,
If the O2 gets too to low then there is too much fuel, assuming the flue and combustion air are good. In this casse CO will be excessive along with the flue temperature. Everything has to be in as specific range or it is not performing correctly. Most manufacturers do not provide the complete list of combustion numbers that are needed on their equipment.
CO and CO "air free".
CO is the actual measurement that your analyzer is reading, which includes the O2 it is mixed with. It is assumed all this air is outside the flame and dilutes the CO in the flame.
CO "air free" is a theoretical calculation of CO directly in the flame with no additonal excess air or O2. Although used by many it is not real. It assumes perfect combustion exists in the flame.
The CO2 reading is calculated and assumes the Btus of fuel never changes which is not true.
The efficiency calculation is usually bogus and can be anywhere from 10% to 50% off.
Knowing how to intepret analyzer readings takes training. As long as the CO is low there is a chance no one will get injured from it, but not necessarily.
@ June 20, 2013 9:21 AM in Same hotel room strikes again?Hate to say it but they are just bad designs or would it be better to say just not a good functional mechanical design. Poor installation is rarely the real problem but that is the best excuse the untrained can come up with.
I just figured this out last year based on an add I received for ANSI certification standards, but the reason they don't put spill switches on equipment is because they are afraid it won't work.
I don't know in the 35 years of my testing and I have done hundreds of hotels, that I even found one working totally safe. Okay, I did test one in Kentucky a year ago that was induced draft and it did test safe. If the recommendations I made were performed it will stay that way. Because of location and just dumb luck they haven't killed more people. But I guarantee many have been poisoned in hotels and didn't know it.
@ June 19, 2013 9:47 AM in Strange residue in Giannoni heat exchangerHas anyone tried to increase the timing on the inducer when the boilers shut down?
Anytime I had any gas induced draft appliance or forced draft, if the post-purge wasn't at least 3 minutes there were problems.
This cannot be provided by the manufacturer because of the penalty deduction from their AFUE rating.
This is hard to do on variable speed inducers but most here are smart enough to figure it out.
@ June 19, 2013 9:32 AM in Must be a meteor shower out thereAfter the CO poisoning in Boone, NC., a reporter stated that the chance of getting CO poisoned in a hotel was the same odds as getting hit by a meteor. Stay inside or you will get hit!
Why? Because on June 14 some guest at a NJ, Holiday Inn Express got poisoned, and on June 17 more people got poisoned at a Travel Lodge at Wisconsin Dells. I am not sure the group home in Parkville, MD qualifies as a hotel but it happend there also. That was more like a nursing home with just old people so that doesn't really count as much.
My son a Captain in the fire department ask me the other day if things are as bad as they were 25 years ago(he actually sat through my CO class then). I said I don't know if they are any worse, but they sure aren't much better. I think stupid has gotten worse.
@ June 14, 2013 4:31 PM in Greatest Co threat?Natural gas does burn much cleaner than gasoline and does give people the ability to actually tune the equipment like any natural gas appliance or even propane ones. I guess the gasoline ones could ber tuned but apparentlky no one knows how. Natural gas does put out a smell if it is running bad enough.
@ June 14, 2013 11:03 AM in Same hotel room strikes again?Well initially the old couple died from old age but after the 11 year old boy died they decided to look at the lab work a little closer. Just an example of how CO poisoning is misdiagnosed over and over and over.
It was a pool heater. One of those killed someone in a hotel in West Virginia just a few months ago. Anyone in my class might remember I list pool heaters as #1 most dangerous appliance.
One TV reporter said that getting poisoned in a hotel is about as common as getting hit by a meteor. Well there must be a lot of meteors falling right now because a hotel in NJ was just evacuated today because of CO. The police reported a bad pool pump. Some one else to add to the list of CO ignorant,
Do you think when you check into a hotel you need to find out where the pool heater is and get a room as far away as possible.
@ June 4, 2013 4:41 PM in AFG which pump pressure and nozzle size100# pressure for oil is based on oil being heated to 100 degrees. Keep the .85 nozzle and raise the pressure. Underfiring does nothing but increase fuel usage.
@ June 4, 2013 4:37 PM in CO poisoning in Idaho[u][color=#0000ff]http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/05/31/2597508/property-warned-about-deadly-gas.html[/color][/u]
This sounds like another great CO situation. How do you think the contractor will fair. The water heaters were dangerous and he left them running, But he did notify the proper people. Well, all but one marine.
What about the Supreme Court of Minnesota being added to the list of state courts for approving insurance companies the right to refuse to pay CO claims because of their exclusion pollution clause.
@ May 15, 2013 8:31 AM in Hotel COIn the last 4 days there have been 3 CO incidents at hotels - Reno, Lancaster, Pa., and Oshkosh, Wi. The fact that it is getting close to vacation time it might be a good idea to pack a CO detector in your suitcase.
@ May 15, 2013 8:28 AM in Draft hood retrofit on standing pilot appliances?Most water heater gas valves have a fixed, non-adjustable gas valve. The barometric controls air so that it is stable under all conditions.
@ May 3, 2013 8:04 AM in Strange CO problemCO2 will not cause a false CO alarm but instead it will prevent it by blocking CO from getting to it.
@ April 30, 2013 8:51 AM in Draft hood retrofit on standing pilot appliances?Sometimes there is not always savings on a residential water because there are no adjustments. However, depending on how the drafthood was performing there can be. Sometimes the drafthood acts like its not even there.and over vents. The thing here is safety and wear and tear on the water heater. Safety being #1. Water heaters lead the nation in CO poisonings although they are rarely recognized until someone dies.
@ April 19, 2013 1:45 PM in Strange CO problemThat was now an apparent domestic quarrel and the husband barricaded himself in the garage. They say the family died trying to save him. Their attempts were unsuccessful.
@ April 18, 2013 1:10 PM in Strange CO problemYes I have had my customer and students call and say their personal CO monitors went off in their truck and they found leaking tanks. acetylene, propane.