Heating Help

JPF, you inspired me

@ February 17, 2010 3:07 PM in searching the wall

JPF, your Google homepage comment made me remember that since I subscribe to the Wall via the Google Reader, I could use that search window. I got 27 hits for "radiator leak -vent" (without the quotes). The downside is that I can search only what's been posted since I added the Wall to G-reader. Still not the steamy goodness I had hoped for, but it's a start.

searching the wall

@ February 17, 2010 1:29 PM in searching the wall

Last night I discovered that one of my radiators is leaking at the bottom. I wanted to search the wall and see what's been posted in the past. I tried the built in search function, but couldn't get any useful results. I tried the site restricted Google link JFP kindly provided, but had the opposite problem. Search for just "radiator" in Strictly Steam yielded 25 results. I know there are more than that. And when I clicked on the results link, I never got taken to the proper results. What am I do wrong?

I'm certainly open to tips/suggestions about the radiator, but I figured if I could get the searching down, it would be like teaching me to fish instead of giving me one. Or something like that.

Very Clever!

@ February 15, 2010 11:45 AM in Mission Impossible?

Thanks, Nicholas. That's a very clever solution. I'll have to look into it. I appreciate the idea, especially since the monkey doesn't seem to be working out. He goes bananas for steam, but he refuses to work for peanuts. (groan)

Thanks,

Brian

Mission Impossible?

@ February 14, 2010 3:13 PM in Mission Impossible?

With lots of help from the Wall, I've quieted my vapor system down tremendously--except for the addition ("sunroom"). This addition has baseboard heating around the exterior perimeter. I think it has two supplies and two returns, but it might have only one supply. There are traps on both of the returns, and these traps were just replaced along with all the other traps. I don't think that the supplies are insulated. The hammering at the beginning of the cycle would seem to confirm that.

As you can see, I don't know a lot about the situation. Why not? Because the addition was built on a slab and there is almost no access to the underneath. There is one opening to it in the basement that's maybe 2x1 (think upper 1/4 of a basement window). I thought about cutting the joist where the supply pipes run through and "feeding" the insulation in 1' pieces, but the thermal expansion noises I hear make me think that the pipe is too close to the subfloor or joist for me to do this. The pipe also goes up after it passes through the joist (see photo).

I've got the pressure down and added main vents, both of which helped a bit.

Aside from ripping up the flooring or hiring a trained monkey, any ideas?

I'll see how this does

@ February 11, 2010 1:35 PM in A marble in my vapor valve?

I don't actually use the valves anyway, although it would be a shame to replace it with a modern one. This is one of the few remaining original valves in the house. I guess on the bright side, that means I can still get something that will fit.

Thanks for your help, Jamie.

Normally that's what gets me into trouble.

@ February 11, 2010 1:19 PM in A marble in my vapor valve?

I found ye olde broken and loose part. I'm going to cut it off and reassemble. Any ideas where I can get a replacement? I suspect this is deep into NLA land.

I think it's a well-kept secret

@ February 11, 2010 8:39 AM in contractor needed

I live near Cincinnati, and I couldn't find anyone either. If I needed someone, I'd be tempted to try these folks: http://www.steamsystems.com/

I bought my traps from them and I believe they have repair people.

(I hope this is okay for me to mention. I have no connection with this company beyond one purchase. I did mention this site to one employee but he's not there anymore)

There's a nut under the ring.

@ February 10, 2010 8:38 PM in A marble in my vapor valve?

I'll try loosing that tomorrow, when the stores are open. What am I looking for? Or is this just a look and see?

A marble in my vapor valve?

@ February 10, 2010 6:15 PM in A marble in my vapor valve?

One of my radiators has been making a noise that sounds like a marble in boiling water (anyone else's mother do that?). Today I listened to it with my mechanic's stethoscope. The sound seems to be loudest from the control valve (it's a vapor system). Could the cause be the valve? If so, what should I do? Just replace it? (Yeah, I know, that's a mighty big "just")Here's the valve (handle removed):

I guess that's it exactly.

@ February 10, 2010 6:05 PM in Steam history question

At least when I looked at the answers, there were two. The first was "pro-steam/hot water." The second was rip out anything older than 10 years and put something new in. If these two people represent typical Americans, then it's astonishing that something that half of America prefers is found in less than 15% of the homes. It might be some awesome marketing, as Polycarp suggested. I guess it could be A/C, but my house has A/C added to the vapor system. It could also be the cost as several people mentioned, but I would think that more than 15% of America would be willing to spend more money to get something that they preferred.

As always, thanks to everyone who replied. I always learn a great deal on the Wall.

So it comes down to labor

@ February 9, 2010 11:34 AM in Steam history question

Thanks, Jamie. If I've understood you, what happened was that the population boom exceeded the availability of skilled labor--houses were needed faster than the craftsman could put them up. This probably drove up the cost of labor, so folks invented or improved simpler to use materials like forced air and drywall to keep costs down.

I think the same thing happened with cars. Why don't our cars have the two or three dozen grease fittings that they had in the 1970s? It became too expensive to have someone lube them all every 3,000 miles. So we invented sealed bearings and the like.

Still not sure I buy the "didn't know any better" explanation, though. GI Joe & Jane's first house probably did have forced air but they probably grew up with radiators, no? I say, follow the price of skilled labor.

We have those at work

@ February 9, 2010 8:49 AM in Steam history question

Makes me sick just to think about it.

We have those at work

@ February 9, 2010 8:49 AM in Steam history question

Makes me sick just to think about it.

When did this happen?

@ February 9, 2010 8:49 AM in Steam history question

I'm probably being stubborn, but I can't imagine that nearly everyone went with the cheapest installation price. But I think that's why drywall replaced plaster. Still, I'd like to imagine that a certain percentage of the population--who had grown up with radiators--wouldn't want to give them up for the new fangled forced air.

I'll have to look

@ February 8, 2010 9:30 PM in glass guage help

I think I know the area you're talking about. I'll have to look next time I'm there. I think that I see the air filters on the end and so I keep walking.

I know what you mean about the mess. I probably find stuff in the wrong bin just as often as the right one.

Steam history question

@ February 8, 2010 9:26 PM in Steam history question

I was never interested in or fond of history until I read TLAOSH. I'm still puzzled by the rapid change from steam/hot water to forced air. I would guess that at its peak in popularity, steam and hot water were used in 80% or more of the homes in the US. I remember reading recently that now all non-forced air forms of heating combined account for 15%. Why did nearly everyone change? Was it because of the development of air conditioning?

I've looked for an answer on the web, but all I can find is the claim that natural gas and electricity caused the demise of coal and of steam/hot water heating. The coal part makes sense (no more fires to stoke) but not the steam/hot water part. Does anyone know the answer?

Wow. Must be a NYC thing

@ February 8, 2010 7:23 PM in glass guage help

Here (SW Ohio), I feel lucky if I leave Lowe's with all the black pipe fittings I came in to get. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I go over in the plumbing section. Is there a secret steam heating aisle you have to know the password to get to?

But take into account where you are

@ February 8, 2010 1:49 PM in glass guage help

JPF is right that it's easy to take out the sight glass and clean it, but I would keep in mind where you are in terms of steam supplies. I'm not a risk taker and have no local source for parts, so before I did this I made sure I had an extra glass and some gaskets on hand. I still have 'em. I don't think it's the end of the world if you break the glass and don't have an extra on hand since you can just keep it shut. Just don't forget to replace it asap.

Maybe you're like JPF and live near a great source or two, in which can you can ignore this.

I wouldn't

@ February 8, 2010 1:02 PM in glass guage help

I'd feel better if a pro chimed in here, but here are my homeowner's thoughts.

The rust is not actually a problem. It might be a symptom of something. It might just be normal. Until you figure out whether your system actually has a problem I would not drain and refill it. I just don't think it's worth messing with in the middle of February. Moreover, adding water to an empty but hot boiler can be deadly. Again, not worth it.

If it were me, I'd do blow downs twice a week and both from the LWCO and the drain for a couple of weeks and see if it gets any better. This is assuming that you're already doing them once a week. You'll need to clean the sight glass, too, if you want to see whether you're making progress.

But check it when it's cold

@ February 8, 2010 12:35 PM in Water dripping from steam pipe

JFP had a very good idea about checking the sight glass. I wouldn't have thought of it. But now that he's mentioned it, I'd like to add two thoughts. First, the system may have purged itself of enough water that your gauge won't be completely full. Second, try to check it when the system is as cold as possible. I like to check my the instant the thermostat clicks on since that's the maximal off time for that cycle.

Thanks JPF

@ February 8, 2010 10:20 AM in Water dripping from steam pipe

But I think it might be more a case of even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day. Thanks for the link to the article. It made me feel better about not having an autofeeder. Glad there's a way to correct the problem, too.

Maybe a photograph would help

@ February 8, 2010 10:16 AM in glass guage help

I'm not sure I understand what's coming coming down your sight glass. If it's not wet, it's not condensate (water). If it's debris, then it's probably rust particles and not steam. I think we could help you better with a photograph of the sight glass.

Whatever it is, I suspect that a likely candidate is dirty boiler water. If you do not do regular blow downs, you might want to start there. Some folks will tell you to "skim" the boiler, but I do not know how to do that well enough to tell you. You can search this site for "blow down" and "skim" to get more information about those procedures.

Be sure to check out the books available under the "shop" menu as well as the snippets from the books you can read under "systems."