Heating Help

air is everywhere... :)

@ February 3, 2012 8:06 AM in Where does the air come from??

Steam systems are not closed systems. they need to breath. If they were totally closed then the steam would not be able to push the air out, so they are open to the atmosphere.

TRV uses a straight valve

@ February 2, 2012 9:11 AM in No. 6 Gorton (G6S8) and other STRAIGHT valves

Hi again,
The TRV itself uses a straight valve. The valve just screws into the TRV with the TRV acting as an elbow so using a straight valve should work.
Yes, the radiator in question is on the second floor with a radiator on the same pipe on the first floor. Both have the same TRV.
Getting a picture of the pipes in the cellar is a bit difficult as that area is not easily accessable.
I will see what I can do and post some pics.
This is the radiator upstairs. the one downstairs has the same TRV on it.

might actually work as straight

@ February 1, 2012 2:46 PM in No. 6 Gorton (G6S8) and other STRAIGHT valves

I currently have a Danfoss Thermostatic Radiator valve on this radiator so I guess I could just replace the straight valve on that with a straight Gortons and that should work. For a long time I was thinking of putting a main air vent in front of the radiator, but this might work and be much easier to do than having to re-pipe in front of the radiator.

No. 6 Gorton (G6S8) and other STRAIGHT valves

@ February 1, 2012 1:45 PM in No. 6 Gorton (G6S8) and other STRAIGHT valves

Hi,
I was thinking of adding a No. 6 Gorton (G6S8) to increase the venting capability of one of my second floor radiators (it is the the last one on it's branch of pipe) and was wondering - all the Gorton values seem to be straight. Does that mean I need a 90 degree elbow to be able to use them on my radiators or can they be screwed it directly as they are?

Installing Main air vents

@ January 13, 2011 1:07 PM in Installing Main air vents

Tomorrow I am having my annual steam system maintenance done and in addition to that some main air vents installed.

I spent a lot of time in determining where they should go. I am hoping that the contractor reaches the same conclusion.

I have 13 radiators. Nine of these are one pipe with counter flow and 4 are two pipe without an F&T traps or thermostatic vents on the returns. these 4 are all off of the same main and in essence seem to function as one pipe radiators. I have been getting at times steam into the returns so here is what I am planning to have done.

Install main air vents at the end of the mains for the "normal" one pipe radiators.

The 4 two pipe radiators all have thier returns pipes flow into a single return pipe (they all feed from a single supply and end up in a single return), so I am planning of having a main air vent installed right where the 4 returns reduce to a single return and between that and the boiler a 5 foot water seal as described on page 106 of "We Got Steam Heat". I figure that way all the radiators will have a main vent and the water seal will prevent steam from backing into the returns.

Al it is, with all the supply valves open on these 4 radiators I do not have any problems (no water hammer), but if the supply valve is closed a bit I did notice the radiators will heat from both sides and be cold in the middle. So, obviously I am getting steam through the returns. With the supply valves totally open and the air vents on the radiators (I know... not sure if they should be there with this 2-pipe hybrid ) set to vent very slow I am getting good heat.

What does everyone think?

Thanks!

Installing Main air vents

@ January 13, 2011 1:07 PM in Installing Main air vents

Tomorrow I am having my annual steam system maintenance done and in addition to that some main air vents installed.

I spent a lot of time in determining where they should go. I am hoping that the contractor reaches the same conclusion.

I have 13 radiators. Nine of these are one pipe with counter flow and 4 are two pipe without an F&T traps or thermostatic vents on the returns. these 4 are all off of the same main and in essence seem to function as one pipe radiators. I have been getting at times steam into the returns so here is what I am planning to have done.

Install main air vents at the end of the mains for the "normal" one pipe radiators.

The 4 two pipe radiators all have thier returns pipes flow into a single return pipe (they all feed from a single supply and end up in a single return), so I am planning of having a main air vent installed right where the 4 returns reduce to a single return and between that and the boiler a 5 foot water seal as described on page 106 of "We Got Steam Heat". I figure that way all the radiators will have a main vent and the water seal will prevent steam from backing into the returns.

Al it is, with all the supply valves open on these 4 radiators I do not have any problems (no water hammer), but if the supply valve is closed a bit I did notice the radiators will heat from both sides and be cold in the middle. So, obviously I am getting steam through the returns. With the supply valves totally open and the air vents on the radiators (I know... not sure if they should be there with this 2-pipe hybrid ) set to vent very slow I am getting good heat.

What does everyone think?

Thanks!

What kind of Main Air Vent?

@ November 28, 2010 11:58 PM in Main Air Vent missing

Assuming that I  get a bushing and a coupler to install a main air vent, which air vent would be the best to install?

 

Main Air Vent missing

@ November 28, 2010 10:00 PM in Main Air Vent missing

Hi,

I have been searching for the longest time where my main air vent is located and have come to the conclusion that I do not have one.

Then it hit me,... In my foyer I have a capped steam pipe that come out right next to one of the radiators. It is at the end of one of the longest runs. Could it be that this is where the main vent should be?

Attached is a photo I took.

Any ideas what kind of air vent I could install on this? Any problem with it being in my foyer?

@ June 9, 2009 11:05 PM in My Steam System oddities

Thanks for your reply. I have not been able to have my near boiler piping re-done for the same reasons I am getting told that a new gas stove would be the way to go. A lot of Knuckleheads around here. There are no steam professionals near my area. I am in Waterloo, NY in the middle of the Finger Lakes. As for the size of my boiler, I have the 1608HSID and after measuring the connected radiation I have about a 20,000 BTU overhead. So, I think that the boiler is actually a bit undersized... The house has 4727 square feet, but about 1000 square feet in not heated currently. (There is a forces air furnace for that area, but that is a disaster in itself) I have been insulating the steam pipes, so that I am at least getting done. I set up a new site for the house. You can see it at web.me.com/gewithers

adding heat to a 1,000 square feet adition

@ June 9, 2009 3:19 PM in My Steam System oddities

I contacted my local heating contractor and asked about piping a hot waster zone off of my steam boiler and they said I would be better off installing a separate gas stove instead. The next contractor wanted to put in a new forced air furnace. Neither one of them had any experience or inclination to want to attempt to pipe a hot water zone off of the stream boiler. It seems hard to find anyone around here that knows how to do this.

@ March 5, 2009 7:46 AM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

I am in Waterloo, NY in the middle of the fingerlakes. Here a google maps link. If you go to street view you can see my house. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=115+E+Main+St,+Waterloo,+NY+13165&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.223579,77.958984&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr

@ March 4, 2009 2:45 PM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

That was one of the things I was wondering. I am open to a hot water zone for this room. Taking 1/3 of the 161k BTUs for a Hot water zone would leave me with 54K BTU for the Hot water zone. That sounds like it should be enough to heat that room. As for the heat loss difference between this room and the rest of the house I kinda have that covered by using thermostatic radiator values in the old part of the house that would prevent it from overheating when trying to heat this big room. Sad thing is there is not a plocal contractor within 100 miles that knows steam.

@ March 4, 2009 8:01 AM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

From what I can calculate it seems the heat lost of that room alone is about 20,000 BTU an hour as it currently stands.

@ March 3, 2009 4:58 PM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

That would mean repairing the furnace, which is something I really do not want to do. I do not really want to run a boiler AND a furnace. I have not run the thing at all in 3 years.

@ March 3, 2009 1:26 PM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

The windows are single pane. The doors need to be replaced. I do have 4 ceiling fans int he room to push down heat. the main problem with the force air furnace is that it did not really put any heat into the room at all. The air was cold by the time it got to the registers.

@ March 3, 2009 1:14 PM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

I am not sure of how many BTUS the force air furnace has, but based upon the fact that the air that comes out of the ducts never really was warm at all I doubt that it really matters how many it has. I would be surprised if it had a 40% efficiency.

Extending Steam into the rest of the house

@ March 3, 2009 12:49 PM in Expanding Steam into the rest of the house

Hi everyone, I have an 800 square foot extension we call the "Ballroom" into which I am considering extending the steam heat into from the rest of the house. The room in question has a separate forced air furnace, but after trying to use it the first winter we moved in, I vowed never again. It was not able to get the room above 55 degrees on a normal cold winter day. It has 13 foot ceilings and multiple french doors to the outside, so I am sure the heat loss of this room is pretty bad. Anyway, in trying to gauge if I even can extend the steam out to this room. I calculated the total EDR and BTU usage of my current steam system and this is what I came up with. I have 13 radiators with a total EDR of 590 requiring 141,765 BTU's of steam to heat all of them (which we never really do.). This was for the radiators only. I did not calulate anthing yet for piping. I have a Pennco boiler 1608HSID which has a net IBR rating of 161 and 671 Sq. Ft. of net radiation. I ordered the EDR book. Until then I used http://www.colonialsupply.com/resources/radiator3.htm to do the calculations. I have 2 radiators in storage one with a EDR of 52 and the other with 84. So here are my questions? How much EDR would I really need to heat that room? Would I need a bigger boiler? Can I make it work by downsizing some of my current radiators and shift the load? Is a hot water zone an option for me? I would rather run just one boiler that have something seperate for that room. Any ideas/comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks

@ January 18, 2009 12:04 AM in My Steam System oddities

I plan on insulating the pipes. I had my local heating guy over and he advised against it. He said I would loose to much heat rising from the cellar.

@ January 17, 2009 12:51 PM in Shutting off 2nd floor rads?

Sounds like you could use some Thermostatic radiator valves to help push the steam to the radiators that you want the heat at. I installed them in my 160 year old brick house and they have helped greatly to get an even distribution of heat.

Here are some pictures

@ January 17, 2009 12:39 PM in My Steam System oddities

Here are some pictures of my boiler and some of the piping. I was not able to find any main vents anywhere. As you can see, I inherited copper pipes from the previous owner.

Here are some pics

@ January 17, 2009 12:27 PM in My Steam System oddities

Here are some of the pictures I promised, just a bit late.

@ January 6, 2009 12:25 PM in Nightly setback

Hm... my thermostat does not actually kick in until the time I have it set at. It does not do a warm-up phase like you describe. It seems that when I get up in the morning the thermostat is often still in the low 60's so the major parts of the house may actually never get to 56. The ballroom however freezes over, but that is another issue....